List Mgmt. 2015 general list discussion and speculation - PLEASE START NEW THREAD ON BREAKING NEWS

[vinum coupe]

Yeah I agree.

 

[Partridge]

Yeah no chance. My attempt at sarcasm . But agree with you, a fairish deal would be our pick 15 and Guthrie (although who's to say Guthrie won't end up the better player) But I doubt there are many Geelong supporters out there willing to give up Guthrie as good as Menzel COULD be. If this rumour were to be true I could only see it as Menzel wanting out of Carlton for whatever reason and using his brother as an excuse to leave. Daniel may never play again so him wanting to play with his brother so much surely couldn't be the main factor.

Very, very simple answer from me at least.

I would not give up Guthrie for anything, and I have seen very little evidence that Menzel is going to be any better. It's nothing but speculation, partly fuelled I suspect by wishful thinking about how good his brother might have been.

 

[vinum coupe]

I think Guthrie will be an A grade mid.
So I wouldn't swap him. For almost anyone.
But I've seen enough of Troy. If that knee holds up he is going to be a match winner.

 

[WaxiesDargle]

Carlton need a big bodied forward with a tank.
Pick 15 and Walker should do it.

Do they know about his terrible kicking, poor decision making and inability to find the ball and impact games? if not....sshhhhh

 

[cynical]

If Menzel wants to leave it'll be first rounder + collection of young fringe players

Smedts + first rounder would be pretty close, Menzel is discounted cos of his knees

Guthrie wont be going anywhere

 

[JUBJUB]

Carlton need a big bodied forward with a tank.
Pick 15 and Walker should do it.

Walker & Casboult together should be enough to drive any Carlton fan insane.Both can mark,but if they're having a set-shot 30 metres out in front you'd be best to duck if you're sitting in the forward pocket seats.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

If Troy Menzel wanted to leave and play with his brother at Geelong, what do you guys think would be a fair deal?


Guthrie and your first (15ish)?

Lol, Guthrie and a first round pick for Menzel?

Why would we swap a gun young player for a gun young player with a troubled injury history whose brother we've been nursing back from four knee recos for the past three years?

I think you're severely underrating how highly valued Guthrie is.

 

[GFrost]

Pick and fringe player, yes.
Guthrie on his own, let alone with anything else, no chance.
Have you seen our coaches talk about Guthrie. Chris Scott can barely stop from grinning, he has started to try really hard not to pump him up too much. He has to try.

 

[Partridge]

Lol, Guthrie and a first round pick for Menzel?

Why would we swap a gun young player for a gun young player with a troubled injury history whose brother we've been nursing back from four knee recos for the past three years?

I think you're severely underrating how highly valued Guthrie is.

And severely overrating how good Menzel might be.

 

[onlymagic]

Reading the Carlton board it seems as though they rate Menzel as the next superstar of the comp. he may well turn out to be that, but I'm a bit more reserved.
I know each supporter group has a tendency to rate their players higher than outsiders but some posters are suggesting our P1 plus 'AT LEAST' one best 22 player such as GHS, Guthrie, Duncan etc.
This all for a player that, going off what Doc Larkins said about how long LARS grafts last, will need a traditional knee reco in the not too distant future.
I would love to have Troy at the club, but for that price no way.
I'd be offering our R2 plus Hunt as a starting point, which will in no way get the deal done but we aren't the type of club that will sell our soul for nothing but a potential gun with queries over his longevity.
The silly season has started already and it's only just ticked over into August...

 

[Vdubs]

Reading the Carlton board it seems as though they rate Menzel as the next superstar of the comp. he may well turn out to be that, but I'm a bit more reserved.
I know each supporter group has a tendency to rate their players higher than outsiders but some posters are suggesting our P1 plus 'AT LEAST' one best 22 player such as GHS, Guthrie, Duncan etc.
This all for a player that, going off what Doc Larkins said about how long LARS grafts last, will need a traditional knee reco in the not too distant future.
I would love to have Troy at the club, but for that price no way.
I'd be offering our R2 plus Hunt as a starting point, which will in no way get the deal done but we aren't the type of club that will sell our soul for nothing but a potential gun with queries over his longevity.
The silly season has started already and it's only just ticked over into August...

Menzel and Carlton will not part ways.

 

[Lana]

Reading the Carlton board it seems as though they rate Menzel as the next superstar of the comp. he may well turn out to be that, but I'm a bit more reserved.
I know each supporter group has a tendency to rate their players higher than outsiders but some posters are suggesting our P1 plus 'AT LEAST' one best 22 player such as GHS, Guthrie, Duncan etc.
This all for a player that, going off what Doc Larkins said about how long LARS grafts last, will need a traditional knee reco in the not too distant future.
I would love to have Troy at the club, but for that price no way.
I'd be offering our R2 plus Hunt as a starting point, which will in no way get the deal done but we aren't the type of club that will sell our soul for nothing but a potential gun with queries over his longevity.
The silly season has started already and it's only just ticked over into August...

Your offer is as ridiculous as their demand. It's the kind of trade that would never happen unless he refused to sign a contract and just walked out of the club.

 

[onlymagic]

Your offer is as ridiculous as their demand. It's the kind of trade that would never happen unless he refused to sign a contract and just walked out of the club.

Which is why I clearly stated after it that in no way would it get the deal done.

I don't expect Troy to leave the Blues.

 

[Lana]

Which is why I clearly stated after it that in no way would it get the deal done.

I don't expect Troy to leave the Blues.

Then why offer it? If I were given that as an offer I'd feel insulted.

Let's say your saw your friend leave a cake shop with a smile on his face, since he bought a $20 cake for $10 because the packaging was a little damaged. Upon hearing this and after he cuts a small piece off, it you offer to buy it off him for three dollars and an old cup cake that's been in your backpack for two week. Initially he thinks you joking but when he realizes that your serious, he decides to walk away endeavoring to avoid you in the future.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

I would never trade Guthrie for Troy Menzel.

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

I watched the movie "Draft Day" last night about the NFL draft in the US, and it blew me away that clubs could trade their draft picks in the 10 minutes they have to make a selection on the day. It was a very interesting look at how they do it in the US.

 

[cats_09]

I would never trade Guthrie

Personally, I think that reads better.

 

[manboob]

I watched the movie "Draft Day" last night about the NFL draft in the US, and it blew me away that clubs could trade their draft picks in the 10 minutes they have to make a selection on the day. It was a very interesting look at how they do it in the US.

So they can do it on the day as well?
That's pretty cool actually. Say you really want player X but he goes before your pick. You know you can get players A and B with two later picks. So you trade your early pick for two later ones. I like it.

No clubs would be willing to do it with Geelong though given the whole Wells thing... they'd be like "what are we missing?..."

 

[Pure_Ownage]

If Menzel wants to leave it'll be first rounder + collection of young fringe players

Smedts + first rounder would be pretty close, Menzel is discounted cos of his knees

Guthrie wont be going anywhere

Menzel will not be discounted (not Troy anyway) and no one would take Smedts as a significant part in any deal given his lack of form.

I think, barring asking for gun first 22 like players like Guthrie that we would not consider, Carlton would push for a high first round pick (which we don't have) + Kersten, as they went very hard at him last year.

FWIW I think Menzel will stay at Carlton.

 

[Lana]

So they can do it on the day as well?
That's pretty cool actually. Say you really want player X but he goes before your pick. You know you can get players A and B with two later picks. So you trade your early pick for two later ones. I like it.

No clubs would be willing to do it with Geelong though given the whole Wells thing... they'd be like "what are we missing?..."

If I am not mistaken, they can also trade players that they just drafted.

 

[manboob]

If I am not mistaken, they can also trade players that they just drafted.

I like it!

 

[Jazz71286]

The Carlton board seem to think that Wells rates Troy as a #1 pick and therefore any potential trade needs to reflect this. Does anybody actually have any proof of this statement?

The closest thing I could find was an SEN interview with Wells after the draft in which he was asked something along the lines of "if you could have anyone else from this draft who would you choose?" to which Wells responded "Menzel". I would read that in the context being 'who would you prefer to have taken with your pick if they were available', and Wells' response is no secret given we were into Menzel pre-draft.

In the end it comes down to interpretation but I think it would be somewhat dishonest to claim Wells stated Menzel is worth pick #1 based solely on that conversation.

 

[manboob]

Honestly, the biggest shame is all this is that he won't thrive at Carlton. All their "amazing" draftees have only ever become "pretty good". Even Juddy spudded it up when he was there.

 

[Pivo]

The Carlton board seem to think that Wells rates Troy as a #1 pick and therefore any potential trade needs to reflect this. Does anybody actually have any proof of this statement?

The closest thing I could find was an SEN interview with Wells after the draft in which he was asked something along the lines of "if you could have anyone else from this draft who would you choose?" to which Wells responded "Menzel". I would read that in the context being 'who would you prefer to have taken with your pick if they were available', and Wells' response is no secret given we were into Menzel pre-draft.

In the end it comes down to interpretation but I think it would be somewhat dishonest to claim Wells stated Menzel is worth pick #1 based solely on that conversation.

That SEN quote is basically it from what I can tell.

I suppose you can equate that to mean Wells thought Menzel was the best player in the draft or you could take it to mean (which I think someone else mentioned earlier) that Menzel was the player Wells wanted to take with our first pick.

There was a similar situation the year Travis Boak was drafted.

By all accounts we were massively into Boak...FOR OUR SELECTION AT 7 (as Wells and team believed he would be available there).

We got a good second prize that year.

 

[manboob]

We got a good second prize that year.

Best 22?