Why Hawthorn?

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

You must not watch a lot of Hawthorn. Puopolo was playing as a defensive forward by the end of the year.

The stats show that Guerra was your best rebounding defender.

You really don't get it do you? Birchall was in the best 40 players in the comp this year, and was much better than Guerra. Some experts had Birchall in the AA team. Birchall made the AA squad of 40. He plays on the HBF. He is much, much, much better than Guerra. Can you comprehend what I am saying?

 

[Roddy]

Is it my imagination, or are there shitloads of envious Hawk-haters on this site? Even Pies supporters are jealous. Why is this? You have more flags, more money and draw more fans than us. You have a more recent flag. I can understand Cats/Roos etc fans, but not Pies....

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Is it my imagination, or are there shitloads of envious Hawk-haters on this site? Even Pies supporters are jealous. Why is this? You have more flags, more money and draw more fans than us. You have a more recent flag. I can understand Cats/Roos etc fans, but not Pies....

Why do Hawks supporters think anyone who doesn't speak glowingly about Hawthorn must be envious?

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Gilham played the 1st 7 games. You were hardly without him for the whole season. The 3rd least points is also deceptive, return games against GC, the softest draw of any top 8 side & the like.

You were exposed badly against the Top 4 sides who had power forwards, that is why you won 1 game & lost 5 against these sides.

If/when Gilham comes back, do you think he'll be taking the power forwards? even when he was there, Gibbo took the monster number 1 forward. With shoeys natural progression and size, you can expect him to take the power forwards over Gil too next year.

You must not watch a lot of Hawthorn. Puopolo was playing as a defensive forward by the end of the year.

The stats show that Guerra was your best rebounding defender.

Errr... poppy played both roles towards the end of the season - manning up where he was required ala c brown the year before.

And stats show that Priddis is better than d thomas - so that must be true.

No, Ball would be our 4th best midfielder (as opposed to Mitchell & Hodge who are No 1 & 2). Pendlebury (23), Swan (27), Thomas (23), Cloke (24) & Heath Shaw (25) are easily our best 5 players (in no particular order).

No, you believe they are your best players - your coaches on the otherhand think he is top 5, and has been for the last 2 years.

 

[FoxC]

Is it my imagination, or are there shitloads of envious Hawk-haters on this site? Even Pies supporters are jealous. Why is this? You have more flags, more money and draw more fans than us. You have a more recent flag. I can understand Cats/Roos etc fans, but not Pies....

Can't speak for Roos fans but I'm pretty sure you are more jealous of the Cats than vice versa.

And stop flattering yourself. Your list is just as full of hacks as the Pies'.

 

[cryptor]

I was almost tempted to say what I often put up with - "If you guys didn't have Carey".

Haha now it's more like "if you guys didn't have Buddy!"

Yeah, nah, strangely enough Hawthorn are one of a few teams we always go into a game thinking we can win, similar to Essendon, Richmond and Carlton who we also lost to this year.

Yeah I'll admit I always feel less confident than you'd expect given our ladder positions recently going into a game against the Roos. Strangely enough I felt more confident of beating the Cats each of the 3 times we played them this season than the one game we played against your lot (given I did think we'd win, I was just less confident of it). Then you look at our results against the Roos and Cats over the past 3 years or so and it's mind boggling how I could feel that way.

 

[mark73]

Why do Hawks supporters think anyone who doesn't speak glowingly about Hawthorn must be envious?

Part of the reason until recently I stopped discussing them on the main forum. It's tiresome. I'd love my club to play them 20 times next year. One of those teams that are ok but aren't great.

 

[doppleganger]

Murphy and Thomas were taken before X, and we would have taken either if they were available.

Pendles is better yes, other than him, who are the other young mids we could have taken that have shown more than X? Andrew Swallow at 43 is about it.

Pendles, Higgins, N.Jones, Hurn, Varcoe, Douglas, Ibbotson, Vince, Swallow

Have all contibuted more to their clubs than X @ pick 3.

X, Dowler, Muston, Thorp

If Hawthorn had drafted (for instance)

Jones, Ryder, Vince, B.Reid

Their list would have been in a much better shape, and like Geelong they would not have been active trader's over the last couple of years.

Try and paint it anyway you like, but the 05-06 draft failure has cost Hawthorn a prolonged 'Geelong' like stint at the top.....the fact the Hawks have only won one final post 08 highlights this.

The Hawks have done well to try and rectify this, but it will still hurt as they have missed out on a secondary wave of guns who would have came through at the same time as Buddy, Lewis, Roughy...which would have created the perfect storm whilst Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell etc were still at their peak.

 

[FoxC]

Strangely enough I felt more confident of beating the Cats each of the 3 times we played them this season than the one game we played against your lot (given I did think we'd win, I was just less confident of it). Then you look at our results against the Roos and Cats over the past 3 years or so and it's mind boggling how I could feel that way.

Judging by the amount of crap I've read on BF you're not the only deluded Hawks fan.

 

[cryptor]

Judging by the amount of crap I've read on BF you're not the only deluded Hawks fan.

Given the average margin of all our games since the end of 08 up until the start of this past season and the Hawks return to some consistent form forgive me for holding some confidence in my team to beat them.

 

[pharoah]

Talking about a comment which was simply made out of hate for the Hawthorn footy club.

If i was a 17 year old ATM and was good enough to be drafted their would be 2 clubs who i would be dieing to go to.

They are Hawthorn and Collingwood. They have the best facilities in the AFL (In Victoria) they have massive fan bases and their currently very successful.

I thought it would be pretty obvious as to why players would want to move their.

Surely playing in front of 50+ each week would be a factor.

The pies are now competing with the saints new facilities out at seaford which in most experts have recognised their facilities as the top 4 in the state, then theres the blues who have an under water cycle machine and stepper that only chelsea soccer club has aside from the blues.
Collingwood goes without saying as an 87 million dollar organization.
But the hawks have a great family trasdition and a family culture

 

[The 747]

Murphy and Thomas were taken before X, and we would have taken either if they were available.

Pendles is better yes, other than him, who are the other young mids we could have taken that have shown more than X? Andrew Swallow at 43 is about it.

Pretty much most of the mids taken in that draft?

He is a bust for pick 3. Very average.

 

[The 747]

Is it my imagination, or are there shitloads of envious Hawk-haters on this site? Even Pies supporters are jealous. Why is this? You have more flags, more money and draw more fans than us. You have a more recent flag. I can understand Cats/Roos etc fans, but not Pies....

Nothing to do with the team and everything to do with the very large amount of tools who support Hawthorn and post junk most of the time......even your post flatters yourself trying to say it is jealousy.

We have won 3 flags in the last 5 years and you think we are jealous of Hawthorn?

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Pendles, Higgins, N.Jones, Hurn, Varcoe, Douglas, Ibbotson, Vince, Swallow

Have all contibuted more to their clubs than X @ pick 3.

X, Dowler, Muston, Thorp

If Hawthorn had drafted (for instance)

Jones, Ryder, Vince, B.Reid

Their list would have been in a much better shape, and like Geelong they would not have been active trader's over the last couple of years.

Try and paint it anyway you like, but the 05-06 draft failure has cost Hawthorn a prolonged 'Geelong' like stint at the top.....the fact the Hawks have only won one final post 08 highlights this.

The Hawks have done well to try and rectify this, but it will still hurt as they have missed out on a secondary wave of guns who would have came through at the same time as Buddy, Lewis, Roughy...which would have created the perfect storm whilst Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell etc were still at their peak.

The only thing that's been holding Ellis back is his persistent struggles with injures, a fit and firing Ellis is a quality player.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

My post two or three pages ago was the last one in this thread that actually adressed the OP.

Since then its been childish bickering thats just goes round in circles.

Typical BigFooty though. Any thread that may praise a club for doing something right always ends up in petty opp supporters doing what they can to try and bring the club down again.

This isn't by any means exclusive to Hawthorn threads btw.

Hawthorn's 2005/6 recruiting.... Hawthorn's jelousy of Geelong.... North's supposed lack of fear towards Hawthorn.... Xavier Ellis.... None of these points have anything to do with the topic, why players like Gunston, O'Keefe, Thornton, Burgoyne, Gibson etc requested to be traded to Hawthorn.

I wonder if the OP even bothers reading this thread any more.

Just an observation. Carry on.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Pendles, Higgins, N.Jones, Hurn, Varcoe, Douglas, Ibbotson, Vince, Swallow

Have all contibuted more to their clubs than X @ pick 3.

X, Dowler, Muston, Thorp

If Hawthorn had drafted (for instance)

Jones, Ryder, Vince, B.Reid

Their list would have been in a much better shape, and like Geelong they would not have been active trader's over the last couple of years.

N Jones wouldn't be getting a game and Vince would be well down the order and neither would significantly improve us. When not injured Ellis has shown he could be as good if not a better player than either (ie 08 GF). Watch out next year after he has his first uninterrupted preseason for 3 or 4 years.

Ryder and Reid would help, but given Reid's atrocious GF performance against Tommahawk, he would not have helped against us geelong moreso than shoey. We need a strong body on body KPD - not a tall loose man in defense.

Try and paint it anyway you like, but the 05-06 draft failure has cost Hawthorn a prolonged 'Geelong' like stint at the top.....the fact the Hawks have only won one final post 08 highlights this.

The Hawks have done well to try and rectify this, but it will still hurt as they have missed out on a secondary wave of guns who would have came through at the same time as Buddy, Lewis, Roughy...which would have created the perfect storm whilst Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell etc were still at their peak.

05-06 drafting would cost us a geelong like run?
04 - Prismall, N Ablett, Egan
05 - Varcoe, West, Owen, Gamble, Stokes.

Exactly 2-3 years before their first premiership (like 05-06 for us). I'd easily take Birchall, Suckling, Ellis, Bailey over Varcoe West and Stokes.

So worse drafting than us in the same period you refer to didnt cost geelong a 'geelong like run'... how does that work? Where were their 'secondary wave of guns??

Just for the record
03 - Tenace, Thurley, Blake, Spencer

Anything can happen in football - given our average age and the age of our best players we could easily have another 5 years at the top.

 

[JonoNash]

No, you believe they are your best players - your coaches on the otherhand think he is top 5, and has been for the last 2 years.

Shaw was leading the Copeland Trophy by 10 votes when he got suspended. He was also a lock for the AA HB position & many neutrals were saying Shaw was in the top 3 defenders in the entire competition.

Iwhen Gilham comes back, do you think he'll be taking the power forwards? even when he was there, Gibbo took the monster number 1 forward. With shoeys natural progression and size, you can expect him to take the power forwards over Gil too next year.

Shoenmakers has natural progression? Whenever Collingwood have played Hawthorn, Gilham has gone to Cloke. Stop reinventing the wheel.

 

[MightyHawks]

Pendles, Higgins, N.Jones, Hurn, Varcoe, Douglas, Ibbotson, Vince, Swallow

Have all contributed more to their clubs than X @ pick 3.

Which of the above players have made a major contribution to a Grand Final victory?

Ellis may not have done much in 2009-11, but his 2008 was good and he was great on Grand Final Day 2008

Pretty much most of the mids taken in that draft?

He is a bust for pick 3. Very average.

Would definitely prefer more out of him than what we've seen. Aside from 2008, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire yet.

But let's see if he can get his body right for 2012.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Shaw was leading the Copeland Trophy by 10 votes when he got suspended. He was also a lock for the AA HB position & many neutrals were saying Shaw was in the top 3 defenders in the entire competition.

So put Shaw in the top 5 ahead of Ball - Ball still finishes 5th.

Shoenmakers has natural progression? Whenever Collingwood have played Hawthorn, Gilham has gone to Cloke. Stop reinventing the wheel.

Maybe watch a game or 2 - Gibbo almost always takes Cloke, except for 3 years ago when shoey played on him and kept him to <10 touches and no goals

 

[latrell]

We have won 3 flags in the last 5 years and you think we are jealous of Hawthorn? [/QUOTE]

Just 5 years ago geelong had a longer premiership drought than stkilda. You were then known as the handbaggers. Show a bit of respect.

 

[doppleganger]

My post two or three pages ago was the last one in this thread that actually adressed the OP.

Hawthorn's 2005/6 recruiting.... Hawthorn's jelousy of Geelong.... North's supposed lack of fear towards Hawthorn.... Xavier Ellis.... None of these points have anything to do with the topic, why players like Gunston, O'Keefe, Thornton, Burgoyne, Gibson etc requested to be traded to Hawthorn.

I wonder if the OP even bothers reading this thread any more.

Just an observation. Carry on.

The 05/06 draft is a massive reason behind Hawthorn being active in tue trade market.

They had significant holes in their list due to the flops of the 05/06 drafts.

If guys like Dowler, Thorp had come on as you would hope top 10 picks would, there would be no room or want for guys like Gibson, Gunston or Hale.

If Muston and X could get on the park, would Burgoyne have been able to fit in??

When in premiership mode, and you have gaps you trade for players. It is pretty simple. St.Kilda did it previously, Sydney did it, Collingwood did it.

 

[doppleganger]

05-06 drafting would cost us a geelong like run?


Anything can happen in football - given our average age and the age of our best players we could easily have another 5 years at the top.

the reference to Geelong is because they had a couple of bumper drafts in quick succession....ie 99 & 01 - they picked up 9 stars that have matured together.

Hawthorn had a bumper crop in 04 - Buddy, Lewis and Roughy....then in 05-06 they had a further 3 top 10 and a combined 7 picks in the top 20 odd.....if they had drafted well and landed another 4 or 5 guns (as you would hope with those kind of picks) they would have a dominant list right now and would not be trading for guys like Hale.

Fact is they bombed out, missed the opportunity for the 'dynasty' and now are plugging holes, relatively successfully mind you, with senior players.

 

[doppleganger]

Which of the above players have made a major contribution to a Grand Final victory?

Ellis may not have done much in 2009-11, but his 2008 was good and he was great on Grand Final Day 2008.


Would definitely prefer more out of him than what we've seen. Aside from 2008, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire yet.

But let's see if he can get his body right for 2012.

Ellis basically had his best ever game for Hawthorn in the GF, so yes I'm aware he would earn massive brownie points from the brown and gold.

Varcoe was brilliant for the Cats this year by the way, Pendles been Pies best in two GFs!

Fact is that X was drafted as a skinny kid, he still is a fragile skinny guy who is constantly injured....they only get so much time...if he has another poor year he would be at the cross roads....not a good return from a pick 3

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

the reference to Geelong is because they had a couple of bumper drafts in quick succession....ie 99 & 01 - they picked up 9 stars that have matured together.

Hawthorn had a bumper crop in 04 - Buddy, Lewis and Roughy....then in 05-06 they had a further 3 top 10 and a combined 7 picks in the top 20 odd.....if they had drafted well and landed another 4 or 5 guns (as you would hope with those kind of picks) they would have a dominant list right now and would not be trading for guys like Hale.

Fact is they bombed out, missed the opportunity for the 'dynasty' and now are plugging holes, relatively successfully mind you, with senior players.

So geelong had 3 consecutive good drafts, and thats why they have a dynasty? right...So because hodge, mitch, sewell, buddy, rough..etc.. werent drafted near each other, and havent 'matured together' this means they cant play well together. got it.

And now you mention it, what is collingwoods drafting of ball and jolly? not plugging holes? So using your logic, because collingwood were crap at drafting ruckman and inside mids, and had to 'plug holes' as you say, they will come crashing down, and a 'geelong type dynasty' is not possible?

 

[doppleganger]

So geelong had 3 consecutive good drafts, and thats why they have a dynasty? right...So because hodge, mitch, sewell, buddy, rough..etc.. werent drafted near each other, and havent 'matured together' this means they cant play well together. got it.

Tis pretty simple

J.Corey, Ling, Chapman, Enright, Bartel, Kelly, Ablett, S.Johnson

Geelong were able to snaffle 8 absolute champions from the 99 & 01 drafts... 7 of them are now triple premiership players.

They came through at the same time, sure they had a major trade, for Ottens and few established players already at the club ie Scarlett, Wojinski, Harley, Milburn..........But the nucleus for their golden age came from two golden drafts in close succession.

St.Kilda was a club that supposedly had a better run of draft picks

Riewoldt, Kosi, L.Ball, X.Clarke, Dal Santo, Maguire, Montagna, Goddard were snaffled from 00-02....but Kosi, Clarke, Maguire and to a lessor extent Ball struggled with injuries / form....this lead the saints to trade for senior guys....like Schneider, Gram, Gardiner, Dawson, Ray, Dempster to try and keep them at the top.......it almost worked


IMO if Hawthorn had drafted well in 05-06, they could have had a chance at going on a dominant period like Geelong.....but now I think they have blown it and will be like St.Kilda who got close by plugging holes with senior bodies, but could not get over the line.

And now you mention it, what is collingwoods drafting of ball and jolly? not plugging holes? So using your logic, because collingwood were crap at drafting ruckman and inside mids, and had to 'plug holes' as you say, they will come crashing down, and a 'geelong type dynasty' is not possible?

Collingwood's potential future success will come down to the 04-06 drafts

Cloke, HarryO, Thomas, Pendles, Toovey, N.Brown, Reid, Dawes, Wellingham they are maturing together.

They are hitting peak age ie 24-28 in the next couple of years.