VIC - Port Phillip Bay Tunnel

[L_W_P]

Is there any reason why this never gets talked about as an idea at election time? Or any other time for that matter?

There have been proposals in the past (including a possible suspension bridge) but it seems like something obvious to get done as the expansion of Melbourne continues into the future and Geelong/Frankston become a part of the city as a whole. It could be argued that Frankston is already there.

To put it in perspective the Channel Tunnel from Calais, France to Kent, England is just over 50kms long. The Port Phillip Tunnel would only need to be about half of that in order to connect the Mornington Penninsula Freeway with the Bellarine highway.

Obviously it would cost a fortune (and this is probably why it's never brought up) but thinking long term it would allow much easier travel for outer suburban traffic perticularly those looking to catch flights from Avalon (which could see a large spike in business), reduce some congestion in the inner city over weekends as people visiting family, hitting beach spots or camping could avoid city routes and it would also provide a viable east-to-west option for freight movement if the government continues with it's plans for the Port of Hastings construction over the next 10 or so years.

So let's talk about it SRP Board. Would people use it? Does anyone else see a need for it?

Interested to hear people's thoughts on this given all the media discussion about the East-West Tunnel and the forever delayed Melbourne Rail Link.

 

[Gus Poyet]

To put it in perspective the Channel Tunnel from Calais, France to Kent, England is just over 50kms long. The Port Phillip Tunnel would only need to be about half of that in order to connect the Mornington Penninsula Freeway with the Bellarine highway.

Obviously it would cost a fortune (and this is probably why it's never brought up) but thinking long term it would allow much easier travel for outer suburban traffic perticularly those looking to catch flights from Avalon (which could see a large spike in business), reduce some congestion in the inner city over weekends as people visiting family, hitting beach spots or camping could avoid city routes and it would also provide a viable east-to-west option for freight movement if the government continues with it's plans for the Port of Hastings construction over the next 10 or so years.

Are you aware how far away from Avalon the Bellarine Peninsula is?

To make it work better in that respect you'd be better to have it come out around the North Shore area of Geelong imo. Coming out at that point would allow for easier access onto the ringroads surrounding Geelong.

 

[mottrain]

Are you aware how far away from Avalon the Bellarine Peninsula is?

To make it work better in that respect you'd be better to have it come out around the North Shore area of Geelong imo. Coming out at that point would allow for easier access onto the ringroads surrounding Geelong.

Exactly it is only half way at Avalon and both those roads are pretty bad in their current state to be contemplated for a mass road traffic expansion like these.

 

[L_W_P]

Fair enough points.

Just something I haven't seen brought up but when I was looking at the map it just seemed too obvious to have been missed.

 

[telsor]

I might be wrong, but I can't see the cost being worth the benefits.

Many much higher priorities to work on first.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

There have been proposals in the past (including a possible suspension bridge) but it seems like something obvious to get done as the expansion of Melbourne continues into the future and Geelong/Frankston become a part of the city as a whole. It could be argued that Frankston is already there.

The State government would agree with the argument about Frankston, but then again the also consider Portsea as part of Metropolitan Melbourne.

The State would be better served if built better transport links between it's regional cities. rather than continuing to expand the borders of the city.

Increase the densities of the town centres, no reasons town centres can't have 2 floors of apartments on top of the shops.

Personally I'd like to see them recommission the Mornington line and build a rail line out to Portsea before they try and build a bridge/tunnel across the heads.

 

[pazza]

I'd upgrade Williamstown Road in Port Melbourne and have the tunnel going under the unused land at Webb Dock, with the tunnel to come out at about Newport/Spotswood feeding onto Melbourne Road.

 

[Elroo]

I'd upgrade Williamstown Road in Port Melbourne and have the tunnel going under the unused land at Webb Dock, with the tunnel to come out at about Newport/Spotswood feeding onto Melbourne Road.

You do realise their is already a contracted expansion underway of Webb Dock to the south with preliminary works already commenced?

 

[pazza]

You do realise their is already a contracted expansion underway of Webb Dock to the south with preliminary works already commenced?

Yes...but, this to strengthen the road infrastructure supporting the dock and diverting freight traffic directly

 

[Elroo]

Yes...but, this to strengthen the road infrastructure supporting the dock and diverting freight traffic directly

There won't be unused land under the new expanded Webb Dock.

You do also realise the plan is to remove businesses from Williamstown road in Port Melbourne with apartments?

 

[Admiral Byng]

Probably very hard to model such a thing. Sure there's potential users and potential business opportunities, but these things usually get build on need. For many of the world's great bridges or tunnel projects there were ferry services, or the long way around, or something like that, that was already struggling to cope with demand, the lack of a bridge or tunnel becoming a serious transport bottle-neck. For example that huge bridge in France created a shortcut between two plateaus where previously cars had to go all the way down and up the valley which created choke-points and traffic jams that lasted for hours in the holiday season. It was easy to see the demand.

 

[Elroo]

Probably very hard to model such a thing. Sure there's potential users and potential business opportunities, but these things usually get build on need. For many of the world's great bridges or tunnel projects there were ferry services, or the long way around, or something like that, that was already struggling to cope with demand, the lack of a bridge or tunnel becoming a serious transport bottle-neck. For example that huge bridge in France created a shortcut between two plateaus where previously cars had to go all the way down and up the valley which created choke-points and traffic jams that lasted for hours in the holiday season. It was easy to see the demand.

Yep the figures for the Western Ring road to Dynon Rd and Footscray Rd to the Eastern Fwy road/tunnels are as rubbery as hell. I have a chuckle when it is called the East/West Link. There wouldn't be enough demand for a Mornington to Bellarine Peninsula tunnel.

 

[Slax]

Yep the figures for the Western Ring road to Dynon Rd and Footscray Rd to the Eastern Fwy road/tunnels are as rubbery as hell. I have a chuckle when it is called the East/West Link. There wouldn't be enough demand for a Mornington to Bellarine Peninsula tunnel.

What I love watching bounce when people through up the thing about the numbers is trying to get them to explain one little oversight.

The Eastern Fwy feeding onto Alexandra Pde comes into a three lane road. At Nicholson St it become a two lone road, once around the top of Melbourne Uni it becomes a single lane road through Royal Park, but we keep getting quoted the amount of traddic using Alexandra Pde in its peak spots between Smith St & Nicholson St and saying that this traffic will flow through the tunnell. If it really was East-West traffic then Alexandra Pde would be gridlock from 5am to midnight.

over 90% of the traffic coming on and off the Eastern Fwy are from immediately around the inner suburbs, very little is actually cross town traffic heading to the Tulla. The East-West Tunnel will be a disaster a Mornington-Bellarine link would be financial suicide.

The logistics themselves of this just mean that it isn't practical, to justify the cost you would need to be talking the sort of traffic flow numbers people were about the original CityLink project (still never understood why the State Government didn't build it, was always going to be a financial success, always) and that level of traffic wouldn't happen in peak holiday season let alone the middle of winter.

 

[L_W_P]

What about in relation to the Port of Hastings? Do we think it will only be used to supply freight for Eastern Vic while Port Melbourne handles North and West?

Is that cost effective for business shipping?

 

[mottrain]

The State government would agree with the argument about Frankston, but then again the also consider Portsea as part of Metropolitan Melbourne.

The State would be better served if built better transport links between it's regional cities. rather than continuing to expand the borders of the city.

Increase the densities of the town centres, no reasons town centres can't have 2 floors of apartments on top of the shops.

Personally I'd like to see them recommission the Mornington line and build a rail line out to Portsea before they try and build a bridge/tunnel across the heads.

Agree and won't happen due to Portsea being purely protected and all that from this stuff. Mornington majorly needs the train track fixed and put back in service as does B axter. Fully surprised this hasn't been done with that area the way it is politically atm and all the pt spendin.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

Agree and won't happen due to Portsea being purely protected and all that from this stuff. Mornington majorly needs the train track fixed and put back in service as does B axter. Fully surprised this hasn't been done with that area the way it is politically atm and all the pt spendin.

You could get the train to Rye by building along/down the middle of the Mornington Peninsula Freeway.

Should build at least 2 track to Baxter and 3 or 4th platform at Frankston and stable more diesels at Frankston to cover the extra services. Electrification can be worried about at a later date.

The reason it doesn't get looked at is because whilst Frankston may be marginal, the Mornington side of the Peninsula is 2 very safe Liberal seats and the Western Port side which includes Baxter is fairly safe.

If I was my local member (Hastings District) I'd be pushing for upgrades and extension of the Cranbourne line, recommissioning of the South Gippsland Line & grade separations on the Stony Point until High St in Hastings including the Long Island Spur or a bypass from Watts Rd (Frankston-Flinders Rd) to Dandenong Rd.

All 4 Members for the Area (Hastings, Frankston, Mornington & Nepean) as well as the districts immediately North should be pushing for grade separation of the Frankston Line.

I'm actually surprised that Members for regions don't work together in area like public transport. If the Members whose districts ran along the Frankston, Cranbourne and Pakenham lines got together as a block on certain issues they'd make a sizeable voting block. Same with the Members for districts on the Newport Spur.

 

[Pessimistic]

Fixing the city loop and level crossings is just so far ahead as priorities in victoria its not funny

And do them in the next two decades not six

 

[Fire]

This is the ultimate build it and they will come project. It would open up Melbourne but its a need currently invisible to the electorate, so won't be done any time soon.

I hope they do it though.

 

[Pessimistic]

What does it matter which way around the bay you go ?

Anyway even current "essential " tunnels and links get shut down for cycling jollies so how essential are they ?

What gets me is part of the reason they want the east west tunnel is if the citilink tunnel gets shut for any reason

Would have been better to build three tunnels under the yarra., one spare in case of maintenance, and can carry more traffic in peak hour

 

[Zooloft]

It's not just a bridge. An 8 knot rip tide current flows night & day. High tide, low tide & ebb tides. So, hydro power from Alstom / Rolls Royce generators attached to bridge piers can out supply the whole Yallourn Valley. Add concentrated solar parabolic collectors on the north face & peak demand is catered too with free reflection off of the Bay waters.. A project like this in the Nevada desert is commercially profitable. Desert! Solar 1.

 

[Zooloft]

SeaRoad Ferries move vehicles & over 700,000 people ( YTD 2012 ) from Sorrento to Queenscliff. This is more than Yorkshire, UK's Humber river bridge opened in 1981. ( & now profitable ).
Port Phillip Bay bridge could be a 10 minute $10 24 hrs /7 days crossing.
Profitable in its own right as in UK!

 

[Zooloft]

East West Link. A new connection. 300k plus 150k populations join forces from Geelong & environs to Mornington Peninsula. By-pass Melbourne entirely.

 

[Zooloft]

Going to a Geelong home match from anywhere in the Sourh-East of Melbourne?
Take the new tourist route via the free Mornington Peninsula Link Fwy, all the way down to the new Bay Bridge & cross over 24/7 in under 10mins.

 

[swingdog]

High speed ferries, anyone?

 

[Zooloft]

Current ferries charge about $60 for a car & more based on length for vans & trucks. Trailers extra & surcharge per person in the vehicle. A commercial e-tag bridge could be capped at $10 regardless of length or, caravan & disregarding persons on board, the mini bus would still be $10.