List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part II

[Greshs Eye]

Here are my thoughts re JDG and the Pies. I think it is an error to put behavioral clauses into his contract. It paints the club into a corner. IMO, in doing so, they create a trap for themselves whereby they are required to respond to any indiscretion - regardless of of gravity. If the contract is silent on such triggers, the club can respond in any way they feel is appropriate, but if they are contractually obligated to respond, it potentially creates a media circus. TBH I think the JDG camp are using us to get the best out of the Pies, but if we land him without such behavioural terms, its a really easy win. He screws up? OK, Saints say, 'our policy is X with regard to these matters and we respond according to Y'. On the other hand, if its a contractual term, its a question of cvontract breach - hands are tied, the media will get a scent of what how its drafted in the contract, and the interpretation and conjecture begins - 'did he breach contract? Should he be instantly sacked"? etc etc. If he screws up but is dominating, then its another problem for a club too. 'How do we keep him playing without it looking like we are ignoring the very standards we imposed on him' etc. IMO, better play is to keep these sorts of standards quiet, then when he screws up, publicly announce, 'our policy with respect to these transgressions are as follows' ... without a paper trail.

TL DR : Ironically, not including behavioural terms gives the club MORE flexibility to manage a JDG induced crisis, instead of less. (and yes, I am a contract lawyer, not sports tho).

 

[AFLOnline]

Who cares how much coke he snorts off strippers nipples on bye week as long as he performs in finals.?

Not I.
Fans that want to dwell in mediocrity.

Premiership should always be first priority.

 

[Gosaints12]

A guy that reckons he has good info said that we haven't got as much room as you'd think after extending a few contracts after we couldn't sign B King. Not sure what that actually means but if we can chase JDG at $800k perhaps something around that left. Looking to unload Hill and Clark looks like that is potentially to shed some kilos off the cap though. Probably frees up $1.5 million a year.

If we keep Hill and get JDG we would be running pretty lean for any more contracts we need to sign I imagine and probably make Bowes unrealistic.

If Hill wanted North could you try and get other clubs involved to get a better deal?

E.g

Brisbane and Geelong

Brisbane give: picks 33, future 2nd
Brisbane get: Picks 45, 46, 51, 55, 60 and 66

Geelong give: picks 36, 46, 51, 60
Geelong get: PP future 2nd, (North), future 3rd, (stk)

North get: Hill, 33 and future 2nd, (Bris)
North give: 55, 66, PP future 2nd and PP future 3rd

St Kilda get: picks 36 and PP future 3rd
St Kilda give: Hill, pick 45 and future 3rd


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[Winmar2Lockett]

If Hill wanted North could you try and get other clubs involved to get a better deal?

E.g

Brisbane and Geelong

Brisbane give: picks 33, future 2nd
Brisbane get: Picks 45, 46, 51, 55, 60 and 66

Geelong give: picks 36, 46, 51, 60
Geelong get: PP future 2nd, (North), future 3rd, (stk)

North get: Hill, 33 and future 2nd, (Bris)
North give: 55, 66, PP future 2nd and PP future 3rd

St Kilda get: picks 36 and PP future 3rd
St Kilda give: Hill, pick 45 and future 3rd


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Unless we desperately need to dump Hilly’s salary, we get absolutely reamed in that scenario


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[SaintsSeptember]

Unless we desperately need to dump Hilly’s salary, we get absolutely reamed in that scenario


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If we need his Salary paid that badly , someone at the club needs to be reamed.

 

[Drop Kick]

Here are my thoughts re JDG and the Pies. I think it is an error to put behavioral clauses into his contract. It paints the club into a corner. IMO, in doing so, they create a trap for themselves whereby they are required to respond to any indiscretion - regardless of of gravity. If the contract is silent on such triggers, the club can respond in any way they feel is appropriate, but if they are contractually obligated to respond, it potentially creates a media circus. TBH I think the JDG camp are using us to get the best out of the Pies, but if we land him without such behavioural terms, its a really easy win. He screws up? OK, Saints say, 'our policy is X with regard to these matters and we respond according to Y'. On the other hand, if its a contractual term, its a question of cvontract breach - hands are tied, the media will get a scent of what how its drafted in the contract, and the interpretation and conjecture begins - 'did he breach contract? Should he be instantly sacked"? etc etc. If he screws up but is dominating, then its another problem for a club too. 'How do we keep him playing without it looking like we are ignoring the very standards we imposed on him' etc. IMO, better play is to keep these sorts of standards quiet, then when he screws up, publicly announce, 'our policy with respect to these transgressions are as follows' ... without a paper trail.

TL DR : Ironically, not including behavioural terms gives the club MORE flexibility to manage a JDG induced crisis, instead of less. (and yes, I am a contract lawyer, not sports tho).

Good post, fortunately for Collingwood it's President is Jeff Browne, the lawyer who drafted all the rules and regulations for the AFL back in 1987, i'm sure he'll know how to create a behavioural clause that is workable.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If Hill wanted North could you try and get other clubs involved to get a better deal?

E.g

Brisbane and Geelong

Brisbane give: picks 33, future 2nd
Brisbane get: Picks 45, 46, 51, 55, 60 and 66

Geelong give: picks 36, 46, 51, 60
Geelong get: PP future 2nd, (North), future 3rd, (stk)

North get: Hill, 33 and future 2nd, (Bris)
North give: 55, 66, PP future 2nd and PP future 3rd

St Kilda get: picks 36 and PP future 3rd
St Kilda give: Hill, pick 45 and future 3rd


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What a huge amount of stuffing around for hardly any advantage.
Might as well just tear up his contract as do all that.

 

[AFLOnline]

Can’t really be bothered sifting back through the thread, but has their been much noise about Bowes?

He’s one we should be going hard for

 

[Greshs Eye]

Good post, fortunately for Collingwood it's President is Jeff Browne, the lawyer who drafted all the rules and regulations for the AFL back in 1987, i'm sure he'll know how to create a behavioural clause that is workable.

possibly, but its a slippery slope, the detail could screw you. Smarter folks than us are on it I suppose. But I can almost guarantee the art here is creating a standard that superficially satisfies public expectation whilst being pretty toothless. JDG's mgmt will only accept piss weak standards - anything more would be way too gameable. Im surprised CFC have even got themselves bogged down in it tbh. The more scrutiny it gets the more stupid it looks. I think Saints are unlikely, but if we're gonna land him, a 'just sign on' policy makes the most sense.

 

[Premium]

If we need his Salary paid that badly , someone at the club needs to be reamed.

Before Covid hit every list manager was expecting a salary cap increase , but it went backwards and the teams that got ahead of the curve suffered.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Good post, fortunately for Collingwood it's President is Jeff Browne, the lawyer who drafted all the rules and regulations for the AFL back in 1987, i'm sure he'll know how to create a behavioural clause that is workable.

The problem is they were talking about minor infractions being allowed, just the major ones possibly leading to termination.

Now, minor would surely be in the eye of the beholder.
Is it DUI? 20km over the speed limit? Video-ed snorting coke over the off season or stripping off and dancing naked on a table in the pub?

Problem for De Goey is, the Pies now have form shoving people out ( Treloar, Stephenson, potentially Grundy) when it suits them - how could De Goey possibly trust they won’t make a mountain out of a molehill if they decide they want to dump him and his large salary before his contract is up?

 

[bird_man]

Bowes may open up the only chance we have of getting a top 10 pick for Clark...

St Kilda receive Bowes, pick 7

GC receive NM F2 NM F3

North Melbourne receive Clark

 

[George]

The board saving their jobs? The don't get paid you absolute spanner.

Okay you unequivocal screwdriver. They still want to keep their roles if you want to get pedantic. It's pretty handy networking and resume padding for a lot of them. The board and footy department are desperate for credibility after talking the talk for a couple of failed seasons. The pressure is on the whole place.

You're both tools

 

[PoppedCorn]

Anyone heard parish to the pies as well?

Pie fan i know keeps saying it
Havent really seen it anywhere tbh

 

[luca77]

Who cares how much coke he snorts off strippers nipples on bye week as long as he performs in finals.?

Not I.
Fans that want to dwell in mediocrity.

Cool, let's dump Ratts tomorrow and take Clarko off North's hands. Great coaching record, nothing else matters.
I don't really care anymore re JDG. If he comes he comes.
Saying people who have reservations are happy with mediocrity is painting everything black and white, which is simplistic and pretty dumb imo.
It's like saying people who just want a flag at any cost are plain R-soles, which isn't true either.

 

[bird_man]

Unequivocal screwdriver

 

[bird_man]

3 ex Sainters and one that played for our reserves side playing tomorrow

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

If we need his Salary paid that badly , someone at the club needs to be reamed.

Actually it would be the opposite as it would mean JDG is on his way & we’ve pulled off the GC #7 Bowes heist.


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[CursingFijian]

 

[SteeleSaints]

I believe Long going to GCS will be enough leverage to get the GCS #7 & Bowes deal over the line. We may have to throw in something else in but it will give us a good hand.

The other obvious is if we get that pick #7 Clark will stay at the Saints. The Clarkson conundrum will inhibiit Hill's movement also.

So that leaves JDG who obviously wants to stay at the Pies and they will get a deal done.

 

[Yawkey way]

Bowes may open up the only chance we have of getting a top 10 pick for Clark...

St Kilda receive Bowes, pick 7

GC receive NM F2 NM F3

North Melbourne receive Clark

Why get reamed on Clark when we have our own future picks?. You think you can get pick 7 great I’ll worry about getting back into 2023 next year but the Clark trade is just an unnecessary gift Imo.

 

[CursingFijian]

De Goey doesn't seem like the brightest spark, but he does live with a certain freedom and I think his footy reflects that. They often come hand in hand. The only thing that worries me is that there is likely to be some video footage of him from the past doing something despicable, and it will be Carlisle 2.0 when somebody drops it into social media the day he announces his departure from Collingwood.

I hope the club is prepared for some sort of behavioural breach very early on in his career with the Saints. Like within weeks.

 

[Yawkey way]

3 ex Sainters and one that played for our reserves side playing tomorrow

Build a list to challenge then plug and play.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

If the cluib can get De Goey as a Free agent then we should go for it, however if the club has to pay for draft picks then the club should walk away.

GGEZ

 

[CursingFijian]

Build a list to challenge then plug and play.

This is the essence of sporting success - continual improvement. Of the training and teaching facilities. Of the coaches. Of the players. Of the game plan. Of player skill levels. Of the medical department. Of the recruiting department. Just keep raising the bar. It's a slow process if you're looking for sustained success, rather than a flash in the pan charge at finals.