Hodge debate put to rest

[The Candy Man]

Jacqui9, it's great to see someone with the passion to defend the Hawks simply because you love the club. That's always good enough reason for me.

It seems there are some Hawk fans who are taking great delight in bagging the club, and this is one concept I will never understand.

Keep following those Hawks, and when we are up there again, we will know we were among those who don't follow a club simply because they are top.

Go the Hawks!!!!!

 

[Hawka Deano]

Originally posted by The Candy Man
Jacqui9, it's great to see someone with the passion to defend the Hawks simply because you love the club. That's always good enough reason for me.

It seems there are some Hawk fans who are taking great delight in bagging the club, and this is one concept I will never understand.

Keep following those Hawks, and when we are up there again, we will know we were among those who don't follow a club simply because they are top.

Go the Hawks!!!!!

Here, Here!!!!

 

[jess-jess]

Originally posted by Becker
Kicks goals? Since that bag of 5 he booted against Brisbane he hasn't put too many through. I'm sick of hearing about Judd. How about we wait for him to actually achieve something in footy before hanging the superstar tag on him huh?

Games: around 50
Best & Fairests: Nil.
Brownlows: Nil
Premierships: Nil
Norm Smith Medals: Nil
Any other awards of relevence: None that I can recall.

If his career ended tomorrow due to a debilitating injury, history would forget him.

He may become a superstar but he's not one yet. Don't get too carried away people. He has a long way to go.

he might not have won a B&F but coming 3rd and 2nd in your first 2 years ain't bad. by this years end he will have won one.

represented Australia v Ireland in his first year.

Vic Captain in his 3rd year

Runner - up in the Norwich rising star award in 2002

Judd won the the AFL Coaches Association Award last year for the best young player in the competition.

as for goals kicked, so far in his career he's kicked 61 goals in 58 games for an average of 1.1 per/game

il'd think that he has actually achieved a lot in the last 2 and a half years and quite deserving of all the praise he gets

 

[Becker]

Originally posted by jess-jess
il'd think that he has actually achieved a lot in the last 2 and a half years and quite deserving of all the praise he gets

Yeah, well until he's achieved something BIG, generally associated with superstars, I'll place him right where he belongs. In the catagory of a kid with potential.

And 1 whole goal per game, that's AWESOME!!!! Nobody has ever been able to average 1 goal per game before.

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by Becker
Yeah, well until he's achieved something BIG, generally associated with superstars, I'll place him right where he belongs. In the catagory of a kid with potential.

And 1 whole goal per game, that's AWESOME!!!! Nobody has ever been able to average 1 goal per game before.

Actually, for a full time midfielder to average upwards of a goal a game over their career thus far is pretty damned awesome, its something that Voss, Buckley, Cousins, Black, Crawford and every midfielder on Hawthorn's list at the moment hasn't managed to do. In fact the only full time midfielder I can find who has managed it over the course of their career is Andrew McLeod.

I realise the Judd/Hodge thing is a touchy issue for Hawthorn people (and well it should be!) but for ffs.
At aged 20, Judd is in the top 10 in pretty much all the relevant stat categories for a midfielder, a performance that is unparallelled in recent times. He's one of the premier hard ball winners in the competition (whoops, Jacqui), a ball magnet with flawless disposal and an ability to kick goals on par with Andrew McLeod.

On current form, he's one of the best few midfielders in the country, and a red hot chance for the brownlow this season. Name another 20 year old who has achieved comparably, and I'll act suitably impressed. What he's put on the park already makes him a star, and what he has left in terms of potential would scare the **** out of me if I didn't follow west coast.

Hodge ahead of Judd and Ball was a huge draft blunder. All clubs make that kind of mistake sooner or later, but trying to excuse it by suggesting that Hodge is even in the same arena as Judd is just plain hilarious.

 

[tige19]

Originally posted by Mead

Hodge ahead of Judd and Ball was a huge draft blunder. All clubs make that kind of mistake sooner or later, but trying to excuse it by suggesting that Hodge is even in the same arena as Judd is just plain hilarious.

Well said and i agree with your whole observation 100% just try telling some (notice the word some) of these blinded supporters its a joke.

cheers

 

[Yardie]

As a Hawks Supporter in the West I get to see all the West Coast games on the telly.

Judd is phenomenal. Continually breaks through two - three tackles when others would have been stopped by the first. Racks up possessions everywhere and has good disposal skills. Fantastic footballer allround.

At the moment Judd is leaps and bounds ahead of Hodge (sorry to say that but true). A lot of talk here revolves around how bad the footy department is and the recruiting of the past few years included. So you can't say that the recruitment department is stuffed and then say that they got the Hodge decision right. Just can't have it both ways.

Hodge shows good potential but hasn't been given (IMO) the opportunity to grow partly due to injuries and partly due to where he has been played. We wanted a midfielder, we drafted a midfielder so we should play him in the midfield.

In time Hodge may be better than Judd but at the moment he has a long way to go to catch up.

 

[Ramma]

Originally posted by Mead

Hodge ahead of Judd and Ball was a huge draft blunder. All clubs make that kind of mistake sooner or later, but trying to excuse it by suggesting that Hodge is even in the same arena as Judd is just plain hilarious.

And according to the manager of both players, a blunder 2/3rds of the teams were prepared to make at the time.
Cannot argue that Judd has the score on the board. Great player, but not a superstar (yet). I think what some Hawthorn people (the rational ones anyway!) are trying to relate to the rest of the football community is that Hodge has got plenty to offer on and off the field, despite his bad run with injury, which doesn't seem to be apparent to most as yet. His demeanour on the field as a potential leader and captain is obvious to those who watch him closely. Also having to play in positions foreign to him, 'for the good of the team', is curtailing his advancement somewhat (as Yardie has stated) - how would Judd have gone so far having played FB, CHB, CHF and FF as well as every other position in between?? Pretty well I dare say, but he hasn't - Hodge has. Let Hodge play even half a season straight in the midfield and I bet the discussion would be more than a little different.
In the eyes of the football world, I dare say this discussion will eventually be addressed as something akin to the 'hare and the tortoise' (probably in more ways than one!!). Would love to have Judd, but am happy for the future to have Hodge.

 

[Yardie]

Let's hope all those Hird v Buckley debates on the main board turn into Hodge v Judd in the years to come.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

I will not deny Judd's brilliant performances, thus far, as a 20-y-o.

But I beg the questions, how would he perform in the present cellar-dweller Hawks team?

How would he perform in a team and be surrounded by flat-footed players, several of whom run at a half-hearted gait and even appear to stand back to watch opposition forwards, not raising a sweat, kick goals at will?

All this is coming out of my nightmares after watching last Saturday's game against the Pies.

 

[HIG]

Anyone who reckons that Hodge is better than Judd at the moment is deluded, but to say that it was a huge recruiting blunder to take Hodge at 1 is premature.

Statistically (keeping in mind that Hodge's versatility has seen him abused all over the park by Schwab) Hodge is up there with any player in the comp in terms of possessions for minutes in the middle, as my previous post demonstrated.

How has Hodge compared this year to the 'top 10' players from the same draft THIS YEAR?

1 - Judd is the clear standout - 22.8 ppg, 0.85 g
2 - SAM MITCHELL - 19.63 ppg
3 - Dal Santo - 18.86 ppg, 0.4 g
4 - Ball - 18.57 ppg, 0.5g
5 - Kelly - 17.85ppg
6 - HODGE - 15 ppg, 1g
7 - Ablett - 11.8 ppg, 1.8g
8 - Clarke - 11ppg
9 - Sampi 10ppg
10 - Polak 8.8ppg, 4.5mpg

Now consider this:
-Hodge played the first month of football with a broken foot (injections before every game).

-Hodge is played in the middle for 60 minutes less per game than the top 5 disposal winners,

-Despite playing less than half of what his counterparts do in the middle, he is only averaging 3 possessions per game less than Kelly, Ball and Dal Santo -> negligable. If anything it shows that Hodge finds the ball comfortably, even better than said players.

-As expected, given his time forward he averages more goals per game than those higher than him on possession.

-Playing forward in the worst side in the league (less I50 than any other side) obviously means he has with less opportunity to find the ball.

-Given the ineptitude of our other forwards, Hodge has played a fair chunk of the year at CHF or FF - on bigger and stronger opponents.

Hodge will get better and better, all he needs is to settle into the team and he will be as good as, if not better than every player in his draft (excluding Judd).

Even then, they are only three years into their careers...a lot can and will happen over the next decade.

 

[Katthawk]

Dearie me! I don't think we'll be losing nor giving away Hodge anytime soon. He does have free will though.

Having said that I had the strangest dream the other night. We accidently managed to snare the Judd by trading a draft pick or two or maybe it was a draft pick and a player. Anyhow we got them both.

Ah well, at this stage I'll be happy with one and dream of maybe the two. Who knows!!

 

[tige19]

This is getting very pathetic now, we cant judge these 2 simply cause Judd is 100 times the plaer Hodge is.

2003-

Hodge: 15g 12.9p 10goals 3.6m

Judd: 23g 18.1p 29goals 2.3m

2004-

Hodge: 7g 15p 7goals 2.6m

Judd: 14g 22.8 13goals 2.5m

I know who i would prefer at this stage thats for sure, in saying that Hodge will be a very good footballer but he wont be Chris Judd.

cheers

 

[The Candy Man]

I have had a gutful of these meaningless comparisons between Hodge and Judd. Who cares? Judd plays for a club named West Coast. I don't care about West Coast, and care less about any of their players.

All that matters to me is how well Hodge plays for the Hawks. If Judd is running around on his own getting tons of kicks for West Coast I really don't care.

And I am so tired of the self appointed geniuses who are able to make the choice between them after they've both played at AFL level. They cry, "Why did the Hawks pick Hodge? Judd is a better player". Well, I have a scoop for you guys, unless you put your entry in with the 6 winning numbers BEFORE the draw, you don't win Division One in X-Lotto. No point being wise in hindsight.

I couldn't care less if Judd's a better player, all I care about is the development of Luke Hodge with the Hawks. We've got a good young player, I just wish everyone would get off back.

 

[tige19]

Originally posted by The Candy Man
I have had a gutful of these meaningless comparisons between Hodge and Judd. Who cares? Judd plays for a club named West Coast. I don't care about West Coast, and care less about any of their players.

All that matters to me is how well Hodge plays for the Hawks. If Judd is running around on his own getting tons of kicks for West Coast I really don't care.

And I am so tired of the self appointed geniuses who are able to make the choice between them after they've both played at AFL level. They cry, "Why did the Hawks pick Hodge? Judd is a better player". Well, I have a scoop for you guys, unless you put your entry in with the 6 winning numbers BEFORE the draw, you don't win Division One in X-Lotto. No point being wise in hindsight.

I couldn't care less if Judd's a better player, all I care about is the development of Luke Hodge with the Hawks. We've got a good young player, I just wish everyone would get off back.

Shut up mate, next your gonna be telling me about how good Daniel Elstone was and how we should only worry about him i mean we only used our top 20 draft pic to draft him.
Oh and how is Steven Greene and Tim Clarke going?? what about Matthew Dent and Kingsly Hunter.
The point that some of us (Andrew and my self) are trying to make is that Hawthorn have made mistakes not 1 or 2 or even the odd 1 every now and then but massive blunders on many occasions and im very very sick of it.
How good is it knowing we will be paying Nick Holland another 400k next season geee well spent money, make sure you keep me informed on how he is progressing buddy.

cheers

 

[Becker]

Originally posted by tige19
Shut up mate, next your gonna be telling me about how good Daniel Elstone was and how we should only worry about him i mean we only used our top 20 draft pic to draft him.
Oh and how is Steven Greene and Tim Clarke going?? what about Matthew Dent and Kingsly Hunter.
The point that some of us (Andrew and my self) are trying to make is that Hawthorn have made mistakes not 1 or 2 or even the odd 1 every now and then but massive blunders on many occasions and im very very sick of it.
How good is it knowing we will be paying Nick Holland another 400k next season geee well spent money, make sure you keep me informed on how he is progressing buddy.

cheers

You're telling someone to shut up? How arrogant are you? Or more to the point .. how STUPID are you? I am tired of all you smart arses who are so clever in hindsight. The Hawks made no mistake in selecting Hodge, he was the number 1 ranked junior at the time.

If you think Judd is so wonderful, or more to the point, if you think Hawthorn are so terrible, then go and support another club. We don't need people like you stinking up the place with your negativity. You are so clever aren't you? I didn't hear ANYONE at the time suggesting Hodge was a bad pick .. least of all YOU.

 

[Grendel]

For the most part this threads been reasonably civil, KEEP it that way hey people.

Fwiw, Judds an outstanding talent, hindsight says right now you'd take him numero uno if you could.

Saying that, Hodge IS a very good footballer that's Captained a team (at 19) is physical and has genuine footy nous.

Long term he will be an excellent player for us. I care less about what Judds doing than what Hodge is because Hodge plays for US.

That's all.

 

[jacqui9]

tige, go follow the friggin West Coast Eagles if you are that in love with Judd.

Hodge will be better than Judd AS A COMPLETE PLAYER. I mean this, because at such a tender age, he is the extent of our leadership group at the moment.

In fact, I havent taken much notice of Judd at all. The eagles are not going all that fantastically. He is one player, BIG DEAL.

In hindsight - I would still take Hodge. He is a wonderful leader and he is a tough, hard at it bloke - which we really lack. Judd skirts around the packs and is more of a flanker type, whilst Hodge has that grunt that we need.

But dont let it stop you from being a totall ass*ole. Obviously you have a very insecure personality and you hate Hawthorn that much, that you stick the boots in when necessary. Bugger off, because we dont need morons like you supporting our club.

PS - sorry Gren but it had to be said.

 

[My Man Croad]

Oi Idiot

jacqui9 BACK OFF with the Insults and the Language if I wanted to read TRASH i would go a buy some trashy mag.

Everyone is entitled to a opinion and there has been many on here that I have totally disagreed with but have not resorted to the gutter like some.

This current situation and team at HAWTHORN is the worst I have ever seen and I have no desire to sit by and watch this sort of rubbish. But let me tell you that doesn't mean that I will give up following them, I just don't support this sort of mediocre garbage that we are dished out week in week out by the current team and coaching staff.

Just one more thing I am interested to know what sort of positives you so called Thick and Thin supporters got out of the Collingwood Belting??? Please don't quote Schwab as I will be SICK.

 

[jacqui9]

Re: Oi Idiot

Originally posted by My Man Croad
jacqui9 BACK OFF with the Insults and the Language if I wanted to read TRASH i would go a buy some trashy mag.

Everyone is entitled to a opinion and there has been many on here that I have totally disagreed with but have not resorted to the gutter like some.

This current situation and team at HAWTHORN is the worst I have ever seen and I have no desire to sit by and watch this sort of rubbish. But let me tell you that doesn't mean that I will give up following them, I just don't support this sort of mediocre garbage that we are dished out week in week out by the current team and coaching staff.

Just one more thing I am interested to know what sort of positives you so called Thick and Thin supporters got out of the Collingwood Belting??? Please don't quote Schwab as I will be SICK.

Insults and language, bloody hell what double standards you two idiots have. So it is OK for Tige to call people names and insult them. Why dont you tell him to back off everyone else. In fact, he started it, by having a dig at me first. Though I guess you have selective reading.

Positives, well Nick Ries was fantastic for a start. I really saw him go in and hard at the ball. BTW I didnt once mention that I wasnt happy with the Hawks on the weekend. I just said that it isnt fair to dig the boots in on a 19 year old kid who has struggled through injury.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

Originally posted by jacqui9


In hindsight - I would still take Hodge. He is a wonderful leader and he is a tough, hard at it bloke - which we really lack. Judd skirts around the packs and is more of a flanker type, whilst Hodge has that grunt that we need.

Yes, jaqui9, there are receivers who get some glowing stats, attract votes, sometimes without raising a sweat (Judd) and there is the player (Hodge) with grunt, rugged, up and under, having a red hot go and leading the way, and, boy, do our Hawks need some leadership. Give me Hodgy any day.

Cheer up everone. Gazza.

 

[IDGAF]

Thought i might remind you hawkers of an interesting little scenario that might have escaped most of you .
Should Richmonds and Hawthorns positions on the ladder remain the same for the rest of the season , should Hodge remain "disgruntled" and walk out on the club ,Richmond would have first dibs on him in the the pre - season draft and would pick him up for nicks.
Word around the campfire is Miller has already had a little chat to his manager.
Forget about your trade deals people , this one is on the house

 

[feher]

Originally posted by IDGAF
Thought i might remind you hawkers of an interesting little scenario that might have escaped most of you .
Should Richmonds and Hawthorns positions on the ladder remain the same for the rest of the season , should Hodge remain "disgruntled" and walk out on the club ,Richmond would have first dibs on him in the the pre - season draft and would pick him up for nicks.

what the hell are you talking about, check the ladder lately?

 

[saaam]

Originally posted by IDGAF
Richmond would have first dibs on him in the the pre - season draft and would pick him up for nicks.
Word around the campfire is Miller has already had a little chat to his manager.
Forget about your trade deals people , this one is on the house

bzzzzz ........ incorrect answer. Hawks will finish last and have first pick in the pre season draft. Hodge is going nowhere and will be co-vice captain next year if I had any say in the matter.
Miller can go please himself really and you can go help him.

 

[Buster the hawk]

Originally posted by IDGAF
Thought i might remind you hawkers of an interesting little scenario that might have escaped most of you .
Should Richmonds and Hawthorns positions on the ladder remain the same for the rest of the season , should Hodge remain "disgruntled" and walk out on the club ,Richmond would have first dibs on him in the the pre - season draft and would pick him up for nicks.
Word around the campfire is Miller has already had a little chat to his manager.
Forget about your trade deals people , this one is on the house

You may well be correct in saying that Hodge is disgruntled with Hawthorn & with good reason given our performance this year but i also believe him to be a rather intelligent young guy so why on earth would he walk out on Hawthorn only to go to a historically pathetic organization like the Richmond FC ?