List Mgmt. 2014 Trade and Free Agency Targets Thread

[Horace]

Was just listing u25 players, Pendles is 26 turning 27 before the start of next season.

Okay. Pendles will be around for quite a while though and when you throw him into that group, their overall list does not look quite as bad as you suggest.

I think too many people are under-rating the Pies because of their drop off in the last half of the season. In my view I think this occurred to a fair degree because of their rather horrible injury run.

 

[Saintly31]

Um. Not exactly sure what you mean. The post I quoted said that we have no bargaining power compared to Collingwood because beams is contracted while Levi isn't.
But we have the same, if not more, bargaining power vs Collingwood than they have vs Brisbane.

So, Collingwood had a player that wanted to leave, they received an offer from another club. They refuse that offer and say that they will no longer deal with said club, club comes back saying they will improve the deal.

We have a player who wants to leave. We receive an offer for that player (which is far below his actual value), yet instead of saying that because the offer is too little we will attempt to trade him to other clubs, we just "roll over" and accept it.

Any questions?

Edit. We have as much bargaining power because there were other clubs interested in greenwood, and beams wants to go home to be with his sick dad, there is no way they were going to keep him at Collingwood next season.

No questions.

Just that you are wrong in your analysis.

Greenwood would have reached the Pies via the PSD. Very likely no one would have paid his agreed salary which is why he picked Pies to start with so he ends up there and we get nothing.

Pies refuse Beams deal. He is forced to play for Pies or sit the year out of the AFL. Lions realise they do want Beams next season so unsurprisingly ends up in a positive outcome for both parties.

With Greenwood there is no such reason for Pies to be generous. We should be happy with 25 for an uncontracted player that wanted out and get on with it.

They are very different situations whether you choose to accept it or otherwise.

 

[Sugar2Sideshow]

I still hold some slim hope that Daw can be salvaged into a Drew Petrie type sit in the goal square forward where we just bomb it to the hot spot where he just needs to run 5m, jump and take a grab for the post Drew era. I don't particularly rate him for any other role that requires football smarts, because he hasn't shown any natural football instinct.

That would require the club to stop playing him as predominately a ruckman in the VFL, getting a lot more core strength work done and a lot less bicep bulking weight work.

Why do we need a replacement for drew? We'll just get Boyd when he is out of contract next year. That makes him a free agent right?

 

[Horace]

At the risk of inviting ridicule, any interest in Taylor Hunt? I heard Balmey saying yesterday he would not be getting a spot on the Cat's list next year. I think he is a reasonable footballer and certainly a fairly good tagger. Would it be worth offering our last pick in the draft to the Cats?

 

[Horace]

Why do we need a replacement for drew? We'll just get Boyd when he is out of contract next year. That makes him a free agent right?

Works for me, but then again I'm not Boyd.

 

[Tas]

we were heavily weighted with inside mids with greenwood in the side. I think in time we will see that greenwood leaving is a blessing in disguise.

Let's be honest - Cunners, Spitta and Jack will always be played ahead of greenwood. Only reason he played this year is because of injury to Spitta. And in fairness to him, his form meant he couldn't be pushed out.

The key to a successful side is to have a good mix of inside and out.. I would argue that I would prefer to have Sewell beside me in the trenches ahead of Brad Hill. But Hill plays because he adds balance to the overall team.

Greenwood in the middle was > Ziebell in the middle, as much as I love Jack, he looked best when he was a half-forward.

I was just playing devil's advocate for those who suggested our strategy was to push hard for a flag within the next two years, losing Greenwood imo was disastrous if that was the mindset because Greenwood was one of our best performing midfielders this year.

The difference between Patrick and Swallow, Cunnington and Ziebell is when he gets the ball he plays aggressively, he will burst through the pack and we can gain significant momentum when he gets a clearance... assuming he doesn't shank the kick. We don't really generate that kind of momentum with our other inside mids, they tend to turn the ball over within the center square or just sink the boot to it so kicks often end up shallow.

Ziebell is the only one who really shows a lot of that aggression but only when there is ample space because he is slow over the first 10-15m so struggles to get the separation required to be damaging. Patrick is just very quick off the mark, gets that separation and more frequently gets into a position where he can get significant momentum.

The problem with out balance is that Swallow and Cunnington are too similar, and Ben is physically superior in terms of dealing witht he physical punishment you get from that position. Patrick was a far better complement for the extractor than having two extractors there. If Ben and Swallow get the ball the other is not very useful at the stoppage, when you add Ziebell into the mix you end up with three guys who do not complement eachother.

If Ziebell was a bashing, crashing 1%er plow who created space and one of Swallow was quick over the first 10-15m and played aggressively then that would be an amazing 3 core inside mids. The problem is they are not. Unless some of them can evolve their game or someone like McDonald can step in and step up then imo it will tarnish our short-term prospects.

 

[niko11]

I think there is to much emphasis on top picks i mean look at all the ones that didnt work out! Just because an 18 year old plays tac and is a top 30 pick doesnt necessarily make him better than a kid who plays seniors at his local club and and might be a third or fourth rounder! It comes back to culture and development like sydney and hawks

 

[Sugar2Sideshow]

No questions.

Just that you are wrong in your analysis.

Greenwood would have reached the Pies via the PSD. Very likely no one would have paid his agreed salary which is why he picked Pies to start with so he ends up there and we get nothing.

Pies refuse Beams deal. He is forced to play for Pies or sit the year out of the AFL. Lions realise they do want Beams next season so unsurprisingly ends up in a positive outcome for both parties.

With Greenwood there is no such reason for Pies to be generous. We should be happy with 25 for an uncontracted player that wanted out and get on with it.

They are very different situations whether you choose to accept it or otherwise.

Hmm you are probably right. But the least we could have done is said that we were unhappy with the offer from the pies and that we are entertaining offers from other clubs. Richmond were into both him and harper apparently, both of them for pick 12? The dogs were certainly into him, and they could probably give us better than pick 25.
I am mostly disappointed by a lack of genuine attempt to get something better for a pretty good player.

 

[Wild Bill]

Harvey wouldn't have helped at all when we were getting pantsed on the inside.

We would have been down by less. He can kick 3 in less than a minute and a half against Essendon. Hanson would also be a big in. We win that game taking greenwood out.

 

[niko11]

Ill use Archer as an example came straight frm local footy to become shimboner of the century...

 

[Tas]

Why do we need a replacement for drew? We'll just get Boyd when he is out of contract next year. That makes him a free agent right?

Who was the last big name we landed? Grant?

 

[Saintly31]

Hmm you are probably right. But the least we could have done is said that we were unhappy with the offer from the pies and that we are entertaining offers from other clubs. Richmond were into both him and harper apparently, both of them for pick 12? The dogs were certainly into him, and they could probably give us better than pick 25.
I am mostly disappointed by a lack of genuine attempt to get something better for a pretty good player.

Tigers might have wanted him but from all reports Pies offer was far beyond any other clubs hence his choice to a team on the slide. He can refuse the trade remember, he doesn't have to go just because we would rather deal with a different club. (from my understanding)

I am even more disappointed that this situation has arisen to start with, we should have locked him away earlier this year when it was obvious he was delivering and a key player.

Instead we signed up Bastinac and Adams for more years when both should have been dropped at the time.....bizarre.

 

[Tas]

We would have been down by less. He can kick 3 in less than a minute and a half against Essendon. Hanson would also be a big in. We win that game taking greenwood out.

We couldn't get our hands on the ball, Boomer played in many of those type of games this year and didn't change the outcome.

 

[Black2Blue]

If 25 becomes a gun, then we win. If a dud, we lose. A pick suggests the value. The draftee defines the value. Down to you now Brewis.

 

[Jimms]

I think there is to much emphasis on top picks i mean look at all the ones that didnt work out! Just because an 18 year old plays tac and is a top 30 pick doesnt necessarily make him better than a kid who plays seniors at his local club and and might be a third or fourth rounder! It comes back to culture and development like sydney and hawks

list the top 15 players in the competition and map them against draft position. it's not an exact science, but see if you can notice any correlation

 

[ohh_v]

Was content enough with 25 for Greenwood until I saw St. Kilda got 21 for Rhys Stanley

 

[Horace]

I wonder if St. Kilda would consider trading Pick 21 plus a player or late pick to us for Picks 25 and 36.

Just joshing. I just think Pick 21 hasn't been hawked around enough this trade period.

 

[King Corey]

I wonder if St. Kilda would consider trading Pick 21 plus a player or late pick to us for Picks 25 and 36.

Just joshing. I just think Pick 21 hasn't been hawked around enough this trade period.

What they will be doing is dangling all their sub-standard mid 20s players to anyone silly enough to offer something below 20.

Don't let it be us..

 

[kangaspurs]

Stanley and Greenwood have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Their respective trades may not reflect their current playing ability but are influenced by contract status and what the buying club has to offer. There are also more intangible influences, such as the fact that teams always pay overs for young KPP's (he's only 23), and that how much the chasing team actually want their player, as it seemed Geelong really went hard for him if they are willing to pay 21.

25 for Greenwood is probably slightly unders when you just consider his ability and results from this year but when you consider that he's out of contract, he nominated a club and 25 was just about all that club had to trade then it changes the entire situation. 25 is fair when you consider not only his ablity and results of this year but the other factors involved. We are by no means getting 'bent over.'

 

[Black2Blue]

I wonder if St. Kilda would consider trading Pick 21 plus a player or late pick to us for Picks 25 and 36.

Just joshing. I just think Pick 21 hasn't been hawked around enough this trade period.

Would be funny if pick 21 ends up winning the Rising Star. There would be tears at about 5 clubs.

 

[Comebackmick]

We probably would have been knocked out of the EF without Greenwood, is pick 25 going to fill that void?

That isn't a void.
It's a pothole in the highway 200 ks back.

 

[royals1922]

If 25 becomes a gun, then we win. If a dud, we lose. A pick suggests the value. The draftee defines the value. Down to you now Brewis.

Except of course Greenwood may go back to par form in which case we win

 

[Passmore]

Hmm you are probably right. But the least we could have done is said that we were unhappy with the offer from the pies and that we are entertaining offers from other clubs. Richmond were into both him and harper apparently, both of them for pick 12? The dogs were certainly into him, and they could probably give us better than pick 25.
I am mostly disappointed by a lack of genuine attempt to get something better for a pretty good player.

In all honesty we don't know what went on behind closed doors. North never run this shit through the media.

In the end we can't trade him against his will. If he goes in the PSD he ends up at Collingwood. Nowadays, players get where they want to go and no amount of bravado will change that.

Any draft pick over 5 sucks arse for a player who had such a good year. But a lottery ticket at 25 is better than nothing.

 

[TigerTime3]

Hate to say it but I think you've had the best trade period of everyone.

Played it smart but improving your team now and improving your draft position.

You'll cop a lot of criticism for "topping up" because 10 years ago teams used to have to sell their future to 'top up'. You didn't sell your future. Have exactly the same core group of young players as you would've had otherwise. Greenwood for 25 theoretically is just postponing talent, you're not losing talent.

Injuries and luck will always be a major factor in determining who 'wins' trade period, but I think your club understands FA better than most.

 

[Tas]

That isn't a void.
It's a pothole in the highway 200 ks back.

It is a void because we do not have anyone like him to fill that role he played in the short-term. We are obviously going to hope Wells and Macmillan play more this year, McDonald and Atley play more midfield and perhaps a Cooney can give us more on the outside.

However, the problem still remains that we had numerous problems this year getting our hands on the ball on the inside and Patrick was a significant factor in us winning games of footy this year we probably would have lost without him.

If we don't play more consistently on the inside then it is going to be a void.