Why do workers vote Liberal?

[Power Raid]

Lol I was working for a big 6 firm at the time GST was going to ‘slash the size of statute law’

Good times

yep lol

there was an attempt to re-write the tax law to simplify it and reduce it. but they gave up resulting in the 1997 on top of 1936.

happy reading!

 

[bluebob1]

labour does not represent self employed tradies who traditionally were not self employed and used to vote labour. These voters are doing pretty well and are happy with the status quo and will vote Liberal much more than in the 80's. Also Labour cant keep the green vote and also attract rural voters so they dont try to which is why parties like One nation exist to represent the rural working poor.

 

[Saint]

labour does not represent self employed tradies who traditionally were not self employed and used to vote labour. These voters are doing pretty well and are happy with the status quo and will vote Liberal much more than in the 80's. Also Labour cant keep the green vote and also attract rural voters so they dont try to which is why parties like One nation exist to represent the rural working poor.

Yeah far fewer people in Unions is because the big companies which had big unions no longer exist. The Power, Water, Roads, Parks etc. Used to have their own unionised workforces. Now it's all out-sourced to non-unionised companies.

A lot of those workers never had union choice.

The ALP needs to move on from the Unions being in complete control of the party, but doesn't know how. That's how the Shoppies managed to stop the ALP voting for gay marriage for so long.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

Yeah far fewer people in Unions is because the big companies which had big unions no longer exist. The Power, Water, Roads, Parks etc. Used to have their own unionised workforces. Now it's all out-sourced to non-unionised companies.

A lot of those workers never had union choice.

The ALP needs to move on from the Unions being in complete control of the party, but doesn't know how. That's how the Shoppies managed to stop the ALP voting for gay marriage for so long.

The ALP dissociating with unions. The Liberals wet dream you mean?

There are many reasons for union membership dropping over years much of it due to casualisation, lack of self-awareness - some might say foolishness, pressure from companies, wilful bad press from the right-wing medya, the cost of membership, and in some cases feeling their union wasn't sufficiently strong as advocates et al

That said, I believe the Shonky era has turned that around to some extent.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

labour does not represent self employed tradies who traditionally were not self employed and used to vote labour. These voters are doing pretty well and are happy with the status quo and will vote Liberal much more than in the 80's. Also Labour cant keep the green vote and also attract rural voters so they dont try to which is why parties like One nation exist to represent the rural working poor.

* Labor *

 

[Johnny Bananas]

and yet if we compare norway to australia, despite being a very successful nation, their wealth is much much less than ours per person. further norway's national fund looks impressive at $1.4 trillion but then you have to consider Australia's fund industry at $3.4 trillion.

Except, a sovereign wealth fund benefits everyone in the country, both in direct payments and through funding public services. A private fund only benefits its investors. What good does it do me if my neighbour has tens of millions in their super account?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Also Labour cant keep the green vote and also attract rural voters so they dont try to which is why parties like One nation exist to represent the rural working poor.

What would you say are the concerns of the rural working poor?

 

[Saint]

Except, a sovereign wealth fund benefits everyone in the country, both in direct payments and through funding public services. A private fund only benefits its investors. What good does it do me if my neighbour has tens of millions in their super account?

Yeah, I don't understand that these people don't realise that pensioners (those who receive the actual pension) are dirt-poor in Australia compared to Europe.

A lucky few at the top have all the wealth in their super. Not to mention the 40+ people salary sacrificing like maniacs into their super to avoid high tax rates.

Quoting the total Super pool against a national wealth pool is ridiculous.

It's like me saying I'm rich because the average net worth of myself and Gina Rinehardt is $30bn. But I have $0.000001 bn and she's got about $60bn.

 

[Saint]

The ALP dissociating with unions. The Liberals wet dream you mean?

There are many reasons for union membership dropping over years much of it due to casualisation, lack of self-awareness - some might say foolishness, pressure from companies, wilful bad press from the right-wing medya, the cost of membership, and in some cases feeling their union wasn't sufficiently strong as advocates et al

That said, I believe the Shonky era has turned that around to some extent.

The don't need to dissociate from them. But if 10% of the voters for the party are running the party in their own interests, what's in it for the other 90% to bother with them?

Anyone not in a Union has to ask why they're voting for a party run by Unions for Unions.

The LNP aren't entirely run by the BCA or IPA. But the ALP is 100% run by the Unions. As long as the Unions shrink, so too will the ALP's appeal as they narrow to just the Union base.

 

[Pessimistic]

The don't need to dissociate from them. But if 10% of the voters for the party are running the party in their own interests, what's in it for the other 90% to bother with them?

Anyone not in a Union has to ask why they're voting for a party run by Unions for Unions.

The LNP aren't entirely run by the BCA or IPA. But the ALP is 100% run by the Unions. As long as the Unions shrink, so too will the ALP's appeal as they narrow to just the Union base.

Work choices. 20% GST. Private health only. LNP wet dreams…perhaps

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

The don't need to dissociate from them. But if 10% of the voters for the party are running the party in their own interests, what's in it for the other 90% to bother with them?

Anyone not in a Union has to ask why they're voting for a party run by Unions for Unions.

The LNP aren't entirely run by the BCA or IPA. But the ALP is 100% run by the Unions. As long as the Unions shrink, so too will the ALP's appeal as they narrow to just the Union base.

It's a myth that 10% run the party I'd suggest. Ask the CMFEU. Which, btw, is an incredibly effective and powerful union.

 

[Power Raid]

Yeah, I don't understand that these people don't realise that pensioners (those who receive the actual pension) are dirt-poor in Australia compared to Europe.

A lucky few at the top have all the wealth in their super. Not to mention the 40+ people salary sacrificing like maniacs into their super to avoid high tax rates.

Quoting the total Super pool against a national wealth pool is ridiculous.

It's like me saying I'm rich because the average net worth of myself and Gina Rinehardt is $30bn. But I have $0.000001 bn and she's got about $60bn.

on the basis of median wealth, we are twice as rich as our friends the norwegians

 

[Power Raid]

Work choices. 20% GST. Private health only. LNP wet dreams…perhaps

norway's GST is 25%.

if you want what norway has, then we need to adopt their model

 

[ChampRevesby]

It's a myth that 10% run the party I'd suggest. Ask the CMFEU. Which, btw, is an incredibly effective and powerful union.

Between the 2 factions in the WA labor party (at least) the vast majority are Union aligned, affiliated and/or direct reps. There are only a handful of unaligned ministers, McGowan being one of them.

 

[Pessimistic]

norway's GST is 25%.

if you want what norway has, then we need to adopt their model

Funny it started out as a socialist policy. It wrecks the poor even further though

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

Between the 2 factions in the WA labor party (at least) the vast majority are Union aligned, affiliated and/or direct reps. There are only a handful of unaligned ministers, McGowan being one of them.

I'm unfamiliar with WA. And my knowledge of Labor stems from what those who are connected tell me and observation. As far as one of the biggest unions goes, the CMFEU, I'm told there remains a standoff which entails the CMFEU not supporting Labor financially or politically. Labor has stood its ground. And there's quite some tension between the ACTU and Labor at least federally on policy.

Going back to the post by Saint, the IPA runs the Liberal Party. Their policy agenda is pretty much set by that Murdoch-created right propaganda outfit. The number of Liberal politicians and aspiring politicians who are members is immense. Two prominent parliamentarians were former employees and they actively espouse the IPA agenda.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

norway's GST is 25%.

if you want what norway has, then we need to adopt their model

Do we? Aren't there any other methods of taxation?

 

[Saint]

I'm unfamiliar with WA. And my knowledge of Labor stems from what those who are connected tell me and observation. As far as one of the biggest unions goes, the CMFEU, I'm told there remains a standoff which entails the CMFEU not supporting Labor financially or politically. Labor has stood its ground. And there's quite some tension between the ACTU and Labor at least federally on policy.

Going back to the post by Saint, the IPA runs the Liberal Party. Their policy agenda is pretty much set by that Murdoch-created right propaganda outfit. The number of Liberal politicians and aspiring politicians who are members is immense. Two prominent parliamentarians were former employees and they actively espouse the IPA agenda.

I think you've got it a bit mixed up. The people who fund the IPA also fund the LNP, but it's not the IPA who call the shots in the LNP. The IPA is against a lot of the stupidity going on right now in the religious LNP faction. Not all the LNP are aligned with the IPA.

The CFMEU is one of many Unions. The largest union, the SDA (Shoppies) have been basically corrupt for the last 50 years since the ALP Schism. They're still in charge. The ALP Executive are ALL Union people who answer to the Union (not voters or even ALP members). Andrew Leigh is the ALP's best economics person. But he can't even get into cabinet because he's not union-aligned. The ALP will forego performance/governance in favour of Union factionalism. Union Factionalism ALWAYS brings down the ALP. Federally and at the state level.

 

[Power Raid]

Do we? Aren't there any other methods of taxation?

yes there are other methods of taxation but sadly most others don't work. We here time and time again, let's tax major corporations but the issue is transfer pricing which can only be remedied by GST.

Increasing GST will ensure there is no incentive for transfer pricing, collect full tax on major corporations and online shopping. Best of all it makes our Australian businesses internationally competitive, meaning more jobs.

We should also introduce a wealth tax targeting at the highest rate non-productive assets like land, gold and cash.

Funny it started out as a socialist policy. It wrecks the poor even further though

This has some truth but that truth has been inflated, as it ignores the laws of economics. Just like corporate tax and income tax (ignoring marginal tax rates (which labor wants to undermine)), GST is not born by just the buyer or just the seller. Price elasticity will determine who pays rather than whether it is a GST, corporate tax or income tax.

Further increasing social welfare, maintaining low income rebates (in refund forms) and other offsets.

 

[Pessimistic]

Wouldn’t the cot of housing be the major factor in non competitiveness of Australian workers?

 

[nut]

norway's GST is 25%.

if you want what norway has, then we need to adopt their model

Yep… raise taxes…

 

[nut]

Wouldn’t the cot of housing be the major factor in non competitiveness of Australian workers?

Yes… another reason for a national fund…
Instead of politicians using surpluses and pissing billions up against a wall creating a “Dutch disease” scenario … or more modern speaking a “John Howard middle class welfare splash ” … which resulted in supercharging the housing sector and filling land fill with plasma TVs .. we’d have a more sustainable housing sector and better average wage to average house price ratio.

When the only thing the mining boom has really achieved is inflated house prices … something is wrong.

So our wealth is tied up assets but our GDP looks great

 

[Johnny Bananas]

yes there are other methods of taxation but sadly most others don't work. We here time and time again, let's tax major corporations but the issue is transfer pricing which can only be remedied by GST.

Increasing GST will ensure there is no incentive for transfer pricing, collect full tax on major corporations and online shopping. Best of all it makes our Australian businesses internationally competitive, meaning more jobs.

Doesn't GST only apply to sales to the final consumer? If every producer is subject to the same tax spike, won't that just mean higher prices for the consumer without any change in profits made by the company?

This economist suggests taxing the input costs to production instead, which, as I understand it, isn't covered under the current GST system, where any GST paid on input costs is rebated.

We should also introduce a wealth tax targeting at the highest rate non-productive assets like land, gold and cash.

Why would anyone hold significant sums in cash when it's already subject to inflation?

Also, are you going respond to my earlier comment?

 

[bluebob1]

What would you say are the concerns of the rural working poor?

keeping their jobs in the coal mine

 

[Power Raid]

Doesn't GST only apply to sales to the final consumer? If every producer is subject to the same tax spike, won't that just mean higher prices for the consumer without any change in profits made by the company?

This economist suggests taxing the input costs to production instead, which, as I understand it, isn't covered under the current GST system, where any GST paid on input costs is rebated.

Any price increase such as tax is always shared between the buyer and the seller. If we use corporate tax using the same logic as "they all pay the same 30% rate" this suggests it is only born buy the company and not passed onto the consumer. We know this isn't true.

The "truth" in the burden on GST on the poor is that the wealthy don't pay GST on their savings. Where the poor spend all their income each week. This needs to be addressed in implementation and constantly monitored.

The question we need to ask ourselves is whether having an efficient and effective tax system, to capture multinationals exceeds the effort to ensure fairness. Fairness would include low income earner rebates and increasing social welfare. With the net result better income collection to fund better services.

For me, I feel we are behind the rest of the world including NZ, Norway, UK etc.

Why would anyone hold significant sums in cash when it's already subject to inflation?

Also, are you going respond to my earlier comment?

You're right inflation is effectively a form of taxation but I prefer to see wealth utilised for productive purposes and thus a tax system should encourage that allocation