3rd Test Squad named - Guess who's still there

[Andronicus]

Is lyon really much better an option than Hussey or Clarke? I'd rather see them share the spinner overs and either make way for a fourth quick, or even another batsman.

A fit watson would have both options covered. How far off returning is he?

 

[Lemma]

@Beads
No need to be condescending...
The injury may have been evident before the test and got aggravated in the next Shield game...as i recall it was a 50-50 shot between Starc and Cutting- so they could have gone with the safer option- maybe they wanted a left-armer I don't know
Is it possible you're more partial to Cutting because you're a QLDer?

 

[Bucking Beads]

I am ore partial towards Cutting because he is a Queenslander and because he was the form bowler in shield cricket. He had 20 odd wickets at 15 while Starc was averaging 30 with the ball.

 

[Lemma]

It also might be that Starc had some experience at international level, having played some ODIs whereas Cutting had not. I'm splitting hairs- I've not seen Cutting bowl much, but he probably would have done a pretty good job.
There's still time for Ben- he's only 24 and he's obviously now in the selectors' consideration

 

[frankrizzo]

If he bowled with the other arm he would not have been picked at the gabba, it's silly but it's also reality.

 

[ROOTA#6]

If he bowled with the other arm he would not have been picked at the gabba, it's silly but it's also reality.

Exactly and would not even be close to consideration at all

 

[aussierulesrules]

This x100

Im still furious they picked starc ahead of Cutting first test. Poor decision, Cutting was clearly in better form, and the better bowler. Made it worse when he got injured.

Incredibly annoying

This x 3.76
Really think they pulled the wrong rein there and it looks to have been costly for Cutting and possibly Australia (with Cutting, we may have won the Tassie test). He was the correct call for so many reasons I reckon and he'd probably go great guns if he was fit and in form and playing in the WACA test.
On the other hand, if Cutting was picked he may still be there and we wouldn't have gotten Hilfy back (except maybe in Perth, where they could have brought him in instead of Starc).

 

[Bucking Beads]

What annoys me the most is they wanted variety in the attack but now we have 3 right arm quicks. Oh well hopefully Cutting comes back from injury well and pushes for selection again.

 

[dan warna]

Cutting was fit when he was flown up for the test. He was I understand directed to fly down for the shield game and it is believed the two flights and insufficient preparation contributed to his injury.

There is nothing to say he would or would not have been injured had he played the test, but we'll never know.

How starc was selected above cutting, cutting who has an outstanding form and Starc who has had well, ordinary form is amazing.

I honestly feel that Cutting was given a massive disservice on the proportions of a being unjust in being flown up and then down again while a player who is rubbish was selected ahead of him.

I have NO idea how starc was selected the first time and I have no idea why starc was selected this time.

smiley faces not here, nor are any other theories espoused on why starc was selected despite having rubbish FC form.

53 wickets at 35...

 

[ROOTA#6]

What annoys me the most is they wanted variety in the attack but now we have 3 right arm quicks. Oh well hopefully Cutting comes back from injury well and pushes for selection again.

What it does is show their stupidity in thinkng that they needed a left armer. Good bowlers are good bowler no matter what arm the use. In the great era of Aussie teams there weren't left armers for the sake of left armers. Pick the 3 best for the job

 

[frankrizzo]

The great windies teams dominated for nearly twenty years with right arm quick after right arm quick.

Not much variety in those teams just huge accurate deadly right arm quicks at you over after over, they had an alright run last time i checked.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Is lyon really much better an option than Hussey or Clarke? I'd rather see them share the spinner overs and either make way for a fourth quick, or even another batsman.

A fit watson would have both options covered. How far off returning is he?

I really think Clarke's bowling is very good, especially for someone who bowls so little (how good could he have been if his back wasn't a problem and he could have bowled 15-20 overs every test? ) and don't consider Lyon much better at this stage, if at all, especially since Clarke spins it away from the "righties" and Lyon doesn't.
Starc, Hussey and Clarke could certainly cover for Lyon if he doesn't play in Perth, I imagine. As for Watto, he won't be bowling for a few weeks, I expect, so we can forget about that.

 

[BarneyBent]

I have to say, even though I'm totally against Starc being played, it also kind of makes me excited. If ever you were going to play a young, tall quick that can seriously swing the ball, against a mentally-shot batting lineup that is traditionally poor against bounce, swing and pace on a bouncy wicket is probably the best time to do it.

Maybe it's worthwhile seeing what he can do now that his first/second Test nerves have passed. Who knows, if he can take a 5fer, get some confidence up, maybe it will be the start of something great. And if not, he can go back to Shield cricket and work hard.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Starc bowling his way into the test team as we speak. Has so far bowled 2 fantastic overs including being on a hat-trick in the 2nd over and getting another caught behind in that over knocked back, despite the replay pretty much confirming it was knicked. Swinging the ball at pace and also beat Khawaja twice in the 1st over and then got a nick that was not held onto at 2nd slip from Ussie.
I'm also started to get a bit excited about the prospect of him playing in Perth.
Edit. Has just gotten another wicket in his 3rd over, from a magnificent yorker. Would have 4 wickets in 15 balls if that caught behind was correctly adjudicated.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Yeah cause white ball T20 crap is a good indicator for how he'll go at Test level..

Lets see how he bowls on a dry pitch, with no moisture in the air.

 

[aussierulesrules]

You know what, I said the same sort of thing after seeing Ben Hilfenuas bowling brilliantly in the Big Bash a month or so ago and look how that's turned out.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Starc bowling his way into the test team as we speak. Has so far bowled 2 fantastic overs including being on a hat-trick in the 2nd over and getting another caught behind in that over knocked back, despite the replay pretty much confirming it was knicked. Swinging the ball at pace and also beat Khawaja twice in the 1st over and then got a nick that was not held onto at 2nd slip from Ussie.
I'm also started to get a bit excited about the prospect of him playing in Perth.
Edit. Has just gotten another wicket in his 3rd over, from a magnificent yorker. Would have 4 wickets in 15 balls if that caught behind was correctly adjudicated.

This, and let's face is, Lyon or Starc it really doesn't matter. If we're going to play Starc again and see if he's improved, Perth is the place to do it.

He was getting serious swing tonight.

 

[Bucking Beads]

They should play Starc, I hope they do.

 

[ManWithNoName]

You know what, I said the same sort of thing after seeing Ben Hilfenuas bowling brilliantly in the Big Bash a month or so ago and look how that's turned out.

Shaun Marsh batted brilliantly in a T20 game before being picked. Your point?

 

[Sman-21]

oh wow he bowled great in a game where all the batsmen are trying to slog.

Test cricket is completely different the batsmen use a technique called blocking in that form of the game.
They can have the patience to just wait for the bad balls an then they will dispatch him to the boundary all day long.

Hope they play him the sooner he gets a game the more likely it is they will see hes not cut out for it an hopefully look elsewhere.

 

[Outshined]

oh wow he bowled great in a game where all the batsmen are trying to slog.

Test cricket is completely different the batsmen use a technique called blocking in that form of the game.
They can have the patience to just wait for the bad balls an then they will dispatch him to the boundary all day long.

Hope they play him the sooner he gets a game the more likely it is they will see hes not cut out for it an hopefully look elsewhere.

You obviously didn't watch the game, since Starc's wickets came from excellent balls irrespective of the T20 format.

It's also ridiculous to completely write off a tall left arm seamer who has shown the ability to swing the ball back into the right hander. I'll admit to having done it in the past (especially in the Brisbane game vs NZ), but it was rightly pointed out that he has all the raw materials to become a wonderful bowler. Patience is a virtue, especially with young bowlers. Not everyone is going to storm into the team and take 20+ wickets at 18 like Patto.

I don't particularly want him to play at the WACA either, since he hasn't yet developed the consistency for test cricket, but given the dire injury situation in our pace stocks, as well as the state of the series, it's hardly a huge gamble.

So yeh, saying "he's not cut out for it" about a 21 year old is absurd.

 

[Slax]

Unfortunately always suspected they would keep Haddin, it fits the old if it ain't broke don't fix it mentality that lead to us dropping to #5 in the world when they realised that none of the next tier of players had experience when the senior blokes lost form.

As for Starc it is a signal to him that he is still in the mix although he won't play in Perth. Only change will be Harris for Patto.

 

[Quadzilla]

Unfortunately always suspected they would keep Haddin, it fits the old if it ain't broke don't fix it mentality that lead to us dropping to #5 in the world when they realised that none of the next tier of players had experience when the senior blokes lost form.

It was pointed out to me on another forum that during the cricket show in the last test, the issue of Haddin came up and Healy was giving us some inside gossip. He said that he'd spoken with the selectors and they made it clear that while Paine was injured, they do not want to put Wade into the team and that means Haddin is safe for now.

What has Wade done to upset the 'new' panel already or is Heals just being controversial for the sake of it?

Wade has the form over Paine, is younger, fit and playing now and a better gloveman ... so what gives Invers, Marsh & co?????

 

[Yabba]

You obviously didn't watch the game, since Starc's wickets came from excellent balls irrespective of the T20 format.

It's also ridiculous to completely write off a tall left arm seamer who has shown the ability to swing the ball back into the right hander. I'll admit to having done it in the past (especially in the Brisbane game vs NZ), but it was rightly pointed out that he has all the raw materials to become a wonderful bowler. Patience is a virtue, especially with young bowlers. Not everyone is going to storm into the team and take 20+ wickets at 18 like Patto.

I don't particularly want him to play at the WACA either, since he hasn't yet developed the consistency for test cricket, but given the dire injury situation in our pace stocks, as well as the state of the series, it's hardly a huge gamble.

So yeh, saying "he's not cut out for it" about a 21 year old is absurd.

Excellent post. With the unavailable players, if you are going to pick a 4th quick it has to be Starc. The wickets he got were genuine wickets, regardless of the format.

I think out of all the young bowlers he is the one that the most patience needs to be shown to. Could be a very dangerous bowler once he starts to get it right consistantly.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Shaun Marsh batted brilliantly in a T20 game before being picked. Your point?

Bradsmeade said: "Yeah cause white ball T20 crap is a good indicator for how he'll go at Test level." to which I replied that I'd said a similar thing (to what I said about Starc last night) about Ben Hilfenhaus, after seeing him bowl in a couple of T20's a month ago (to which I was reliably informed that it meant nothing, as it was "only" T20), which proves that while of course not a guarantee, it can in fact be a good indicator, because Hilfy has since gone on to bowl equally well in the tests. It can be a very good indicator, because a good delivery (and consistent good deliveries) mean you're bowling well, regardless of the format.
As for Marsh v Starc or Hilfy, I think it can be a bit of a different approach to batting, if not a very different approach. They are often going the tonk, including right from the first ball, whereas Starc and Hilfy were generally just bowling very good quick deliveries. The exact sort they would be bowling in a test match. And lets not forget Pat Cummins also got a test berth for Australia largely on the back of his bowling in T20's and ODI's in Sth Africa (where about half of his wickets were from slower balls), not on his first class average of 40 odd and that worked out OK from memory.
If Starc comes in and bowls the exact same sort of balls he was bowling last night to India, in Perth, we'll be laughing, whereas you probably wouldn't want someone to come in and bat the exact same sort of way in a test match that they've just batted in a T20 (as evidenced by Marsh, Haddin and Warner, who all made big scores in the Big Bash leading up to the first test and all got out cheaply in the following tests, looking like they were still largely in T20 mode.)
They weren't always trying to smash Starc around last night, either. Usman (who could easily still be in the test team) played and missed with regulation defensive shots to balls that swung away from him (and then edged one that he had a big go at- which went through the hands at 2nd slip) and Dan Smith was not quick enough to get bat on a ball that swung into his pad, trapping him LB. The exact sort of LB that got MJ so many international RH wickets when he was bowling/swinging it well and that could also get Starc a lot of international wickets, in all forms.