Exodus watch! (Opposition supporters post trade rumours here)

[Morgs_]

I don't disagree with that strategy but only if we have something similar to what we were discussing, which is on the other end of the spectrum, to compliment it.

EDIT: IMO the problem with Manny's approach is that being 'independent' or learning to be independent is something which can actively be pursued by those that wish to. Those who prefer a more intimate or homelike atmosphere under such a 'regime' have no real avenues to engage with that.

I just think if that's all we've got its very lopsided.

Oh I agree, I do think it should be far more balanced for players. However, it should be balanced based on players needs and wants. If Player A wants to be taught all the stuff to be independent then that is fine. If Player B needs some home cooked meals or living with a family every now and again then that should be accommodated.

I'm not saying that this hasn't happened and Manny has denied them access to meals cooked by old ladies (I just don't know) or whether they can live with a family. I would certainly hope that wasn't the case.

For what it's worth, all last years draft picks and Bourke are living together in Drummos old house. I'm not sure on who Polec, Yeo, Karny and Doc were living with. I know Longer was/is living with Staker and Green.

Maybe better personality match ups with housing arrangements need to be looked at.

 

[Balony_pony16]

I think Mannys style is to teach the kids how to do it for themselves, get them lessons in cooking, cleaning, changing the tires on a car, paying bills to do all the stuff their own parents would be teaching them. Different ideas for player development, but I think for the long run, the way our club does it for the players would be more beneficial for the players themselves instead of being coddled like they seem to enjoy.

maybe the draft combine can start having some of these tested... so we can pick players who have at least an ounce of life skills... for I would hate our inability to teach kids how to wash dishes to impact on retaining their services!

 

[Hollow Knight]

EDIT: IMO the problem with Manny's approach is that being 'independent' or learning to be independent is something which can actively be pursued by those that wish to. Those who prefer a more intimate or homelike atmosphere under such a 'regime' have no real avenues to engage with that.

Yeah, Mel Lambert was basically the stand-in mum for all our new boys for nearly a decade. Even Browny was still going round there for a feed after he got married.

 

[matwt73]

Doch was over rated, Polec injured, Karnezis soft, and Yeo couldn't kick his way out of a paper bag. Won't lose much with this lot.

I disagree.

Me too but if this is what we tell ourselves to handle this sort of thing...

Yeah, I heard they all strangled kittens too, and couldn't remember the words to the club song.

 

[Balony_pony16]

I really think we nee to better Psych screen draftees to get tougher more independent personalities... Need more players like Clarke (who is very happy with many btw) who have a professional bone in their body. Maybe getting Mark Williams on board just for player interviews would have been worth it

 

[John_Proctor]

So I guess as per cam Biggs post a couple of days ago the main 'positive' for us at the moment is that with mummy looking more and more likely to head to hawthorn its unlikely longer would go there (only leaves 9 other Victorian clubs to find ruckmen for!)

The worst bit is that with Yeo leaving you'd expect docherty to be the one to step up. Now it'd ave to be a first year player or the likes of crisp/o'brien who haven,t impressed to any great level.

Maybe leppa will come up with some smart positional moves to cover holes like his, chris Johnsons and merritts switch to defence back in the days. Maybe Sam Mayes could do that role for us as it seems to me that outside of harwood and goodby there aren,t any prospective small defenders on the list. I also don,t think Hanley plays his best footy in defence where he can be exposed physically in the contest, better as a wingman running free.

 

[matwt73]

Oh thats good, I'm pleased about that, thanks........but perhaps we need to just put them in these placements to start with, say the first year or two, while they settle in, then if they want to move on to live with other players, they'll be ready to handle it.....hopefully.

I agree don't even think it needs to be as much as a year but it should be compulsory. Three to six months would do. Bring their family up have their 'melbourne family' meet their 'brisbane family' take mum and dad out to dinner let em know little patrick can get home made spanekopita somewhere.

After they move out they can still go round once a week for dinner and to get the laundry done, and then move em in with a solid senior player, or assistant coach.

 

[Balony_pony16]

I think the worse thing is players taking a Afl club for granted... Afl clubs put a lot on the line to draft them and you think some loyality wouldn't go astray? The current draft combine you see young players throwing out the same old lines "I will be happy to go anywhere" bla bla bla. A bit of honesty would be great and stop taking clubs for a ride.

Bring in Psych testing in interviews and let them crumble while they try and lie through their teeth

 

[whatboutbob]

I'd be rather surprised if our list manager, a psychologist, didn't run psych tests on potential draftees.

But maybe Kerr's qualifications aren't really appropriate:

Master of Arts Preliminary, Psychology

Empirical Thesis Title: Motivation and Attribution Differences in Senior and Reserve Grade Australian Football League Players.

Theoretical Thesis Title: The Adequacy of Theories of Leadership.

PhD Thesis Title: The Role of Achievement Motivation in Career Choice and Career Attainment.

 

[Balony_pony16]

I'd be rather surprised if our list manager, a psychologist, didn't run psych tests on potential draftees.

But maybe Kerr's qualifications aren't really appropriate:

Master of Arts Preliminary, Psychology

Empirical Thesis Title: Motivation and Attribution Differences in Senior and Reserve Grade Australian Football League Players.

Theoretical Thesis Title: The Adequacy of Theories of Leadership.

PhD Thesis Title: The Role of Achievement Motivation in Career Choice and Career Attainment.

Maybe a new one then...stellar job he has done

 

[whatboutbob]

Maybe a new one then...stellar job he has done

Or maybe, just maybe something else has gone awry.

 

[John_Proctor]

Loyalties a two way street. As fans we always talk about it when the players are shafting the club but not when Rischi and Bradshaw were offered up for fev (we all know how that turned out) and same again when power was moved on against his wishes despite earning the right to play on (and I don,t believe in earning the right to go out when you,re ready tbh I just think the club moved him on in response to the list position they created for themselves out of the fev situation)

Past players leaving (clarke, brennan, shermin, rischi, braddy) might have been about club 'disloyalty' too eg. maybe Clarke left because he wasn,t be paid like a borderline all Australian while fevola was still being paid out by the club at outrageous money for his circus act in brisbane.

Just to be clear, I'm offering hypotheticals above, it's easy for us to take pot shots at players from the outside but their could be 100 footballing, welfare, money, or other issues that relate to the clubs management of that player and its list overall that have led to this situation and to blame disloyal, soft, homesick players is an easy option.

 

[Scubaveg]

Yeah, Mel Lambert was basically the stand-in mum for all our new boys for nearly a decade. Even Browny was still going round there for a feed after he got married.

I tried that with my mum after I got married, didn't go down so well. Something about growing up and apron strings.


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[Scubaveg]

Just hope we aren't having this conversation about Mayes next year.


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[dlanod]

Me too but if this is what we tell ourselves to handle this sort of thing...

Yeah, I heard they all strangled kittens too, and couldn't remember the words to the club song.

Angus got such a bad wrap, but he was just in there to remind a few of the boys what the words were.

 

[Voss the boss]

I'd be rather surprised if our list manager, a psychologist, didn't run psych tests on potential draftees.

But maybe Kerr's qualifications aren't really appropriate:

Master of Arts Preliminary, Psychology

Empirical Thesis Title: Motivation and Attribution Differences in Senior and Reserve Grade Australian Football League Players.

Theoretical Thesis Title: The Adequacy of Theories of Leadership.

PhD Thesis Title: The Role of Achievement Motivation in Career Choice and Career Attainment.

Just another academic who has studied too much. /-) Can have all the knowledge in the world but let's see it in practice. Pretty sure lambert didn't have this quals and look what he did. IMO there must be some serious problems between Kerr drafting and lynch's role. Maybe there needs to be a tailored strategy implemented based on each players profile.

 

[Haso]

Just another academic who has studied too much. /-) Can have all the knowledge in the world but let's see it in practice. Pretty sure lambert didn't have this quals and look what he did. IMO there must be some serious problems between Kerr drafting and lynch's role. Maybe there needs to be a tailored strategy implemented based on each players profile.

Nah, there's a great deal of practicum experience in attaining that title. Source: Me, 4 weeks from attaining that title.

He also has many years of experience prior to arriving at the Lions.

 

[Haso]

I'd be rather surprised if our list manager, a psychologist, didn't run psych tests on potential draftees.

But maybe Kerr's qualifications aren't really appropriate:

Master of Arts Preliminary, Psychology

Empirical Thesis Title: Motivation and Attribution Differences in Senior and Reserve Grade Australian Football League Players.

Theoretical Thesis Title: The Adequacy of Theories of Leadership.

PhD Thesis Title: The Role of Achievement Motivation in Career Choice and Career Attainment.

Yup, he's always been perfect for the role. All he needed to add to it was some football experience, which he did gain prior to getting to the Lions.

It would be a matter of course for all football list and talent managers to have psychometric tests run on all prospective players (and also on current players for development purposes) even if they get a consultant in to do it, but Kerr is in the unique position of being able to interpret the tests himself and integrate all of their interview and test results himself, rather than relying on another psych, or even worse, an automated report, which tend to be a little dodgy.

 

[Morgs_]

Yup, he's always been perfect for the role. All he needed to add to it was some football experience, which he did gain prior to getting to the Lions.

It would be a matter of course for all football list and talent managers to have psychometric tests run on all prospective players (and also on current players for development purposes) even if they get a consultant in to do it, but Kerr is in the unique position of being able to interpret the tests himself and integrate all of their interview and test results himself, rather than relying on another psych, or even worse, an automated report, which tend to be a little dodgy.

How long would the tests take to complete roughly? And how long does the club have to interview the players? It's easy for us to say "oh we should test them" but we may not have the time or capacity to do it. I'm happy for Kerr to conduct the interview and interpret the answers himself.

 

[Haso]

How long would the tests take to complete roughly? And how long does the club have to interview the players? It's easy for us to say "oh we should test them" but we may not have the time or capacity to do it. I'm happy for Kerr to conduct the interview and interpret the answers himself.

Personality inventories for selection purposes vary, but on average you're looking at 30 to 40 minutes to complete one. If they're looking at abilities tests as well (can't imagine why, maybe abstract reasoning if anything at all) another 40 minutes. Being the level that he is at, I can't imagine that he would have to do them himself. This is a service that you can get a junior consultant psychologist to do - Kerr's pay grade would be a bit above actually administrating the psych tests. But he would definitely be interpreting them.

 

[Paulborracho]

It's funny how quickly people change their tune on Kerr. Wasn't long ago everyone stating "in Kerr we trust"

 

[WhiteLionFeva]

In Kerr I still trust.

 

[matwt73]

It's funny how quickly people change their tune on Kerr. Wasn't long ago everyone stating "in Kerr we trust"

I still trust Kerr, the recruiting decisions have been solid. Something needs to change within the club environment though.

I don't think any of these kids came to Brisbane not wanting to make a go of it. But once here, lack of opportunity, lack of wins, lack of mum and dad and friends added up, and whatever we had in place to ease that didn't work.

Manny needs to take some responsibility, Vossy probably does, Dean Warren too, Browny, Blacky, Jed and Rocky as senior players and leaders all need to consider where we can improve. It really is about what we do when they are here.

I remember Des Headland actually turned up to his draft interview with Brisbane in a freo jumper. All the signs said w@#%Ker and 'homesick' but we took him and got a few decent years out of him before sending him back to embark on his Palmer United career.

 

[Quigley]

Okay breaking my silence on this point because I think something needs to be said.

On the job Kerr has done I think it is important to remember when he demoted Hadley and took over making the drafting decisions himself. From memory it was the same year as Polec was picked and so he has been responsible for final say on us selecting all of the kids wanting to leave. Hadley and the other recruiters would have had their say but would they have made the same picks? Has Kerr stepped outside his area of expertise by taking on the talent evaluation role? Evidence seems to be suggesting that he has.

Also Haso seems to be implying that psych tests are infallible and that is laughable. Kerr would be prioritising certain personality types in his recruitment and given the guys wanting out you would have to suggest that he has prioritised wrongly. If he has tried to put into practice his thesis findings you would have to question the practical application.

Kerr has done a good job on contract negotiation and at the trade table. I would be putting him back there and giving the talent evaluation back to the guys who look at these kids day in day out. Have the pysch profiles as one component but give the decision making back to the guys who have the best eye for whether the guy can actually play.

Also would he have been more on top of the list retention issues if he were based in Brisbane rather than in Melbourne? Has this debacle demonstrated that we need our list manager to be able to monitor his staff in situ and not remotely?

At the very least the new board will need to have a serious look at Kerr’s role.

 

[Ironmonger]

Also Haso seems to be implying that psych tests are infallible and that is laughable.

I'm pretty sure he didn't...