List Mgmt. 2024 List Management discussion

[Nathan Barley]

Cam has been a poster boy and mollycoddled since he arrived. He's a great fella and well liked , perfect PR material. We would love him to be a super player , well as we would all players , but Cam would be a great marketing tool.

I suppose this is they year he delivers. If not we should find a role where he is important to the team.

So we're rigging B&F results to pander to Cams ego?

Cmon Martinson you're better than this

The coaches might not be perfect but their opinions are the ones we should value the highest, not brain-dead all australian voters or umpires or numpities on this board

 

[Kickback Flip]

So we're rigging B&F results to pander to Cams ego?

Cmon Martinson you're better than this

The coaches might not be perfect but their opinions are the ones we should value the highest, not brain-dead all australian voters or umpires or numpities on this board

Who do you think had a better season last year out of Daniher and Rayner, or Cameron and Rayner?

 

[Nathan Barley]

Who do you think had a better season last year out of Daniher and Rayner, or Cameron and Rayner?

Daniher and Cameron but I like all of us on this forum don't know nearly enough about footy to be an AFL coach like those who vote on the B&F so I'm more than willing to admit they're more likely to make the right decision

Regardless, even if he gets pushed down to 7th best on our list for last season, he clearly has value

 

[martinson]

So we're rigging B&F results to pander to Cams ego?

Cmon Martinson you're better than this

The coaches might not be perfect but their opinions are the ones we should value the highest, not brain-dead all australian voters or umpires or numpities on this board

Nathan you're great at remembering what other people say.

I seem to remembering you referring to Cam as a dumb footballer , or was it lazy ? , more than once. Apologies if that wasn't you

Now you're all over him coming 5th in the B/F. Using that as a retort to anyone that suggests the same things you have.

No one referred to any rigging in the B/F but you're a bit naive if you don't think coaches and those close to any club aren't subject to biases and seeing things the way they want them to be. They also have favourites .Same in any organisation . I'm saying they overrated his effort last year. I think most supporters who watched all the games would agree. No one's questioning their integrity or that they're in a good position to judge .

 

[3KZ is Football]

Nathan you're great at remembering what other people say.

I seem to remembering you referring to Cam as a dumb footballer , or was it lazy ? , more than once. Apologies if that wasn't you

Now you're all over him coming 5th in the B/F. Using that as a retort to anyone that suggests the same things you have.

No one referred to any rigging in the B/F but you're a bit naive if you don't think coaches and those close to any club aren't subject to biases and seeing things the way they want them to be. They also have favourites .Same in any organisation . I'm saying they overrated his effort last year. I think most supporters who watched all the games would agree. No one's questioning their integrity or that they're in a good position to judge .

100%

 

[Nathan Barley]

Nathan you're great at remembering what other people say.

I seem to remembering you referring to Cam as a dumb footballer , or was it lazy ? , more than once. Apologies if that wasn't you

Now you're all over him coming 5th in the B/F. Using that as a retort to anyone that suggests the same things you have.

No one referred to any rigging in the B/F but you're a bit naive if you don't think coaches and those close to any club aren't subject to biases and seeing things the way they want them to be. They also have favourites .Same in any organisation . I'm saying they overrated his effort last year. I think most supporters who watched all the games would agree. No one's questioning their integrity or that they're in a good position to judge .

I think he's a dumb footballer but clearly the coaches see a lot more than I do

Extremely lazy to sit there and if someone or a panel of highly paid experts disagree with you that it is due to their bias

Surely if Cam was their pet it wouldn't have been the first year he has polled well. Far more likely he's improved in a lot or the selfless parts of his game that fans don't notice but the coaches do

Maybe all club decisions should come as a result of asking the member base and we can stop employing these coaches

 

[martinson]

I think he's a dumb footballer but clearly the coaches see a lot more than I do

Extremely lazy to sit there and if someone or a panel of highly paid experts disagree with you that it is due to their bias

Surely if Cam was their pet it wouldn't have been the first year he has polled well. Far more likely he's improved in a lot or the selfless parts of his game that fans don't notice but the coaches do

Maybe all club decisions should come as a result of asking the member base and we can stop employing these coaches

You're extrapolating unnecessarily.

 

[Nathan Barley]

You're extrapolating unnecessarily.

You're just biased

 

[martinson]

Clearly the coaches did see more in his performances last year than anyone else. So he has selfless parts of his game. I'm happy about and prepared to accept that. I think we did say he'd improved a bit last year.

If we can't express our opinions on things like this why bother being here at all. I don't swallow everything coaches say and do. Nor do you.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Cam was 5th in the B&F

Let's look at the options;

He deserved to be 5th -> he shouldn't be dropped or traded because he's a good footballer

He didn't deserve to be 5th-> he won't be dropped or traded because the coaches think he's a good footballer

 

[martinson]

Cam was 5th in the B&F

Let's look at the options;

He deserved to be 5th -> he shouldn't be dropped or traded because he's a good footballer

He didn't deserve to be 5th-> he won't be dropped or traded because the coaches think he's a good footballer

So what.

All I ever said was that getting 5th in the B/F was overrating his performance last year. Whether he's dropped ,traded or a good footballer are separate issues which I've also alluded to in previous posts i.e. I don't think he should be dropped , I'm open to trading him if his performances don't improve from here , he's a good footballer when things go his way and an average one for a portion of the time and occasionally a poor one.

Like everyone else I hope he steps up to to be the player some have hyped him to be and there'd be no better time than now because we need him to. And after all this you'd think the Gods will be with him this Thursday.

 

[Nathan Barley]

So what.

All I ever said was that getting 5th in the B/F was overrating his performance last year. Whether he's dropped ,traded or a good footballer are separate issues which I've also alluded to in previous posts i.e. I don't think he should be dropped , I'm open to trading him if his performances don't improve from here , he's a good footballer when things go his way and an average one for a portion of the time and occasionally a poor one.

Like everyone else I hope he steps up to to be the player some have hyped him to be and there'd be no better time than now because we need him to. And after all this you'd think the Gods will be with him this Thursday.

And I'm saying you're expecting way too much and perhaps he's doing a lot right that you're not seeing

If what you're saying is accurate he's worth bugger all anyway so what's the point?

 

[Tom14]

Who's on the table? Full list of 2024 free agents revealed

The AFL has confirmed its list of players that qualify for free agency in 2024

www.afl.com.au

FA list - confirmation clug AND berry are restricted free agents.

 

[JasRulz63]

Who's on the table? Full list of 2024 free agents revealed

The AFL has confirmed its list of players that qualify for free agency in 2024

www.afl.com.au

FA list - confirmation clug AND berry are restricted free agents.

Puts Berry's contract this year in the top 25% at the club (~top 10-11)

 

[M Malice]

I think he's a dumb footballer but clearly the coaches see a lot more than I do

Extremely lazy to sit there and if someone or a panel of highly paid experts disagree with you that it is due to their bias

Surely if Cam was their pet it wouldn't have been the first year he has polled well. Far more likely he's improved in a lot or the selfless parts of his game that fans don't notice but the coaches do

Maybe all club decisions should come as a result of asking the member base and we can stop employing these coaches

We're a bunch of AntiRayners on this board, 98% of Coaches agree Cam is a legit player.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Puts Berry's contract this year in the top 25% at the club (~top 10-11)

If that’s the case Berry is getting paid way over the odds.

 

[Elixuh]

If that’s the case Berry is getting paid way over the odds.

He is at the end of a long term deal. And think about our list. Who is getting paid?

We have young talent, old talent, talent like McCarthy and ah chee who are either under appreciated or injury riddled at their previous club, average afl list talent. That is a big portion of our list.

It kinda makes sense he would be in that bracket.

 

[dlanod]

Puts Berry's contract this year in the top 25% at the club (~top 10-11)

Not exactly a surprise. Look at when he signed his contract and that a few of our more consistent performers are in "cheap" positions (McCarthy, Starcevich) or not in high demand (Oscar) he would easily be top 10 or 12 in average contract.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Merrett-Murray Medal


2023 Brownlow Medal Votes

I would have rated Neale, Daniher, Ashcroft, Andrews, Cameron, Bailey, Dunkley, McCluggage and Coleman above Rayner in terms of performance last year. The fact that the Best and Fairest is a coaches award means that it is more open to #CPS (Coach’s Pet Syndrome).

That said, 2023 was Rayner’s best season to date, although he still hasn’t shaken the tag as a low possession (career average 12.55 disposals), low scoreboard impact player (0.91 goal average) who goes missing either completely or for extended periods in big games.

Rayners best influence came when he replaced Gunston.
Why did we change it, wasn't like there aren't players to go through the middle.
Bailey , I can't say for sure why he doesn't impact as often as he should.
My guess is he is just not wired to do the chasing or hard stuff as much as we need him to.
Throw in being a shithouse tackler and he will not influence unless we have the footy.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Not exactly a surprise. Look at when he signed his contract and that a few of our more consistent performers are in "cheap" positions (McCarthy, Starcevich) or not in high demand (Oscar) he would easily be top 10 or 12 in average contract.

Agreed. But we wouldn’t double down on him when he is negotiating his next deal.

 

[Elixuh]

Rayners best influence came when he replaced Gunston.
Why did we change it, wasn't like there aren't players to go through the middle.
Bailey , I can't say for sure why he doesn't impact as often as he should.
My guess is he is just not wired to do the chasing or hard stuff as much as we need him to.
Throw in being a shithouse tackler and he will not influence unless we have the footy.

Because we have a relatively same same midfield balance and Bailey and Rayner can provide important points of difference.

Re the bold, even if we are to assume that is correct, plenty of players who are lauded as in the top echelon of the competition fit that mould, eg de goey.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Because we have a relatively same same midfield balance and Bailey and Rayner can provide important points of difference.

Re the bold, even if we are to assume that is correct, plenty of players who are lauded as in the top echelon of the competition fit that mould, eg de goey.

Agree De goey is in the mould of what we'd like Rayner to be , a brute who is able to turn a game from the stoppage.
Not looking good so far, but he still could be a bigger influence at stoppages forward of centre.

Bayley , gees , this guy should be able to run all over the field, we need him to be that player, he has done this before and sometimes does.
We have f..k all spread from the stoppage , is this the coaches fault?
I still rate Bails , but as a few of my teachers wrote in my report cards, Bailey is not applying himself as hard as he should be and easily distracted.
Ok not easily distracted , but he hasn't improved much on his flaws (tackling) and most importantly offers sfa as a cover defender.
I'm going to be honest .
I think some of these players flaws are part and parcel of the way they have been coached or our gameplan or simply lack of spread in our game.
Wasn't that surposed to be a thing we worked on pfft.

Rayner as a point of difference in the middle.
Maybe if he gets the ball otherwise it's away again down the wrong end.

 

[briztoon]

Puts Berry's contract this year in the top 25% at the club (~top 10-11)

Only need to back end the last year of a contract, to put him the top 25% (which makes him in the top 9 players on the senior list), to trigger restricted free agency.

Sydney are champions of doing this.

 

[Elixuh]

Agree De goey is in the mould of what we'd like Rayner to be , a brute who is able to turn a game from the stoppage.
Not looking good so far, but he still could be a bigger influence at stoppages forward of centre.

Bayley , gees , this guy should be able to run all over the field, we need him to be that player, he has done this before and sometimes does.
We have f..k all spread from the stoppage , is this the coaches fault?
I still rate Bails , but as a few of my teachers wrote in my report cards, Bailey is not applying himself as hard as he should be and easily distracted.
Ok not easily distracted , but he hasn't improved much on his flaws (tackling) and most importantly offers sfa as a cover defender.
I'm going to be honest .
I think some of these players flaws are part and parcel of the way they have been coached or our gameplan or simply lack of spread in our game.
Wasn't that surposed to be a thing we worked on pfft.

Rayner as a point of difference in the middle.
Maybe if he gets the ball otherwise it's away again down the wrong end.

Rayner has clearly transformed his fitness in the offseason and his repeat efforts are drastically better. You don’t pull the plug on Rayner in the midfield after 2 rounds, noting he hasn’t even really been given big spells there yet.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Rayner has clearly transformed his fitness in the offseason and his repeat efforts are drastically better. You don’t pull the plug on Rayner in the midfield after 2 rounds, noting he hasn’t even really been given big spells there yet.

Ok fair enough. Give him cameos in the midfield.
So maybe if he does cameos in the centre then make it so that he has the licence to bust the pack GET Ball.

Tell Oscar to favour him is that even possible , it's up to Cam to find the pill.
Tomorrow night we'll have Neile back , so hoping some unity or familiarity for our midfild cohesion.