Why do workers vote Liberal?

[Ned_Flanders]

people care about how much money they see in their pay packet at the end of the week

your average worker has a lot more control over their consumption than their income, especially in times of stagnant wages growth

bizarre I have to explain this to a Labor man

bizzare i know people actually focus on how much is left in their pocket at the end of the week, not at the beginning of it

working people especially focus on this because they have to watch their pennies

 

[Caesar]

bizzare i know people actually focus on how much is left in their pocket at the end of the week, not at the beginning of it

working people especially focus on this because they have to watch their pennies

personal income tax is the most difficult tax going around for your average worker to minimise, and the easiest for the rich - no idea why you would defend a high rate of personal taxation in the revenue base in general, and the ALP charging higher personal tax than the Coalition on lower-mid income earners specifically

no wonder the labor is so far into the wilderness when it comes to average working people

 

[Ned_Flanders]

personal income tax is the most difficult tax going around for your average worker to minimise, and the easiest for the rich - no idea why you would defend a high rate of personal taxation in the revenue base in general, and the ALP charging higher personal tax than the Coalition on lower-mid income earners specifically

no wonder the labor is so far into the wilderness when it comes to average working people

this coming from the guy wanting big cuts in the NDIS

does labour tax more? yes, but thats because they dont consider the elderly, the disabled, and at risk kids leaners who have to get a real job

 

[Caesar]

does labour tax lower-to-middle class workers more? yes

fixed that for you

of course labor will always have higher taxes but you'd think they'd make the rich end of town pay

if they keep slugging the average worker, who is going to vote for them?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

fixed that for you

of course labor will always have higher taxes but you'd think they'd make the rich end of town pay

if they keep slugging the average worker, who is going to vote for them?

this is where you are a massive hypocrite

you say tax the rich, but you were captain franking credits in the election

funny how every suggestion you have for labour is to guarantee liberal victory

 

[MC Bad Genius]

A lot of answers have already been covered but a big one in Australia is hip pocket voting

Australia is the second-highest taxing country in the world and at the last election, the ALP did not come close to matching the Coalition's tax cuts for low-to-middle income earners ($40-$120K)

Who do you think middle-income families being squeezed on wages growth are going to vote for in that situation?

The ALP can promise anything they like, but until they reassure workers that they won't come after their shrinking paycheques they will never get their votes

Are you (or someone else) able to copy in the article from your first link? It's behind a paywall.

Without that, I can't argue anything about the article per se, but I don't disagree with the underlying point you're making that most people inevitably vote for their own hip pocket first and foremost.

One of the most cringeworthy articles I've ever read

**** off all the culinary sh*t for starters and start again, should be chucked into the good food guide under the acquired tastes section

I actually thought it was a pretty insightful read, but maybe the tongue/tastes analogy was a bit patronising.

What did you think about the underlying points around the difference between left-wing people and right-wing people in how they choose to vote based on different weightings of the 5 value spectrums their research identified?

 

[Caesar]

this is where you are a massive hypocrite

you say tax the rich, but you were captain franking credits in the election

funny how every suggestion you have for labour is to guarantee liberal victory

franking credits was a dumb policy move because it didn't just target the rich - the rich get most of the benefit, but a million Australians got the franking credit refund and none of them wanted money taken out their pockets

I also think it's fundamentally inequitable to make a policy change like that which undermines people's retirement planning when they're in the draw-down phase

if they were that gung-ho about going ahead with it, a grandfather provision for existing shareholdings would have been sensible

 

[Not Important]

franking credits was a dumb policy move because it didn't just target the rich - the rich get most of the benefit, but a million Australians got the franking credit refund and none of them wanted money taken out their pockets

I also think it's fundamentally inequitable to make a policy change like that which undermines people's retirement planning when they're in the draw-down phase

if they were that gung-ho about going ahead with it, a grandfather provision for existing shareholdings would have been sensible

i'm very much anti-lib but isn't removing franking credits for those who pay tax double taxation? ie company pays tax and so does the shareholder. the policy labor took to the last election was spot-on. if you don't pay tax you don't get the franking credit. giving those who don't pay tax franking credits is effectively zero tax. the liberals scare campaign cost the revenue over 7 billion and it will keep rising each year.

n.z has already shown what abolishing negative gearing will do to property prices. then there's the superannuation rorts.

the liberals will never take on big business. already the banks are back into greed mode. corporate salaries are obscene. failed execs get huge payouts. the casualisation of the workforce has removed security and bargaining power and allowed unscrupulous pay rorts by employers while the libs have sat and watched. only labor has advanced workers rights going back to the 8 hour day.advanced health care with medicare -which the libs are destroying. care for those with disabilities etc etc etc.

 

[Caesar]

i'm very much anti-lib but isn't removing franking credits for those who pay tax double taxation? ie company pays tax and so does the shareholder. the policy labor took to the last election was spot-on. if you don't pay tax you don't get the franking credit. giving those who don't pay tax franking credits is effectively zero tax. the liberals scare campaign cost the revenue over 7 billion and it will keep rising each year.

I don't disagree with the ALP policy in principle but I think it was pretty tone deaf in the way it was implemented

It's true that 75% of the cash from the franking credit rebate goes to (essentially) the rich - but in terms of number of individuals a hell of a lot of people who aren't that wealthy benefit

Self-funded retirees structure their financial affairs well in advance of retirement, and once they tip over into the draw-down phase they have a drastically reduced ability to restructure things based on policy changes. Many of the people depending on the franking credit rebate would have had a substantial portion of their cash inflows taken away. They can't go back to work to replace that money - they likely would have had to sell assets they weren't ready to sell to generate money to live on, potentially completely destroying their meticulous retirement plans. I don't think that's equitable policymaking.

Major policy changes like that really require a grandfather provision - if someone owned shares before the change they should be entitled to continue to claim the rebate, but close the loophole for future purchases.

 

[Gough]

I don't disagree with the policy in principle but I think it was pretty tone deaf in the way it was implemented

It's true that 75% of the cash from the franking credit rebate goes to (essentially) the rich - but in terms of number of individuals a hell of a lot of people who aren't that wealthy benefit

Self-funded retirees structure their financial affairs well in advance of retirement, and once they tip over into the draw-down phase they have a drastically reduced ability to restructure things based on policy changes. Many of the people depending on the franking credit rebate would have had a substantial portion of their cash inflows taken away. They can't go back to work to replace that money - they likely would have had to sell assets they weren't ready to sell to generate money to live on, potentially completely destroying their meticulous retirement plans. I don't think that's equitable policymaking.

Major policy changes like that really require a grandfather provision - if someone owned shares before the change they should be entitled to continue to claim the rebate, but close the loophole for future purchases.

Fossil fuels, franking credits, private school funding and negative gearing, we can't touch these policies because apparently people have factored in their government welfare to future plans. Everyone else is fair game.

 

[Caesar]

Fossil fuels, franking credits, private school funding and negative gearing, we can't touch these policies because apparently people have factored in their government welfare to future plans. Everyone else is fair game.

I have no problem in principle with changes to franking credits or negative gearing (I think they are mostly both bad public policy and it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get rid of them)

Fossil fuels we need to move away from purely from a global competitiveness perspective, however we really need a satisfactory solution to firming renewables before we get too gung-ho about shutting coal down coal and banning gas. Maybe nuclear, but none of the green groups want to talk about that either.

Private school funding is a choice and equity thing. As long as geographic inequality exists in Australia, I believe families who don't have the luxury of living in good public school catchment areas should be entitled to entitled to financial support to help them access quality educational alternatives.

 

[NSWCROW]

Wonder what they think of this ?.....

Gentleman slams federal govt over industrial manslaughter laws

The ACT Industrial Relations Minister said the territory had moved ahead to introduce industrial manslaughter in the work...

www.canberratimes.com.au

I'll tell ya what they think about it - ****in' NOTHIN !!!!

Cos the campaigners at 2gb, the dt and 7 and nein keep them wound up about FAUX OUTRAGE CULTURE WAR BULLSHIT EVERY.****EN.DAY

 

[Pie eyed]

I don't think anyone on the dole votes liberal. (And this is coming from a liberal voter who believes that welfare should be increased).

I read this shit all the time,
Why would you be a Liberal voter?
You lie simply for the arguments sake.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

A lot of answers have already been covered but a big one in Australia is hip pocket voting

Australia is the second-highest taxing country in the world and at the last election, the ALP did not come close to matching the Coalition's tax cuts for low-to-middle income earners ($40-$120K)

Who do you think middle-income families being squeezed on wages growth are going to vote for in that situation?

The ALP can promise anything they like, but until they reassure workers that they won't come after their shrinking paycheques they will never get their votes

Australia ranks equal 16th in the world in terms of personal taxation. The same as other western countries like the UK, France, Germany.

List of Countries by Personal Income Tax Rate

This page displays a table with actual values, consensus figures, forecasts, statistics and historical data charts for - List of Countries by Personal Income Tax Rate. List of Countries by Personal Income Tax Rate - provides a table with the latest tax rate figures for several countries...

tradingeconomics.com

As for the highest taxing parties as a share of GDP

 

[go you pups]

I actually thought it was a pretty insightful read, but maybe the tongue/tastes analogy was a bit patronising.

Did he say scrumdiddiilyumptious? Or that it was yummy yum yum yum yummo?

What did you think about the underlying points around the difference between left-wing people and right-wing people in how they choose to vote based on different weightings of the 5 value spectrums their research identified?

Definitely think patriotism is championed by people of the right and is used in particular in America and Britain these days by your GOP/Tory/Brexit types as a wedge tactic, though you can sit anywhere on the political spectrum and be a patriot though imo.

Liberal Party = better economic managers = a pure myth now, but with record debt levels now, Labor needs to drill this out of the park in their campaigns for the next election. Also Scomo/Frydenberg and the Liberals puffing about a 5.5% unemployment rate needs to be called out by Labor too, under 4% would be a solid achievement, something I give Trump some credit for over in America (think it got to 3.5% at one stage, continuing on from Obamas GFC recovery), but I doubt it'll go below 4.5% again here unless serious unemployment reform happens.

 

[Caesar]

Australia ranks equal 16th in the world in terms of personal taxation.

personal tax forms a higher proportion of government revenue in Australia than anywhere in the OECD bar Denmark

 

[MC Bad Genius]

personal tax forms a higher proportion of government revenue in Australia than anywhere in the OECD bar Denmark

Is that good or bad or irrelevant?

 

[Caesar]

Is that good or bad or irrelevant?

Depends on the context and perspective

In the context and perspective we are talking about in this thread (i.e. average workers) I don’t think it is particularly good, as personal tax targets salary and wage earners disproportionately

A government heavily dependent on personal tax revenue is a government heavily dependent on harvesting the pay packet of average workers

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Depends on the context and perspective

In the context and perspective we are talking about in this thread (i.e. average workers) I don’t think it is particularly good, as personal tax targets salary and wage earners disproportionately

A government heavily dependent on personal tax revenue is a government heavily dependent on harvesting the pay packet of average workers

I wonder how the spread of income tax across different tax brackets compares with the other countries. That would tell us more, right?

 

[Caesar]

I wonder how the spread of income tax across different tax brackets compares with the other countries. That would tell us more, right?

It would add another dimension to the discussion, if you’re generously offering to bring that information to the table

I don’t feel it would negate the thrust of what I’m saying though

i.e. overall it would be good for average workers if Australia worked to diversity its revenue base, and thus became less reliant on taxing their pay packets

 

[MC Bad Genius]

It would add another dimension to the discussion, if you’re generously offering to bring that information to the table

I don’t feel it would negate the thrust of what I’m saying though

i.e. overall it would be good for average workers if Australia worked to diversity its revenue base, and thus became less reliant on taxing their pay packets

Got nothing to bring to the table, was just fishing to see if that comparison exists.

What would be your ideal changes to diversify the revenue base?

 

[FireKrakouer]

I read this sh*t all the time,
Why would you be a Liberal voter?
You lie simply for the arguments sake.

People tend to vote based on dozens of factors, not just one (with obvious exceptions).

If federal Labor can convince me that they'll do a good job looking after the battlers and all the other important stuff, they'll get my vote. I won't be making the mistake of voting for state Labor again anytime soon... What a disgrace of a covid response.

 

[Caesar]

Got nothing to bring to the table, was just fishing to see if that comparison exists.

What would be your ideal changes to diversify the revenue base?

Not really my area of expertise but I would probably start with raising the GST to 20% and abolishing the capital gains tax discount

Some kind of emissions trading scheme is necessary

Potentially revisiting the idea of how resource extraction is taxed is worthwhile - would need to be managed a bit more delicately than the MRRT though

Additional revenue should be sunk back into cutting corporate and personal tax rates, and abolishing payroll tax and stamp duty at the state level

 

[tangolikelama]

Most individuals go around doing their own thing and working to survive. Each payslip you see whatever amount deducted for tax. Age old connotation that Libs don't tax more and Labor raise tax. People are too lazy/busy to fact check. Rinse and repeat.

 

[ralphmalph]

Not really my area of expertise but I would probably start with raising the GST to 20% and abolishing the capital gains tax discount

Some kind of emissions trading scheme is necessary

Potentially revisiting the idea of how resource extraction is taxed is worthwhile - would need to be managed a bit more delicately than the MRRT though

Additional revenue should be sunk back into cutting corporate and personal tax rates, and abolishing payroll tax and stamp duty at the state level

GST to 20%? Why? Isn’t that inherently regressive?
And why cut the corporate rate any further? See Kansas.