Ultimate Glory JON O'RAWK is now a Hourke

[driftyhunter]

What?

What?

 

[Steven Tyler]

Can't see anyone directly asking for Simpkin.. he really is average at his absolute best. Would settle for a swap of third rounders to be honest.

Kidding right?
You'd swap Simpkin and our third for someone's third?

Simpkin is perfect depth, and as this year showed, you need depth if you are any chance of a flag
Squads win Premierships
Can play a variety of roles, and is the best sub in the AFL
Unless he wants out, he stays, no question

 

[ObieWan]

Kidding right?
You'd swap Simpkin and our third for someone's third?

Simpkin is perfect depth, and as this year showed, you need depth if you are any chance of a flag
Squads win Premierships
Can play a variety of roles, and is the best sub in the AFL
Unless he wants out, he stays, no question

Yeah, I really don't have much time for him to be honest. Agree he's decent depth, but he's not (in my opinion) the best sub candidate at Hawthorn, let alone in the AFL. We've notoriously chosen poor subs since the departure of Savage (and there is a case for him starting during his sub days) but a fit Hartung is light years ahead of Simpkin in terms of impact and more importantly skill.

 

[grumbleguts]

No Hartung is elite in fitness. It's his strongest attribute. Why would you use him for a quarter if his best parameter is his ability to run the entire game. Typically it's the guys with high skills but small tank you want as subs.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Yeah, I really don't have much time for him to be honest. Agree he's decent depth, but he's not (in my opinion) the best sub candidate at Hawthorn, let alone in the AFL. We've notoriously chosen poor subs since the departure of Savage (and there is a case for him starting during his sub days) but a fit Hartung is light years ahead of Simpkin in terms of impact and more importantly skill.

Simpkins' value as a depth player at Hawthorn far outweighs anything we might obtain by way of trade value!....He is 26, almost 27, & is only just now coming into the peak of his powers as a footballer.

 

[dipper86]

Yeah, I really don't have much time for him to be honest. Agree he's decent depth, but he's not (in my opinion) the best sub candidate at Hawthorn, let alone in the AFL. We've notoriously chosen poor subs since the departure of Savage (and there is a case for him starting during his sub days) but a fit Hartung is light years ahead of Simpkin in terms of impact and more importantly skill.

I'm not even sure if you've been actually watching games. Simpkin has been our best sub for what's been available.
A subs role is to have an influence on the game in a short period of time, he does that, he comes on and has 10 possies a quarter at times, most of the subs going around get very little of the pill nor do they have any influence on the game.
So if he's coming on the ground is he providing run, is he getting his hands on the ball....Thats a resounding yes.

 

[eldorado]

Simpkin has been a great sub.

He's not the most skilled player, and will struggle for game time this year if we have a better run with injuries, but he did his job well this year when called upon.

BigFooty confirmation bias continues unabated...

 

[grumbleguts]

Simpkin was subbed on 9 times and played the entirety of 9 games. He averaged 16.17 possessions a game. If he'd played the entirety of all 18 games, (given that he was subbed on at 3qt in all games he was sub), he averages 26 per entire game. That's pretty decent.

 

[Davo-27]

pick is alright when you consider that O'Rouke is 20 years old. Wouldn't think you could do a whole lot better with the pick in the draft.

this is basically going to be argued, over the next 5 years, was jono o'rourke worth the number 19 picked player.....going to be interesting if its another Dunstan we miss out on isnt it?.........

will jono o'rourke work out better than 1 of these lads? http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-07/phantom-form-guide-october-edition

 

[dixyland]

We have no picks until 43 or something like that now, is that a concern?

I'm just taking it that O'Rourke is our first round draft pick.

 

[Oddhawk]

I'm just taking it that O'Rourke is our first round draft pick.

This is a unique but vey clever way to look at it

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Will be really interesting to see how this develops. He seems to be an A grade athlete but explosive pace more than elite endurance.

With Hill, Smith, Hartung, JOR, etc we are certainly upping the athletic qualities of our future team.

Expect he'll spend most of next year at BH, possibly with some sub opportunities.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Yeah, I really don't have much time for him to be honest. Agree he's decent depth, but he's not (in my opinion) the best sub candidate at Hawthorn, let alone in the AFL. We've notoriously chosen poor subs since the departure of Savage (and there is a case for him starting during his sub days) but a fit Hartung is light years ahead of Simpkin in terms of impact and more importantly skill.

I won't get into an argument with you, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if Brett Ratten says Simpkin is the best sub in the AFL, well that's good enough for me
Very stiff to miss the GF as the sub, be he obviously was going to make way for Cyril who wasn't going to play the full 4 quarters

We won't get anything anywhere near comparable value to Simpkin with a swap of 3rd round draft picks

 

[threesixpio]

I won't get into an argument with you, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if Brett Ratten says Simpkin is the best sub in the AFL, well that's good enough for me
Very stiff to miss the GF as the sub, be he obviously was going to make way for Cyril who wasn't going to play the full 4 quarters

We won't get anything anywhere near comparable value to Simpkin with a swap of 3rd round draft picks

I actually agree that his time might be up. We have plenty of up and coming mids who will piss off if not given opportunities. I'm not biased. Just my view

 

[mess]

I won't get into an argument with you, everyone's entitled to their opinion, but if Brett Ratten says Simpkin is the best sub in the AFL, well that's good enough for me
Very stiff to miss the GF as the sub, be he obviously was going to make way for Cyril who wasn't going to play the full 4 quarters

We won't get anything anywhere near comparable value to Simpkin with a swap of 3rd round draft picks

I actually agree that his time might be up. We have plenty of up and coming mids who will piss off if not given opportunities. I'm not biased. Just my view

I agree with both of you. Simpkin is a good player, potentially very good, but him playing out his career as a professional sub at Hawthorn is not the best thing for either party. He deserves a spot in an AFL starting 21 and we need to be using the sub spot to develop some of our next gen midfielders.

If Simpkin is the best sub in the league, and I think he is, then Anderson is not far behind.

 

[Roddy]

I'm just taking it that O'Rourke is our first round draft pick.

Yeah I can live with that.

 

[tommyk72]

Yeah I can live with that.

This is the way I look at all trades that involve draft picks. Would we have gotten equal, better or less output from the player we would have taken at that number in the draft. Keeps it fairly simple!

 

[Roddy]

This is the way I look at all trades that involve draft picks. Would we have gotten equal, better or less output from the player we would have taken at that number in the draft. Keeps it fairly simple!

Essentially we're getting a 20yo draft pick with 9 games and at least one pre-season under his belt.

 

[threesixpio]

I agree with both of you. Simpkin is a good player, potentially very good, but him playing out his career as a professional sub at Hawthorn is not the best thing for either party. He deserves a spot in an AFL starting 21 and we need to be using the sub spot to develop some of our next gen midfielders.

If Simpkin is the best sub in the league, and I think he is, then Anderson is not far behind.

Yep. I have really liked how the club have built depth so well with each position/role. Trading in a mid and defender likely means one of each goes. The draft will likely be about youth.
Anderson, WX, O'Rourke, Hartung, Woody and Hallahan need game time next year and Simpkin is in their way.
And for all the reasons people are talking up Simpkin are all the reasons people are underselling him trade wise.
I think he has done his job brilliantly so Im not bagging him out at all as a player. But could he play much more than the sub role long term?

 

[TallyHawk]

Yep. I have really liked how the club have built depth so well with each position/role. Trading in a mid and defender likely means one of each goes. The draft will likely be about youth.
Anderson, WX, O'Rourke, Hartung, Woody and Hallahan need game time next year and Simpkin is in their way.
And for all the reasons people are talking up Simpkin are all the reasons people are underselling him trade wise.
I think he has done his job brilliantly so Im not bagging him out at all as a player. But could he play much more than the sub role long term?

I get the angst about Simpkin getting the sub role so often, I firmly believe there is a logjam of more talented players biding their time at BoxHill. We need to review the sub position and get more AFL exposure to the likes of Hartung, Woody, Mitch, Litherland and Sicily. I personally don't think Simpkin influences enough contests when he comes on as sub.

 

[Harry Yorkie]

I'm just taking it that O'Rourke is our first round draft pick.

Yep, same here, he's our number 2 draft pick when you don't have a number 2 draft pick.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

Doubt there would be much better value player on our list than Simpkin. Arguably Spangher but I would argue that Simpkin is better performed. Simpkin would be on close to bottom wages. Langford I guess is the surprise packet on bottom wages but that cant last for long. Puopolo also worth his weight in gold.

Simpkin can play as a centre square mid and get 25 touches. Has some pace. Has a mature body.

As a sub he comes on and wins the pill straight away.

Played as a defensive fwd this year on Malceksi. Can role play.

Can play forward and kick goals.

After another preseason he may improve again - this does not seem to be a consideration for a lot of people who think he has peaked. There is a knock on his disposal at times and I would like him to work on his tackling which puts him back into competition with the names mentioned above but if he tidies these up then he can certainly be best 22. If we move him on we will be of the belief he has no improvement left and that there will be players in his group which will go past him in 2015.

 

[threesixpio]

Doubt there would be much better value player on our list than Simpkin. Arguably Spangher but I would argue that Simpkin is better performed. Simpkin would be on close to bottom wages. Langford I guess is the surprise packet on bottom wages but that cant last for long. Puopolo also worth his weight in gold.

Simpkin can play as a centre square mid and get 25 touches. Has some pace. Has a mature body.

As a sub he comes on and wins the pill straight away.

Played as a defensive fwd this year on Malceksi. Can role play.

Can play forward and kick goals.

After another preseason he may improve again - this does not seem to be a consideration for a lot of people who think he has peaked. There is a knock on his disposal at times and I would like him to work on his tackling which puts him back into competition with the names mentioned above but if he tidies these up then he can certainly be best 22. If we move him on we will be of the belief he has no improvement left and that there will be players in his group which will go past him in 2015.

Fair enough - I liked his game on Malceski too. I just don't think he's worth keeping as "the best sub". If he can become a mid that can replace our older mids long term then he should be kept (I'm not sure he is the guy to do it though).

 

[GOHORCS]

No Hartung is elite in fitness. It's his strongest attribute. Why would you use him for a quarter if his best parameter is his ability to run the entire game. Typically it's the guys with high skills but small tank you want as subs.

I agree with you EXCEPT with Hartung as a sub can run for almost the entire quarter at a pace above the other players that have ran for the entire game. As a sub he can also be a most of game player if we get an early injury. An impact player as you describe is only good if he comes on at end of game.

 

[mess]

I get the angst about Simpkin getting the sub role so often, I firmly believe there is a logjam of more talented players biding their time at BoxHill. We need to review the sub position and get more AFL exposure to the likes of Hartung, Woody, Mitch, Litherland and Sicily. I personally don't think Simpkin influences enough contests when he comes on as sub.

He's definitely the best sub on our list, and he definitely earns that spot on merit. In spite of this, I just don't think it's the ideal situation for either party that that's his spot/lot.

Doubt there would be much better value player on our list than Simpkin. Arguably Spangher but I would argue that Simpkin is better performed. Simpkin would be on close to bottom wages. Langford I guess is the surprise packet on bottom wages but that cant last for long. Puopolo also worth his weight in gold.

Simpkin can play as a centre square mid and get 25 touches. Has some pace. Has a mature body.

As a sub he comes on and wins the pill straight away.

Played as a defensive fwd this year on Malceksi. Can role play.

Can play forward and kick goals.

After another preseason he may improve again - this does not seem to be a consideration for a lot of people who think he has peaked. There is a knock on his disposal at times and I would like him to work on his tackling which puts him back into competition with the names mentioned above but if he tidies these up then he can certainly be best 22. If we move him on we will be of the belief he has no improvement left and that there will be players in his group which will go past him in 2015.

Absolutely, but strategically I think he's just in the wrong age bracket to be taking up the next spot that opens up in our 21. This is of course gambling that when such a spot opens up, a younger player will be ready to occupy it at near enough to the same standard as Simpkin is.

Also, I reckon everything you said in favour of Simpkin is applicable to Whitecross too, and you've gotta think the latter takes precedence in the pecking order when they're both healthy...