List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[DreadBat5701894]

Assume no rookie upgrade. Would have announced by now

I’m pretty sure we’ve announced a rookie upgrade the same time as a debut before

 

[Sproj]

Stick a fork in us for season 24, we're done.

Tank it properly for pick1.

 

[brutus76]

If West Coast get some extra picks (say a 2nd and a 3rd) by the AFL perhaps they'd ask for Starc and Dev Robbo?

 

[PattyKwasagun]

If West Coast get some extra picks (say a 2nd and a 3rd) by the AFL perhaps they'd ask for Starc and Dev Robbo?

I realise fans notoriously overrate their own players, but I wouldn't trade Starce for anything outside of a top-15 pick (probably even top-10, to be honest). Dev is more of a late-second scenario probably.

 

[Sproj]

Can I say, on behalf of all Lions fans, how comforting is it to be back in the position of a season written off already and compeltely focusing on the only two weeks of the year that matter - trade period (and draft).

Party like it's 2016!

 

[Scubaveg]

Puts Berry's contract this year in the top 25% at the club (~top 10-11)

Mind boggling.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Fagenslions36]

Berry a player who has genuinely stagnated . Should have been dropped by fagan long ago to set a standard . He is too soft on players . Why we going so tall against Collingwood ?

 

[StevoJenkins]

Berry a player who has genuinely stagnated . Should have been dropped by fagan long ago to set a standard . He is too soft on players . Why we going so tall against Collingwood ?

I don't think Berry stays in the team because Fagan likes him, we just genuinely won't have good wingers outside of him. Sharp isn't there yet, Tunstil is destined to be an inside mid, Fletcher is the same. Ah Chee prefers to play as a forward, Dev really needs to play inside as it's his best position, and the only other winger is Bags, but he's been chucked in the middle. Everyone else is not a natural winger and is playing the wing as a fill-in/is the only way they get a game (Answorth, Prior, etc.).

As for going in too tall, I think Fort/Oscar is the right call for the ruck/forward. Oscar is a better main ruck vs another ruck, but Fort is more mobile and can act as another midfielder. Payne then replaces Gardiner, and the others are just the personnel we have on hand. Ravaged by injuries this year as compared to other years.

 

[briztoon]

I don't think Berry stays in the team because Fagan likes him, we just genuinely won't have good wingers outside of him.

Pretty much spot on.

Fletcher and Prior would be the only other two players I believe are genuinely capable as wingers.

And Ah Chee as a flanker/wing.

 

[McIvor]

I don't think Berry stays in the team because Fagan likes him, we just genuinely won't have good wingers outside of him. Sharp isn't there yet, Tunstil is destined to be an inside mid, Fletcher is the same. Ah Chee prefers to play as a forward, Dev really needs to play inside as it's his best position, and the only other winger is Bags, but he's been chucked in the middle. Everyone else is not a natural winger and is playing the wing as a fill-in/is the only way they get a game (Answorth, Prior, etc.).

As for going in too tall, I think Fort/Oscar is the right call for the ruck/forward. Oscar is a better main ruck vs another ruck, but Fort is more mobile and can act as another midfielder. Payne then replaces Gardiner, and the others are just the personnel we have on hand. Ravaged by injuries this year as compared to other years.

I rate Prior more than I do Jerry nowadays and Fagan won’t give Prior a look in

 

[StevoJenkins]

Pretty much spot on.

Fletcher and Prior would be the only other two players I believe are genuinely capable as wingers.

And Ah Chee as a flanker/wing.

I'd like to see Sharp and Prior get a go this season over Berry. Sharp has shown glimpses but doesn't have the consistency, and Prior can play multiple positions. I'd prefer Ah Chee up forward, seems to be the only small outside of McCarthy who tries his heart out (Cameron does try, but seems to play more so for free kicks these days).

Won't happen, but a man can dream.

 

[KissKiss]

I don't think Berry stays in the team because Fagan likes him, we just genuinely won't have good wingers outside of him. Sharp isn't there yet, Tunstil is destined to be an inside mid, Fletcher is the same. Ah Chee prefers to play as a forward, Dev really needs to play inside as it's his best position, and the only other winger is Bags, but he's been chucked in the middle. Everyone else is not a natural winger and is playing the wing as a fill-in/is the only way they get a game (Answorth, Prior, etc.).

As for going in too tall, I think Fort/Oscar is the right call for the ruck/forward. Oscar is a better main ruck vs another ruck, but Fort is more mobile and can act as another midfielder. Payne then replaces Gardiner, and the others are just the personnel we have on hand. Ravaged by injuries this year as compared to other years.

It just seems almost funny that we have no natural wingers, except the few who look like they can play the role (Fletcher and McCluggage) we keep talking about them becoming inside mids. And then the natural inside mids we keep trying to force into wingers (Berry, Dev, Tunstill, even Lyons lined up on the wing in round 1 I think).

 

[StevoJenkins]

It just seems almost funny that we have no natural wingers, except the few who look like they can play the role (Fletcher and McCluggage) we keep talking about them becoming inside mids. And then the natural inside mids we keep trying to force into wingers (Berry, Dev, Tunstill, even Lyons lined up on the wing in round 1 I think).

Something that I've seen mentioned over the years during the Fagan era is that the coaches don't necessarily value the wing.

When we had only one way of getting the ball in the 50, which often involved Robbo punting the ball as far and inaccurately as possible, the team would always pass the ball to Robbo or Bags whenever they could. Ever since our followers got good, and Bags got put into the inside more regularly, it almost seems like the team doesn't trust whoever is on the wing, or they've been coached not to pass it to a winger.

If it's trust, I can understand that - Berry's disposal has only gotten worse over time and no one else has been played that much on the other wing. But if it's coaching, I can't understand that, especially after Collywobble's wings cleaned us up in the granny. We tend to use our wingers as an extra defender or forward, but never an actual winger.

It also doesn't help that most kids who want to play footy dream of playing as an inside mid or a forward, not the wing. Drafting a winger always seems to be like drafting a duck with a high opinion of itself. They always eventually want to play in the middle as opposed to the wing. This isn't helped by the AFL when they pick the All-Australian team and don't pick actual wingers for the position.

Whatever the plan is with the wings moving forward into 2025, it won't be fixed by next season. The priority in the draft/trade period should be Ashcroft, the other guy whose name I keep forgetting in the academy, and an actual key forward who can fill the gapping McStay sized whole in the forward line. Getting an understudy to Andrews now wouldn't hurt either.

Not that it's related to this thread, but I would like to see a coaching shake up as well this offseason. Not sure who would want to come up to Brisbane from somewhere else, but the coaching team needs new blood. Every season the game changes, but we don't seem to change the gameplan. Part of that is player/personnel related (you can only play with the players you have), and the other part of it is coaching.

 

[mpal6]

Whatever the plan is with the wings moving forward into 2025, it won't be fixed by next season. The priority in the draft/trade period should be Ashcroft, the other guy whose name I keep forgetting in the academy, and an actual key forward who can fill the gapping McStay sized whole in the forward line. Getting an understudy to Andrews now wouldn't hurt either.

All sorted from Academy
the other guy whose name I keep forgetting - Sam Marshall
an actual key forward who can fill the gapping McStay sized whole - Charlie Hewitt, Ty Gallop
Getting an understudy to Andrews - Billy Richardson, Brad McDonald (undrafted KPPs from last year playing VFL)

 

[briztoon]

All sorted from Academy
the other guy whose name I keep forgetting - Sam Marshall
an actual key forward who can fill the gapping McStay sized whole - Charlie Hewitt, Ty Gallop
Getting an understudy to Andrews - Billy Richardson, Brad McDonald (undrafted KPPs from last year playing VFL)

The view I have heard from multiple draft watchers, is that Marshall doesn’t have the outside skills to play as a genuine wing.

He could play the defensive wing role we have seen Berry and MRobbo play.

 

[KissKiss]

Something that I've seen mentioned over the years during the Fagan era is that the coaches don't necessarily value the wing.

When we had only one way of getting the ball in the 50, which often involved Robbo punting the ball as far and inaccurately as possible, the team would always pass the ball to Robbo or Bags whenever they could. Ever since our followers got good, and Bags got put into the inside more regularly, it almost seems like the team doesn't trust whoever is on the wing, or they've been coached not to pass it to a winger.

I do believe this a lot. Sitting in the stands on the 50 and so often you would see a winger make a solid lead into space and the man with the ball would look at them and not make the pass. They would just wait and then go long over them. We just refused to use the wings so often

 

[StevoJenkins]

All sorted from Academy
the other guy whose name I keep forgetting - Sam Marshall
an actual key forward who can fill the gapping McStay sized whole - Charlie Hewitt, Ty Gallop
Getting an understudy to Andrews - Billy Richardson, Brad McDonald (undrafted KPPs from last year playing VFL)

Briztoon has covered what I would've said but better RE: Marshall (will forget his name again).

When I referred to a forward being a need, I was talking about potentially trading in another forward or recruiting a player from the state leagues. Doesn't need to be a marquee full forward, just needs to be able to take a mark or crash the ball to the smalls. Not that the plan shouldn't be to draft for that need, but it will be a couple of seasons before either of those players are ready for AFL footy. The need is current whilst we are somewhat still in the window.

Not sure about the defenders. Someone who is more of a draft/VFL watcher would be more qualified to comment. If it isn't covered in an AFL/SEN/Fox Footy article, I wouldn't be fully across it in that regard.

I do believe this a lot. Sitting in the stands on the 50 and so often you would see a winger make a solid lead into space and the man with the ball would look at them and not make the pass. They would just wait and then go long over them. We just refused to use the wings so often

The long plays are why I keep defaulting to the "we need a marking forward" line. If you're going long, you need someone who can trust to take that mark every time. Daniher gets dragged into every contest (even when sometimes he doesn't have to), Omac usually is behind the play recovering from a ruck contest and Hippy is the man who stays anchored in the 50 but is not that kind of player.

There's nothing wrong with going long, you just need someone who can reliably take that mark, which we don't have right now.

Hopefully Fort isn't being brought into the team tonight to just switch with Oscar on rotation and he actually plays forward. Haven't seen him rest forward in a while, but when he marks and has a shot, he's a pretty reliable shot.

 

[mpal6]

I rate Prior more than I do Jerry nowadays and Fagan won’t give Prior a look in

Prior is the 2024 version of "when will Dev Robertson get a go?"

 

[Nunez]

Prior is the 2024 version of "when will Dev Robertson get a go?"

Brain was more impressive than Prior.

 

[scoman]

I wonder if we could/ should be talking to Willem Drew

28

Willem Drew

Age

25

Ht

188cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

8.7

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

5.6

5star

CL

2.3

4star

No current season stats available

D

18.0

5star

K

9.2

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.8

5star

. Seems like a very dependable player who would give Dunkley some assistance with the heavy lifting (tagging/ tackling/ blocking) in our midfield. Could balance things out with our future midfield (Ashcroft x 2) as well. I was really hoping Dev could be that guy, but he hasn't made a great start to the year, and our coaching staff just haven't set him up to play inside.

 

[briztoon]

I wonder if we could/ should be talking to Willem Drew. Seems like a very dependable player who would give Dunkley some assistance with the heavy lifting (tagging/ tackling/ blocking) in our midfield. Could balance things out with our future midfield (Ashcroft x 2) as well. I was really hoping Dev could be that guy, but he hasn't made a great start to the year, and our coaching staff just haven't set him up to play inside.

Pretty sure he went to school with Berry and McCluggage. Mates and all that.

 

[briztoon]

 

[Squizz89]

Bit of a worry the long term deals given to Hipwood and Payne all of a sudden.

I hope Payne’s is just a temporary (albeit long) form slump. Hipwood I think has been around long enough to make a conclusion that what we get with him is about all we’ll get for his career unfortunately.

 

[Tom14]

Bit of a worry the long term deals given to Hipwood and Payne all of a sudden.

I hope Payne’s is just a temporary (albeit long) form slump. Hipwood I think has been around long enough to make a conclusion that what we get with him is about all we’ll get for his career unfortunately.

If Joe and Charlie were playing well it would be fine. Eric was bad last night but a solid contributor the first 2 games I thought.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Looking forward to 2025; what holes do we have in our 23 to win a premiership

Not interested in posting about tanking or rebuilds

I think our back 7 is pretty settled and solid as well

Andrews and Payne on the talls. Gardiner depth

Doedee 3rd tall, intercept and rebound. Lester depth

Starcevich lockdown small. Answerth depth

Kiddy, McKenna and Wilmot rebound. Prior and Brain depth

Forward line pretty settled with the only issue being a second ruck (ditching the sub and having 5 on the bench would help)

Daniher, Hipwood, Charlie, Linc, Rayner and Bailey. Lohmann, Ryan and Morris depth

First string midfield looks strong; Neale, Dunkley, Ashcroft, Clug and Berry/Fletcher

Ruck is an issue with Oscar all we have

This gives us

B: Doedee Payne Starcevich
HB: Coleman Andrews McKenna
C: Berry Neale McCluggage
HF: Rayner Hipwood Bailey
F: Cameron Daniher McCarthy
Foll: McInerney Dunkley Ashcroft
Bench: Wilmot, Fletcher

The last 2 to 3 spots IMO have to be capable of playing midfield. One is likely to be Levi. Allowing for Rayner and Bailey to stay forward and only occasionally go into the middle

I think we need to find a B grade midfielder with capacity to play forward.

Solving the ruck issue though I don't have answers for. If we had 5 on the bench you'd consider playing Fort or HSmith