Will Neil Craig ever get a clue?

[subaru]

I'd love to hear what Roo has to say about the effort.. anyone hear his comments on MMM? (I assume he called the game on MMM?)

I don't think he did, unfortunately. Am a fan of Roo on the radio.
I was out , and only saw the vision with no sound, and could only hear bits and pieces from the radio...thank Christ.

 

[Boundryump]

Maybe the time has come to bring in some more young players,couldn't get any worse,reward the good players and flick the rest off to the SANFL for a reality check.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

ok lets run with this for a second, lets take the minimum and maximum range of the potential list changes.

cumulatively for the craig era:
2004 3 - 6
2005 6 - 12
2006 9 - 18
2007 12 - 24
2008 15 - 30
2009 18 - 36

so in craigs time he has had the opportunity (without being richmond-esque) to turn over between 1/2 and the entire playing list.

and that's without trading which offers even more opportunity for list changing of more mature bodies.

I don't think there is any question of list inheritance or legacy here.

True but if my theory of a culture problem among the players is correct (big if - I admit there was a strong element of late night emotional ranting about my post!) then these 3-6 new players each year are simply absorbed into the whole.

They do not set new standards or change cultures. They learn off the leaders and senior players, copy behaviours and become part of that larger group. Then they pass on their knowledge to the next group of players. There is never the opportunity for a sea change where you wipe out the majority of your squad.

If a new coach came in next season from outside the existing coaching group, how many of Goodwin, Burton, Edwards, McLeod, Hentschel and Doughty would remain on the list? I would think zero. However, if Craig continues with his current mindset I can see at least three of those players being retained.

Is Craig able to reinvent himself? Can he admit what Michaelangelo suggested a few weeks ago that he has reached a dead end with this group of players? If the answer aren't yes and yes then we have the wrong man going into next season and should make a clean break at the end of this year. If he believes he can then he has 2011 to demonstrate his abilities to influence a young playing group.

 

[Crow-mo]

True but if my theory of a culture problem among the players is correct (big if - I admit there was a strong element of late night emotional ranting about my post!) then these 3-6 new players each year are simply absorbed into the whole.

They do not set new standards or change cultures. They learn off the leaders and senior players, copy behaviours and become part of that larger group. Then they pass on their knowledge to the next group of players. There is never the opportunity for a sea change where you wipe out the majority of your squad.

If a new coach came in next season from outside the existing coaching group, how many of Goodwin, Burton, Edwards, McLeod, Hentschel and Doughty would remain on the list? I would think zero. However, if Craig continues with his current mindset I can see at least three of those players being retained.

Is Craig able to reinvent himself? Can he admit what Michaelangelo suggested a few weeks ago that he has reached a dead end with this group of players? If the answer aren't yes and yes then we have the wrong man going into next season and should make a clean break at the end of this year. If he believes he can then he has 2011 to demonstrate his abilities to influence a young playing group.

I do believe there is a problem with our leadership, in that we have a leadership group not to support strong leadership but instead of. gravy, without the roast beef.

I also believe our strong culture is a myth, and can't be validated by any reasonable analysis.

With the best will in the world, I think the cultural change is too much for someone who is not only entering his 7th year as senior coach but who was an assistant for a number of years before that.

He is a product/enabler of the culture, how is it reasonably to ask or even expect him to shake it up?

you don't have to be a critic of Craig's to see the conflict.

 

[swanfan]

If that pathetic excuse for a performance doesn't send a message to the board, nothing ever will. Unfortunately, it looks like we will be stuck with it for another year of it because the powers that be think Craig is doing a great job.


I was watchinglast night and there was a camera vision of Craig in the coaches box. Sat there like a stooge as he usually does when we are getting beaten pointlessly because he doesn't know what to do, doesn't know how to change it up, won't take advice from his assistants.


Your stubborness will be your downfall Craig.

 

[crowman86]

If that pathetic excuse for a performance doesn't send a message to the board, nothing ever will. Unfortunately, it looks like we will be stuck with it for another year of it because the powers that be think Craig is doing a great job.


I was watchinglast night and there was a camera vision of Craig in the coaches box. Sat there like a stooge as he usually does when we are getting beaten pointlessly because he doesn't know what to do, doesn't know how to change it up, won't take advice from his assistants.


Your stubborness will be your downfall Craig.

stupid post, how do you know that he doesn't take advice. How do you know he doesn't know how to 'change it up'. The last qtr clearly shows the players were capable of playing at a level with which they could compete and win the game but they just didn't have the will, hunger, desire to attack the game. What is Craig meant to do from the coaches box. It's very very hard to make changes to gameplan half way through a quarter. Bit hard to inspire and fire the boys up when he isn't on the ground. This is where the senior players and leaders need to step up and create an example. Unfortunately our senior players are not great leaders on field and don't inspire and lift the team the way roo used to.

 

[Thumpy]

The way we moved the ball last night was pretty disgraceful TBH. The players looked dis-interested and as though they couldn't be bothered attacking and running. Again we saw them kick the ball behind the play instead of the play on at all costs style that we played for most of last year. So what the hell clicked in the last quarter then...

We suddenly started moving the ball so much faster/playing on at all costs etc. The players (esp. Porplyzia) started to gain some hope and quite a lot of them lifted their intensity. The fact that North were a man down is irrelevant considering Hale is a ruckman/forward so they weren't left short of any leg-speed. If we play that sort of football for four quarters then we will win games, simple as that.

I don't see what we have to lose now TBH. We're not going to make finals so why not take more risks with our gamestyle. The only way this can work though is if the players try harder. We won't beat another team for the year (except for maybe Richmond) if we keep playing as we are ATM.

 

[swanfan]

stupid post, how do you know that he doesn't take advice. How do you know he doesn't know how to 'change it up'. The last qtr clearly shows the players were capable of playing at a level with which they could compete and win the game but they just didn't have the will, hunger, desire to attack the game. What is Craig meant to do from the coaches box. It's very very hard to make changes to gameplan half way through a quarter. Bit hard to inspire and fire the boys up when he isn't on the ground. This is where the senior players and leaders need to step up and create an example. Unfortunately our senior players are not great leaders on field and don't inspire and lift the team the way roo used to.

I am sure the assistants have differing opinions and if he was to take them on board, I am sure we would see some changes.

Well the way they have been playing is evidence that he doesn't know how to change things. Same gameplan, same outcome.

Half-time would have been the ideal time to try something different.

Lets keep on living in the Roo legacy..

 

[King Elvis]

Mate I really get some of this.. I do. But who puts the players out there? Who coaches them to perform? Who can send messages by dumping those who are not performing? Who is in the best place to actually inspire their passion and creativity and desire? Craigy.

You can say the cupboard is bare... but **** if they really are letting him down as much as it seems bring in ****ing Jacky and Griffin. Make a few examples of the guys who are the biggest culprit. Sit Bernie on his arse til he pulls his finger out. Light a fire under a few of them.

I'd love to hear what Roo has to say about the effort.. anyone hear his comments on MMM? (I assume he called the game on MMM?)

I've backed Craigy all year, I thought, as I think he did, that a lot of our woes were due to injuries and lack of fitness which then caused other problems.

Last night was the tipping point for me - and the way Craig looked in the Coaches Box, I seriously hope it was for him to.

He looked despondent, hopefully because he realised that the faith he's shown in a lot of these players this year isn't being repaid; and it can no longer be attributed to injuries or fitness. Meaning it's time to make some serious changes and weed out those who will actually put in, and those who wont.

If he doesn't do that, if we continue in the same mould as we have all year (which, again, I was comfortable with until last night), then the responsibility for our plight and his refusal to address it will probably be Craig's undoing.


On another note - I think we all thought Williams should get the arse from the Power this year, but, similar to what Geelong did with Bomber a few years ago, they instead reviewed the entire Footy Department and replaced a bunch of people with strong new talent (Laidley, Hocking etc), and it's paid huge dividends.

Regardless of what happens, I'd suggest we need a clean-out of the Coaching Box;

Clarke / Hart / Noble - All finish up this season.

IBickley can stay, Viney would be under serious review as well.

And I wouldn't replace them with anybody from the Crows.

 

[jenny61_99]

I've backed Craigy all year, I thought, as I think he did, that a lot of our woes were due to injuries and lack of fitness which then caused other problems.

Last night was the tipping point for me - and the way Craig looked in the Coaches Box, I seriously hope it was for him to.

He looked despondent, hopefully because he realised that the faith he's shown in a lot of these players this year isn't being repaid; and it can no longer be attributed to injuries or fitness. Meaning it's time to make some serious changes and weed out those who will actually put in, and those who wont.

If he doesn't do that, if we continue in the same mould as we have all year (which, again, I was comfortable with until last night), then the responsibility for our plight and his refusal to address it will probably be Craig's undoing.


On another note - I think we all thought Williams should get the arse from the Power this year, but, similar to what Geelong did with Bomber a few years ago, they instead reviewed the entire Footy Department and replaced a bunch of people with strong new talent (Laidley, Hocking etc), and it's paid huge dividends.

Regardless of what happens, I'd suggest we need a clean-out of the Coaching Box;

Clarke / Hart / Noble - All finish up this season.

IBickley can stay, Viney would be under serious review as well.

And I wouldn't replace them with anybody from the Crows.

Great post!

 

[aneale]

This is it in a nutshell. Saying that opposition sides have worked out our gameplan is missing the point totally - we are not actually playing our own gameplan. There is no way that the gameplan is to simply hold on to the ball in the backlines and switch incessently, refusing to kick to a contest in even the most desperate of circumstances. That is a lack of confidence, a lack of care.

That is just inherently untrue. Watch how they train, watch how they play. So you ask why they do that? its the other 22 blokes out on the ground in different colours. Those players are told how to stop those in our colours doing what they want to do. It can't just be flippantly excused as 'we are not actually playing our own gameplan'. There is a reason why gameplans needs to evolve and change and eventually be dropped completely. Otherwose we would all still be playing the kick, mark, kick, mark, handball, kick, mark style of the 40's and 50's.

Every coach in the league, except Clarkson, has spoken about the zone at some point this year, they are all saying the same things.

 

[Bicks]

I've backed Craigy all year, I thought, as I think he did, that a lot of our woes were due to injuries and lack of fitness which then caused other problems.

Last night was the tipping point for me - and the way Craig looked in the Coaches Box, I seriously hope it was for him to.

He looked despondent, hopefully because he realised that the faith he's shown in a lot of these players this year isn't being repaid; and it can no longer be attributed to injuries or fitness. Meaning it's time to make some serious changes and weed out those who will actually put in, and those who wont.

If he doesn't do that, if we continue in the same mould as we have all year (which, again, I was comfortable with until last night), then the responsibility for our plight and his refusal to address it will probably be Craig's undoing.


On another note - I think we all thought Williams should get the arse from the Power this year, but, similar to what Geelong did with Bomber a few years ago, they instead reviewed the entire Footy Department and replaced a bunch of people with strong new talent (Laidley, Hocking etc), and it's paid huge dividends.

Regardless of what happens, I'd suggest we need a clean-out of the Coaching Box;

Clarke / Hart / Noble - All finish up this season.

IBickley can stay, Viney would be under serious review as well.

And I wouldn't replace them with anybody from the Crows.

Great Post King Elvis, I think of particular importance with the Geelong Review also was the fact they replaced almost entirely their FITNESS STAFF and Football Manager bringing on board Neil Balme.

 

[macca23]

I've backed Craigy all year, I thought, as I think he did, that a lot of our woes were due to injuries and lack of fitness which then caused other problems.

Last night was the tipping point for me - and the way Craig looked in the Coaches Box, I seriously hope it was for him to.

He looked despondent, hopefully because he realised that the faith he's shown in a lot of these players this year isn't being repaid; and it can no longer be attributed to injuries or fitness. Meaning it's time to make some serious changes and weed out those who will actually put in, and those who wont.

If he doesn't do that, if we continue in the same mould as we have all year (which, again, I was comfortable with until last night), then the responsibility for our plight and his refusal to address it will probably be Craig's undoing.


On another note - I think we all thought Williams should get the arse from the Power this year, but, similar to what Geelong did with Bomber a few years ago, they instead reviewed the entire Footy Department and replaced a bunch of people with strong new talent (Laidley, Hocking etc), and it's paid huge dividends.

Regardless of what happens, I'd suggest we need a clean-out of the Coaching Box;

Clarke / Hart / Noble - All finish up this season.

IBickley can stay, Viney would be under serious review as well.

And I wouldn't replace them with anybody from the Crows.

Absolutely brilliant post your kingship, which sums it up beautifully.

Nothing to add. You've covered my thoughts perfectly.

 

[CroCop]

[Regardless of what happens, I'd suggest we need a clean-out of the Coaching Box;

Clarke / Hart / Noble - All finish up this season.

IBickley can stay, Viney would be under serious review as well.

And I wouldn't replace them with anybody from the Crows. ]


I would love Nathan Bassett though. He seems like the type that would have the guts to challenge Neil Craig. It seems all the others currently in the Box are all Craigy's good little boys.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

P.P.S. I've said in another thread that Craig should make the maximum number of changes possible this week. So every single player on the list who didn't play against the Roos should come in, regardless of their SANFL form.

I think you're spot on Carl. NC needs to send a message to the playing group that no matter who you are, if you don't do the 1%ers you will be dropped.

OUT: Rutten, Vince, Doughty, Cook, Porplyzia
IN: Sellar, Griffin (Last chance - give him 5 games to prove himself ), Sloane, Knights, McKay. If Knights and McKay aren't 100% then bring in 2 more kids.

 

[King Elvis]

would love Nathan Bassett though. He seems like the type that would have the guts to challenge Neil Craig. It seems all the others currently in the Box are all Craigy's good little boys.

I love Bass (there is a thread I started a couple of years ago about what a great Coach he'd make), but I'd rather give him a couple of years at Norwood in his senior Coaching role before we even looked at him.

 

[arrowman]

...Regardless of what happens, I'd suggest we need a clean-out of the Coaching Box;

Clarke / Hart / Noble - All finish up this season.

IBickley can stay, Viney would be under serious review as well.

And I wouldn't replace them with anybody from the Crows.

Nutshell.

You know, there is a serious possbility that this single thing may be the only thing we need to do.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Given how flat we look this year, surely Schwerdt also needs to go or is he one of the "jobs for life" guys.

 

[Drummond]

I think you're spot on Carl. NC needs to send a message to the playing group that no matter who you are, if you don't do the 1%ers you will be dropped.

OUT: Rutten, Vince, Doughty, Cook, Porplyzia
IN: Sellar, Griffin (Last chance - give him 5 games to prove himself ), Sloane, Knights, McKay. If Knights and McKay aren't 100% then bring in 2 more kids.

lol.

 

[DavidSaywell]

Regarding our assistants, Clarkie is only a very occassional ruck coach and as I understand it he only works with the ruckmen andf not the onballers. If anybody else could get any more out of Maric and Tippett I would be surprised. Ben Hart does not impress me as a strong character. He should go. David Noble been around long enough. See you later. The zone appears to be Todd Viney's baby. Hmmmm!!! Gone. Bicks is the new boy in town. Give him more responsibility. What we need is a genuine forward coach and a hard nut to toughen our team up and improve our girly tackling. And a tactician. Any thoughts

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

lol.

Yeah I know, desperate times and all that. BTW seems strange you hang Griffin for being a squib yet you're a Cook, Schmidt fan.

 

[Jars458]

Absolutely brilliant post your kingship, which sums it up beautifully.

Nothing to add. You've covered my thoughts perfectly.

I also agree.

where do Jonas and Stewart fit into this though?

Also agree Schwerdt has to be on borrowed time but unlikely the boys club will be split up.

 

[King Elvis]

Regarding our assistants, Clarkie is only a very occassional ruck coach and as I understand it he only works with the ruckmen andf not the onballers. If anybody else could get any more out of Maric and Tippett I would be surprised. Ben Hart does not impress me as a strong character. He should go. David Noble been around long enough. See you later. The zone appears to be Todd Viney's baby. Hmmmm!!! Gone. Bicks is the new boy in town. Give him more responsibility. What we need is a genuine forward coach and a hard nut to toughen our team up and improve our girly tackling. And a tactician. Any thoughts

Wayne Carey as forward coach?

 

[marvin]

I've backed Craigy all year, I thought, as I think he did, that a lot of our woes were due to injuries and lack of fitness which then caused other problems.

Last night was the tipping point for me - and the way Craig looked in the Coaches Box, I seriously hope it was for him to.

He looked despondent, hopefully because he realised that the faith he's shown in a lot of these players this year isn't being repaid; and it can no longer be attributed to injuries or fitness. Meaning it's time to make some serious changes and weed out those who will actually put in, and those who wont.

If he doesn't do that, if we continue in the same mould as we have all year (which, again, I was comfortable with until last night), then the responsibility for our plight and his refusal to address it will probably be Craig's undoing.

I'm pretty close to agreeing, but the tipping point for me was a few weeks ago - the Melbourne game. The disconnect between the performance and the analysis of it by Craig (and Hart, and presumably other coaches) was worrying.

IF there's a change in perception that is shown up both at the selection table, and in the coaches box, maybe this is the nadir.

The first real sign will be at selection. Sellar's back and playing, Sloane, McKernan and Gunston (and rookies Riley and Wright) are dealing themselves into the conversation, hopefully Johncock, Knights, Mackay, Henderson and Symes can get their bodies right soon, and Griffin still has a contract. So what will the selectors do?

1. Build for 2011 and look at a post Edwards, post Doughty world?
2. Drop some of the underperforming regulars - Reilly, VB, Bock, Porps, Vince - to "send a message"?
3. Bring any replacements in at the expense of the Armstrong / Jaensch / Petrenko cohort?

Our side in say Round 12 will be fascinating.

 

[SugarHealey]

I've backed Craigy all year, I thought, as I think he did, that a lot of our woes were due to injuries and lack of fitness which then caused other problems.

Last night was the tipping point for me - and the way Craig looked in the Coaches Box, I seriously hope it was for him to.

He looked despondent, hopefully because he realised that the faith he's shown in a lot of these players this year isn't being repaid; and it can no longer be attributed to injuries or fitness. Meaning it's time to make some serious changes and weed out those who will actually put in, and those who wont.

If he doesn't do that, if we continue in the same mould as we have all year (which, again, I was comfortable with until last night), then the responsibility for our plight and his refusal to address it will probably be Craig's undoing.


On another note - I think we all thought Williams should get the arse from the Power this year, but, similar to what Geelong did with Bomber a few years ago, they instead reviewed the entire Footy Department and replaced a bunch of people with strong new talent (Laidley, Hocking etc), and it's paid huge dividends.

Regardless of what happens, I'd suggest we need a clean-out of the Coaching Box;

Clarke / Hart / Noble - All finish up this season.

IBickley can stay, Viney would be under serious review as well.

And I wouldn't replace them with anybody from the Crows.

Time to bring in the shrink. If the players who were responding to Coach Craig, suddenly aren't, then maybe it's the coach who's the problem.
Port Adelaide have sorted through this problem recently.
If the Coach like Craig who's a science based thinker is stifling the creative side of the players, then naturally the players will just lose interest. Do you really want to give away good players who've become bored & disinterested with the team play, so their workrate has dropped?

Or can the Coach evolve his ways?