A serious question about MFC

[ritz]

What is everyone's opinion on Melbourne and there player development/ recruiting over the last five years.
Are they recruiting guys without much talent/ upside? Are they reaching for needs? Or are they deadset just picking average players?

Or is the problem they have had is they are 'around the mark' with their recruiting but failing to develop them.?

I am not having a crack at Melbourne for a laugh, this question could apply to numerous clubs. It's just Melbourne have had more top draft picks then most in the last 5 yrs.

Apologies if this topic has been done to death

 

[The Prosecutor]

Culture...seriously.

If you condition players to lose, they will.

 

[Mogwai]

Expectations are zero at MFC and they are meeting their expectations by just existing.

 

[blaze036]

Bad culture creates bad players

 

[Taleoftwotitans]

I think they really stuffed up getting rid of their mature players. The youngens need the blokes have been their and done that to show em what is required. Let alone all the youngens were gifted games when really they should have earnt them and pushed out the mature players when they were ready. Instead teu play kids. Kids get belted week in week out. Moral drops. Culture turns to s**t. Players don't develop into what they could/should have been.

 

[laminex]

They will be fine, they just need time to develop the young list.

 

[Northworth]

It is hard to divorce what is going on at an organisation level from what is happening with player development. The players can't be loving the culture/integrity of the club being attacked

It could actually instil an us against them attitude and bind them to each other - and be the best thing for them.. it could also tear them a part if everyone just plays for themselves. It will be interesting to see.

I think their recruiting five years ago was bad but is more recently very good. How long it takes to overcome the initial poor recruiting remains to be seen.

 

[syl]

Where's that downvote function I am supposed to have? ******* drivel.

 

[ziad]

Its simple. Decide what behavious you want as a club and reward it. Melbourne chose losing and rewarded it.

The ship will take a long time to change course.

Acceptance is the first step and it is yet to be seen.

 

[whatwhatsaywhat]

disappointing recruiting compounding by disastrous development coupled with devilish decisions.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The thread is about their drafting in the past five years.

So lets have a look...
2007
Morton fail
Grimes pass
Maric fail
Cheney fail
2008
Watts pass (yeah yeah Natanuit couldashoulda, but Watts can play)
Blease pass
Strauss pass
Bennell fail
2009
Scully pass/neutral (yeah yeah he walked but they got compo for him, and he can play)
Trengove pass
Gysberts fail (bought with pick 9 sold for pick 63)
Tapscott pass
Gawn pass
2010
Cook fail
Howe pass
McDonald pass
2011
Taggert too early
Tynan too early

So theres some hits there and some misses which all teams have. The worst mistakes were Morton and Gysberts imo, as well as Cook. Their drafting in recent years is the least of their issues.

 

[Hawthorn23]

The thread is about their drafting in the past five years.

So lets have a look...
2007
Morton fail
Grimes pass
Maric fail
Cheney fail
2008
Watts pass (yeah yeah Natanuit couldashoulda, but Watts can play)
Blease pass
Strauss pass
Bennell fail
2009
Scully pass/neutral (yeah yeah he walked but they got compo for him, and he can play)
Trengove pass
Gysberts fail (bought with pick 9 sold for pick 63)
Tapscott pass
Gawn pass
2010
Cook fail
Howe pass
McDonald pass
2011
Taggert too early
Tynan too early

So theres some hits there and some misses which all teams have. The worst mistakes were Morton and Gysberts imo, as well as Cook. Their drafting in recent years is the least of their issues.

I remember seeing Gysberts play, and he was alright. I think injuries did him and if u look at the Dees list, they have a lot of young kids. There was no use of keeping him.

Agreed that Morton was a fail though.

 

[Zuma]

Doesn't bother me to have another club to beat up on for percentage booster, no sympathy for them, have had picks and opportunity and have epically failed despite the propping up

 

[DangerSloane]

I honestly think its the development. Most of the picks seemed ok or right at the time.
None of those drafted have turned into guns...not one. Some teams have had 2-3 players in that time at lower picks turn out to be out and out superstars.

 

[Demonheart]

The thread is about their drafting in the past five years.

So lets have a look...
2007
Morton fail
Grimes pass
Maric fail
Cheney fail
2008
Watts pass (yeah yeah Natanuit couldashoulda, but Watts can play)
Blease pass
Strauss pass
Bennell fail
2009
Scully pass/neutral (yeah yeah he walked but they got compo for him, and he can play)
Trengove pass
Gysberts fail (bought with pick 9 sold for pick 63)
Tapscott pass
Gawn pass
2010
Cook fail
Howe pass
McDonald pass
2011
Taggert too early
Tynan too early

So theres some hits there and some misses which all teams have. The worst mistakes were Morton and Gysberts imo, as well as Cook. Their drafting in recent years is the least of their issues.

I think that's a pretty good assessment.

Over the last 5 years we've had 3 different recruiting managers.

Craig Cameron was responsible for 2007 and is now at Richmond. Terrible year really, only saved by the Grimes selection. Cameron ****ed us over prior to 2007.
Pendergast who is now at Carlton did 2008 to 2011 I think did reasonable well however a couple of first round disasters stand out. Had some good later picks though

We're in the shiite now because of the list management and recruiting mistakes made prior to 5 years ago and also because Bailey believed that the competition was heading towards a free flowing non contact style of play, hence the bruise free comments from a couple of seasons ago.

 

[basashi]

The sad thing is that if Stynes knew about it and tolerated it then his legacy is destroyed and the AFL should not have an award named after him.

 

[Demonheart]

I remember seeing Gysberts play, and he was alright. I think injuries did him and if u look at the Dees list, they have a lot of young kids. There was no use of keeping him.

Agreed that Morton was a fail though.

His biggest problem was lack of fitness, at the start of every pre-season he would turn up in the worse shape. He knows how to get the ball in close and feed it with a hand ball but his kicking is pretty poor and lacks pace. I still think he can make it though, hopefully the change of clubs will give him the kick up the ass he needs.

 

[loki04]

The thread is about their drafting in the past five years.

So lets have a look...
2007
Morton fail
Grimes pass
Maric fail
Cheney fail
2008
Watts pass (yeah yeah Natanuit couldashoulda, but Watts can play)
Blease pass
Strauss pass
Bennell fail
2009
Scully pass/neutral (yeah yeah he walked but they got compo for him, and he can play)
Trengove pass
Gysberts fail (bought with pick 9 sold for pick 63)
Tapscott pass
Gawn pass
2010
Cook fail
Howe pass
McDonald pass
2011
Taggert too early
Tynan too early

So theres some hits there and some misses which all teams have. The worst mistakes were Morton and Gysberts imo, as well as Cook. Their drafting in recent years is the least of their issues.

For a #1 pick Watts is not a pass, if the draft was re done today he wouldn't go top 20.
Melbournes problems are both to do with development and recruiting, dumping all the senior players was a bad move.

1 - 28* Jack Watts Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Melbourne
2 - 1* Nic Naitanui Swan Districts WAFL West Coast
3 - 3* Stephen Hill West Perth WAFL Fremantle
4 - 10* Hamish Hartlett West Adelaide SANFL Port Adelaide
5 - 4* Michael Hurley Northern Knights TAC Cup Essendon
6 - 7* Chris YarranSwan DistrictsWAFLCarlton
7 - 16* Daniel RichSubiacoWAFLBrisbane Lions
8 - 29* Tyrone Vickery Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Richmond
9 -11* Jack Ziebell Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup North Melbourne
10 - 6* Phil DavisNorth AdelaideSANFLAdelaide
11 - 5* Steele SidebottomMurray BushrangersTAC CupCollingwood
12 - 12* Lewis Johnston North Adelaide SANFL Sydney
13 - 25* Tom Lynch Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup St Kilda
14 (F/S) 14 F/S Ayce Cordy Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Western Bulldogs
16 - 13* Ryan Schoenmakers Norwood SANFL Hawthorn
PP 17 - 20* Sam Blease Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Melbourne
PP 18 - 8* Luke Shuey Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup West Coast
19 - 21* James Strauss Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Melbourne
21 - 22* Hayden Ballantyne Peel Thunder WAFL Fremantle
22 - 15* Jackson TrengoveCalder CannonsTAC CupPort Adelaide
23 - 17* David Zaharakis Northern Knights TAC Cup Essendon
24 - 23* Nic SubanNorth Ballarat RebelsTAC CupFremantle
25 - 18* Jack Redden Glenelg SANFL Brisbane Lions
26 - 37* Jayden Post Western Jets TAC Cup Richmond
27 - 30* Sam Wright Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup North Melbourne
28 - 19* Shaun McKernan Calder Cannons TAC Cup Adelaide
29 - 2* Dayne Beams Southport QAFL Collingwood
30 - 9* Daniel Hannebery Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Sydney
31 - 38* Jordan Roughead North Ballarat Rebels TAC Cup Western Bulldogs
34 - 26* Liam Shiels Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Hawthorn
36 - 38* Ashley Smith Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup West Coast
37 - 39* Zac Clarke Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Fremantle
39 - 35* Steven Motlop Wanderers NTFL Geelong
40 - 32* Mitch RobinsonTasmanian DevilsVFLCarlton
41 - 36* Todd BanfieldSwan DistrictsWAFLBrisbane Lions
42 - 34* Mitchell Banner Western Jets TAC Cup Port Adelaide
43 - 33* Liam AnthonyEast FremantleWAFLNorth Melbourne
44 - 24* Rory Sloane Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Adelaide
45 - 27* Jarrad BlightSwan DistrictsWAFLCollingwood

 

[DangerSloane]

For a #1 pick Watts is not a pass, if the draft was re done today he wouldn't go top 20.

1 28 Jack Watts Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Melbourne
2 1 Nic Naitanui Swan Districts WAFL West Coast
3 3 Stephen Hill West Perth WAFL Fremantle
4 10 Hamish Hartlett West Adelaide SANFL Port Adelaide
5 4 Michael Hurley Northern Knights TAC Cup Essendon
6 7 Chris Yarran Swan Districts WAFL Carlton
7 15 Daniel Rich Subiaco WAFL Brisbane Lions
8 29 Tyrone Vickery Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup Richmond
9 11 Jack Ziebell Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup North Melbourne
10 5 Phil Davis North Adelaide SANFL Adelaide
11 6 Steele Sidebottom Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup Collingwood
12 12 Lewis Johnston North Adelaide SANFL Sydney
13 25 Tom Lynch Sandringham Dragons TAC Cup St Kilda
14 (F/S) 14 F/S Ayce Cordy Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Western Bulldogs

16 13 Ryan Schoenmakers Norwood SANFL Hawthorn
PP 17 20 Sam Blease Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Melbourne
PP 18 8 Luke Shuey Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup West Coast
19 21 James Strauss Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Melbourne

21 22 Hayden Ballantyne Peel Thunder WAFL Fremantle
22 16 Jackson Trengove Calder Cannons TAC Cup Port Adelaide
23 17 David Zaharakis Northern Knights TAC Cup Essendon
24 36 Nic Suban North Ballarat Rebels TAC Cup Fremantle
25 18 Jack Redden Glenelg SANFL Brisbane Lions
26 37 Jayden Post Western Jets TAC Cup Richmond
27 30 Sam Wright Murray Bushrangers TAC Cup North Melbourne
28 19 Shaun McKernan Calder Cannons TAC Cup Adelaide
29 2 Dayne Beams Southport QAFL Collingwood
30 9 Daniel Hannebery Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Sydney
31 Jordan Roughead North Ballarat Rebels TAC Cup Western Bulldogs

34 26 Liam Shiels Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Hawthorn

36 38 Ashley Smith Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup West Coast
37 39 Zac Clarke Oakleigh Chargers TAC Cup Fremantle

39 35 Steven Motlop Wanderers NTFL Geelong
40 27 Mitch Robinson Tasmanian Devils VFL Carlton
41 33 Todd Banfield Swan Districts WAFL Brisbane Lions
42 34 Mitchell Banner Western Jets TAC Cup Port Adelaide
43 32 Liam Anthony East Fremantle WAFL North Melbourne
44 24 Rory Sloane Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Adelaide
45 23 Jarrad Blight Swan Districts WAFL Collingwood








Now some may improve a lot in 2013 and Watts may be one of those players but as of now he only scrapes into the top 30 from that draft he is still way too timid for KPP.

IMO Hannebury and Hartlett would both be ahead of Hurley, Yarran and Hill. Also you've got McKernan going at 19? If anything his draft position would''ve dropped. Hes proved absolutely nothing with many opportinuities. If he doesnt do anything this year I'd say hes gone.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Watts will be a 200 gamer. Its irrelevant whether he went 1 or 20. He is not a bust hence he was a good pickup.

 

[DangerSloane]

Watts will be a 200 gamer. Its irrelevant whether he went 1 or 20. He is not a bust hence he was a good pickup.

Yes but when you get first choice you want a 200 game superstar not a 200 game contributor. He could still be that superstar, but if not you'd have a right to be slightly disappointed.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yes but when you get first choice you want a 200 game superstar not a 200 game contributor. He could still be that superstar, but if not you'd have a right to be slightly disappointed.

Doenst happen that easily. Just look at the number one picks over the years. Theres a cross section of success stories and very few genuine superstars.

 

[Falchoon]

As a reaction to the Moloney/Sylvia/McLean/Johnstone/Jones/Davies years

have they made a conscious decision to go for high IQ clean cut types?

 

[CowboyFromHell]

First use of the down vote. Felt good to be honest.

This has been done so many times, and in so many other threads, it's ridiculous. Nothing to see here.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

As a reaction to the Moloney/Sylvia/McLean/Johnstone/Jones/Davies years

have they made a conscious decision to go for high IQ clean cut types?

Like Scully and Jurrah?

Two players from Brighton Grammar is not a quorum.