News & Events Reports a Malaysian Airlines flight has gone down in the Ukraine

[Smiling Buddha]

Yep, Putin should apologise for a crime that there is not a shred of evidence to suggest he committed.

It is getting embarrassing for the gov/msm apologists.

 

[Gough]

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-theories-zionist-plots-illuminati-russian-tv

There are several versions of the phrase: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” While the sentiment is not entirely applicable to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines’ flight MH17 over Ukraine – it seems impossible that there was no malice involved in bringing down a passenger plane carrying close to 300 people who had nothing to do with anyone’s conflict – it’s still worth holding in our thoughts as we try to get to grips with exactly what happened. Was this a utensil-up or a conspiracy?

First, the utensil-up. Russian-backed Ukrainian separatists gained access to a sophisticated Buk ground-to-air missile system, most likely via Russian channels. They were keen to shoot down Ukrainian planes. Unfortunately, they did not have the equipment or expertise to differentiate between civilian and military aircraft, and the result was the horrific death of MH17’s 298 innocent passengers.

This is still a crime, no doubt. But for some this is not enough. For various reasons, ranging from fear, to vanity, to hatred, people need an overarching theory. There must always be more to matters than meets the eye.

Here are five of the “alternative” explanations for the downing of MH17, in order of diminishing plausibility (not to suggest that any one of them is really plausible – but some are weirder than others).

MSN I know (sorry SB) but worth a look nonetheless. The first sentence is worth thinking about.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Hey Gough what do you make of the US admitting it has ZERO EVIDENCE TO LINK THIS TO RUSSIA/PUTIN?

Just going to sweep that one under the rug, are we?

 

[Catfish Alley]

I just heard on the news (MSM 6 o'clock bulletin) that the US are saying it was shot down accidentally. They aren't really blaming anybody in particular yet. Then they showed Abbott and were saying Australia holds a different view.

 

[Gough]

I said at the start of this thread I thought it was an accident and nothing I have seen since has disuaded me from this view. To me the pressing question really is where did they get the kit to do it from? Circumstantial evidenc suggests Russia, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Hey Gough what do you make of the US admitting it has ZERO EVIDENCE TO LINK THIS TO RUSSIA/PUTIN?

Just going to sweep that one under the rug, are we?

Clearly the rebels built their own SAMs and haven't received any support or assistance from russia this entire time!

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Yawn.

 

[Gough]

Yawn.

Why is it so hard to believe that in an area that is surrounded by chaos, tragic accidents can happen? It wouldn't be the first time and I've no doubt it won't be the last.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Your asymmetrical scepticism is blatant. Apparently the US is responsible for the Ukrainian revolution because members of its intelligence service(s) were in ukraine, but Russia is completely unrelated to the ongoing feud, its annexation of the crimea, its failures to broker some kind of resolution or its role in supplying weaponry to the separatists.
Russia’s just a victim of circumstance!

 

[Catfish Alley]

I know it's not what he meant, but I had a chuckle at the thought of Napthine trying to call Putin to apologize

 

[JD11]

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-theories-zionist-plots-illuminati-russian-tv

MSN I know (sorry SB) but worth a look nonetheless. The first sentence is worth thinking about.

That sentence is a complete cop-out.

 

[kickazz]

Another thread going to s**t. It is always easier to ask questions than provide answers. At some point we need to decide to assess what answers we are given, and draw a conclusion with some percentage of certainty as to what happened. Newsflash: we'll never know 100% about pretty much anything. Just because there'll always be more questions doesn't completely dismiss all of the answers we have been given thus far.

I always welcome skepticism and questions. But unless this questioning and skepticism is supplemented with plausible answers of its own, it really is just noise.

On topic, I'm with Gough in that from the outset I believed this to be an accident, that the crime was not properly identifying the target. Yeah, the Western MSM have gone to town on Vladimir right from the start, perhaps shooting first then asking questions. It is slightly disappointing but hardly surprising. He really isn't liked by the West at the moment and part of international diplomacy unfortunately is playing the PR game.

 

[Catfish Alley]

Agreed (with kickazz). What happened to real journalism though?

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Do you need to be such an a-hole in every bloody post?

Exaggeration much? How is asking questions of Smiling Buddha, in a style reflected by his own posting, being an a-hole? Why haven't you felt it necessary to abuse him in a similar manner?

BTW, I missed the name of that "pro-Russian militiaman" quoted in the article. Did you catch it by any chance?

Would it make a difference if he was named? Do you have a list you could check it against?

 

[Reginald Perrin]

One would hope that, eventually, the mods will do something about the constant personal attacks being directed towards those who question the official narrative.

In the meantime, I am receiving PMs from lurkers who tell me they can see that certain posters in this thread are doing their best to shout me down, and have begun to question why that may be so.

The constant attempts to discredit those who are simply questioning the official narrative might not be working as well as the perpetrators intend.

Hilarious.

We've all really earned our CIA shill money this week.

Party in the oval office Friday. I call shotgun on the chair.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Cool. Now let's see them (or anyone) compile a list of lies by the Western msm over the past few days.

Here you go. See how these articles stand up to the scrutiny of your critical thinking.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/20/372063/will-russia-shoot-down-wests-lies/

http://serge-malov.livejournal.com/100394.html

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Accident or not you don't shoot planes out of skies. Murdering people is not an accident

 

[The Speaker]

Another thread going to s**t. It is always easier to ask questions than provide answers. At some point we need to decide to assess what answers we are given, and draw a conclusion with some percentage of certainty as to what happened. Newsflash: we'll never know 100% about pretty much anything. Just because there'll always be more questions doesn't completely dismiss all of the answers we have been given thus far.

I always welcome skepticism and questions. But unless this questioning and skepticism is supplemented with plausible answers of its own, it really is just noise.

On topic, I'm with Gough in that from the outset I believed this to be an accident, that the crime was not properly identifying the target. Yeah, the Western MSM have gone to town on Vladimir right from the start, perhaps shooting first then asking questions. It is slightly disappointing but hardly surprising. He really isn't liked by the West at the moment and part of international diplomacy unfortunately is playing the PR game.

Certainly what it seems like.

 

[The_Reaper]

Accident or not you don't shoot planes out of skies. Murdering people is not an accident

You do in a war when you think it's an enemy plane.

The seperatists just shot down two jets over Donetsk

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/2-ukraine-fighter-jets-shot-down-by-pro-russian-rebels-1.2715224

 

[Big Sauce 21]

You do in a war when you think it's an enemy plane.

The seperatists just shot down two jets over Donetsk

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/2-ukraine-fighter-jets-shot-down-by-pro-russian-rebels-1.2715224

Bunch of flogs, both countries.

 

[The_Reaper]

Bunch of flogs, both countries.

Or maybe things are more complicated?

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Or maybe things are more complicated?

Nope, Flogs

 

[Baldur]

The Russians have worked with the Malaysians & Dutch from the start.

Malaysia organised a deal with separatists though backdoor diplomacy. The Dutch used their significant contacts with the Russian financial community to get their investigators & forensic scientists in.

Both happened or were in the process of happening before the UN resolution. Both happened without those countries PM calling Putin a murderer.

Worth noting too that the only potential stumbling block in the UN was any attempt to apportion blame (see Chinese & Russian reaction). Wonder where that was coming from?

Abbott is going to come out of this looking like an opportnistic knob. I doubt any world leaders of note would take him seriously.


We have plenty of evidence of past CIA plots - some far more ridiculous in nature than the most ridiculous conspiracy theories being put up about this.

We have no evidence of alien anal probes (although cheerleaders of political parties come close).

So you believe in little grey men in flying saucers, just not the anal probes.

 

[Catfish Alley]

Nope, Flogs

You should talk at the G20 Summit

 

[the_interloper]

Bunch of flogs, both countries.

Awesome stuff, hope you become a diplomat!