Play Nice Tippett Nominates Sydney - Part II

[The King!]

Hope my club doesn't bend over and take it. Much rather us make a stand and lose him for nothing. It's BS how a player can demand to be traded somewhere, put a price tag on his head, and the clubs get shafted. Happened to us time and time again in the last 4 years. Hopefully some rule changes are put into place to avoid this kind of situation in the future. Seems like we would get more if he was a bloody free agent

Just make uncontracted players free agents and avoid all the crap

 

[Tas]

Just make uncontracted players free agents and avoid all the crap

Not if there is compensation.

 

[BarneyBent]

Let's say you have $1m of spare cap space going into 2013.

That does not mean you necessarily had $1m of spare cap space over the course of 2012.

Do you see the distinction?

Yes, but I'm not sure you do.

If the Swans are paying their full COL, that's not going to change between 2012 and 2013. So our cap space can be thought of as Z+Y1-(X+Y2), where Z is the base cap, Y1 is the total COL, X is our base payments, and Y2 is the 10% extra we pay our players from the COL (which will be very close to equal Y1, and when the cap is maxed, will equal Y1). Now, we can't, at the end of this year, just choose to stop paying Y2 to the other players and direct it to a player like Tippett, as it's built into the players' contracts. Our cap space can increase, but only by reducing X+Y2 together. Furthermore, because Y1 and Y2 are basically equal, we can remove them from the equation, leaving our cap space as Z-X, which is the exact same as every other team in the competition.

Now, if we were somehow saving our COL allowance (not possible, given manager expectations and the minimum salary limit, but hypothetically), that would allow us to spend that money on a guy like Tippett, but it would necessitate that the COL is not part of the player contracts, or can be switched on and off at will (it most certainly can't). The only way to free up some on the spot would be to negotiate the contracts for players out of contract this year without the COL, which players and managers obviously wouldn't accept, and would only free up a small fraction of it. Therefore, under the assumption that either all players get it or none do, we would have had to be not using it at all to have that money lying around for Tippett. Therefore, we won the Premiership without it.

Now, the reality is the first example. We use the COL, 10% is added to every player's market value as a matter of course, to account for the expense of living in Sydney. In other words, if players don't get their slice of the COL, they look elsewhere. So there's no way to manipulate it to free up some cash for a big name. It's just not possible. But if it were, people would still have to choose between the Premiership having an asterisk, or Tippett's trade being unfair.

 

[The King!]

Not if there is compensation.

Yeah stuff the compensation, it was off the cuff havent thought much, but players just moving around wouldnt bother me on the surface, basically happens anyway

 

[Tas]

Yeah stuff the compensation, it was off the cuff havent thought much, but players just moving around wouldnt bother me on the surface, basically happens anyway

I think my club generally lets players go where they want to go, as long as we don't get our pants pulled down completely. I think the problem stems when clubs are unreasonable.

I just think mediation should play a bigger role when clubs are a long way off in finding common ground but I think the mediator results should be final as opposed to optional. If one club says they want X and the other club says they will offer Y then the mediator should review both proposals and say the deal is Z or draft for nothing. It would encourage groups to get deals done before it gets to mediation.

 

[The King!]

I think my club generally lets players go where they want to go, as long as we don't get our pants pulled down completely. I think the problem stems when clubs are unreasonable.

I just think mediation should play a bigger role when clubs are a long way off in finding common ground but I think the mediator results should be final as opposed to optional. If one club says they want X and the other club says they will offer Y then the mediator should review both proposals and say the deal is Z. It would encourage groups to get deals done before it gets to mediation.

Not against the idea, though in some cases value is subjective. Who are the current mediators, anyone in particular?

 

[Vikingblood]

Not against the idea, though in some cases value is subjective. Who are the current mediators, anyone in particular?

Don't think mediators will be required. I think you'll find the deal will be White and pick 22. We are getting bent over, but at some stage we will return the favour. Sydney have played their hand well, but there's always another time when our cards will be much stronger. Good luck $$$$$$$Kurt.

I believe this will be finalised tomorrow.

 

[Tas]

Not against the idea, though in some cases value is subjective. Who are the current mediators, anyone in particular?

Not sure, AFL has some independent negotiators I believe. It has been a while since we have had to go to the well I think. Most clubs that look to trade are pretty reasonable, in the end.

I just feel there needs to be more system in terms of trading, this current system seems obstructive in terms of being able to get deals done, they get bogged down far too easily.

 

[Donners]

Geez, if White and 22 were enough to do the deal, I'd have thought it would have been done a week ago.

 

[The King!]

Don't think mediators will be required. I think you'll find the deal will be White and pick 22. We are getting bent over, but at some stage we will return the favour. Sydney have played their hand well, but there's always another time when our cards will be much stronger. Good luck $$$$$$$Kurt.

I believe this will be finalised tomorrow.

Was just talking about the process in general.

But if it were white and 22 why so long to announce

 

[Vikingblood]

Was just talking about the process in general.

But if it were white and 22 why so long to announce

Because Adelaide think that 22 and a bloke drafted at 79 is not fair compensation, but they have realised that their position is weak. Atleast with 22 there is hope and we do now need another back up ruckman

 

[Vikingblood]

Was just talking about the process in general.

But if it were white and 22 why so long to announce

By the way, Sydney were adamant that they wouldn't give up their first round pick. White was offered initially, but Adelaide declined as he was not offered with pick 22 as a package.

 

[The King!]

Because Adelaide think that 22 and a bloke drafted at 79 is not fair compensation, but they have realised that their position is weak. Atleast with 22 there is hope and we do now need another back up ruckman

Maybe still until its announced who knows

 

[The King!]

By the way, Sydney were adamant that they wouldn't give up their first round pick. White was offered initially, but Adelaide declined as he was not offered with pick 22 as a package.

Where did you hear that

 

[Donners]

Because Adelaide think that 22 and a bloke drafted at 79 is not fair compensation, but they have realised that their position is weak. Atleast with 22 there is hope and we do now need another back up ruckman

I doubt the position a player was drafted matters in the slightest after they've been in the system for a few years.

 

[Vikingblood]

Where did you hear that

A source that has only let me down once in many times.

 

[Vikingblood]

I doubt the position a player was drafted matters in the slightest after they've been in the system for a few years.

It does when that player still has failed to deliver. I think White still has upside, but not enough to compensate fairly for the loss. It is what it is, but this will leave a very sour taste that will linger to future trades.

 

[MickyG]

No interest in Tippett: Suns

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/no-interest-in-tippett-suns-20121015-27mck.html

"The door has been slammed shut on Kurt Tippett at the Gold Coast Suns after they dismissed the notion of snapping up the defecting Adelaide forward if talks with Sydney broke down...... Asked if they were monitoring Tippett's stalled talks with the Swans, Ashcroft said: "No, we have moved on". ... "His decision has been made. We respect that and we move on with what we need to do."
"We have some priorities of our own that we need to achieve."


I thought they had already said this. Slow news day?

 

[The King!]

A source that has only let me down once in many times.

Fair enough.

 

[.Shotties.]

but this will leave a very sour taste that will linger to future trades.

No it won't.

 

[Vikingblood]

No it won't.

I think you underestimate the I'll feeling toward the position that Tippett put the Crows in. Sydney have been given a massive upper hand and are prepared to use it. Good luck, but I can assure you this will live on.

 

[The King!]

I think you underestimate the I'll feeling toward the position that Tippett put the Crows in. Sydney have been given a massive upper hand and are prepared to use it. Good luck, but I can assure you this will live on.

It wont make much difference if any, more with the fans than anything

 

[.Shotties.]

I think you underestimate the I'll feeling toward the position that Tippett put the Crows in. Sydney have been given a massive upper hand and are prepared to use it. Good luck, but I can assure you this will live on.

For the fans, maybe. The Crows would know if they got the upper hand they'd do the same thing.

 

[Vikingblood]

It wont make much difference if any, more with the fans than anything

We are already anticipating that Kurt will have a calf strain if you draw the Crows at AAMI. I don't wish the guy any ill will, just wish he hadn't placed the club in the current position by not being truthful or at least straight up about his situation.

Everyone will move on, but I am surprised at Sydneys recruitment of a mercenary, given their famous culture.

 

[Vikingblood]

For the fans, maybe. The Crows would know if they got the upper hand they'd do the same thing.

Have a history of being very fair, in fact too fair. I wish they were far more ruthless. You'll find most Crow trades have been win/wins.