Victoria Election - 29 November 2014

[GreyWind]

What I am saying is, I think the money could be better spent making life easier for paramedics, so that they can do their job the best that they can.

Say, for example, there is only enough money for one of these:- Money going into buying more ambulances, better equipment, more intensive training and first aid courses, and more stress leave, OR, more money in the pay packets of paramedics.

If it were me, I would want the system fixed first, then anything left over be used to pay ambos better, not the other way around.

Besides, once we pay the teachers, police, ambos, nurses and other public servants more, who else should we pay more. Everyone thinks that their job is hard and stressful. Also, why ask for it when the economy is bad? If there is a massive surplus, by all means, stick your hand out. But, in hard economic times, we all have to make sacrifices and maybe forgo pay rises for a certain time.

People don't get into these jobs to make money. They deserve to be paid to meet their needs, and have what most people have. But the satisfaction that they are saving lives, and the standing that they have in society is priceless, and beyond any money that we can ever pay them, so they will never be paid what they are worth.

Again, you need to look at this objectively, not subjectively, as you are probably only getting one side of the argument.

Buying more ambulances is useless if you don't have any paramedics to man them, plus the only equipment that will make their job easier/safer comes in the form of heavy lifting gear which most of the time can't be used because they are dealing with time sensitive situations and not to mention are incredibly expensive to fit. The university degree already takes 3 or 4 years depending on which university you go to and first aid =/= anything close to what is learnt through the degree.

You're right they don't get into the job to make money, they do it to help people but when you are shafted by the government and see all your peers in other states earning more money than you do of course you're going to ask for a pay rise. Not to mention the average career length is around 3-5 years depending on whom you ask.

 

[GTOA]

First nail in Abbott's coffin, if you don't count the WA senate elections.

Abbott will not lose the next election.

He has a sizable majority, which will take more than one election to overhaul. Shorten can't be trusted, stabbed two ex-PMS in the back, and is too tied to unions. The budget was bad, but all govts have a tough first budget (Howard's first one was a killer, and he won three elections). Besides, Abbott has stopped the boats, got rid of the carbon tax, headed the investigation into MH17 and stood up to Putin.

People will forget about this harsh budget in two years' time, and will be used to it.

 

[Play by Numbers]

I love how they're being casted as nasty unions who now control the Labor party.

The Libs are desperately out of touch if they think that card is going to work.

Evil ambos union, one of the least powerful and most moderate. In the end it was as much about conditions and function of service, as it was about pay.

 

[GTOA]

Buying more ambulances is useless if you don't have any paramedics to man them, plus the only equipment that will make their job easier/safer comes in the form of heavy lifting gear which most of the time can't be used because they are dealing with time sensitive situations and not to mention are incredibly expensive to fit. The university degree already takes 3 or 4 years depending on which university you go to and first aid =/= anything close to what is learnt through the degree.

You're right they don't get into the job to make money, they do it to help people but when you are shafted by the government and see all your peers in other states earning more money than you do of course you're going to ask for a pay rise. Not to mention the average career length is around 3-5 years depending on whom you ask.

But what are the economies of those other states? Maybe they can afford to pay it?

How do you propose we pay all these public servants more, without putting up taxes?

 

[Play by Numbers]

And the shit thing is that they are increasingly on the end of some campaigners punch.

Becoming a a dangerous job, thanks to drunk people who don't have the patience to wait and clock a cabby

 

[GTOA]

Yeah... smooth and subtle.

Catman 71 is a nutter who was banned by, I think by Jab for trolling injuries


Catman 71, that's you, gtoa, also made a bunch of threads where he made up lies about ambos.
And posted a heap of hate towards ambos, fireys, teachers and nurses.
Basically saying that are only in it for the money, and don't deserve it.

You also made a heap of threads crying about moderation.

So don't come in here, pretending you're above it all, and you don't have a huge agenda to push, hack.

So, because a second person thinks that these public servants don't put the sun in the sky and ask it to shine, that means that he must be the same person.

You know, more than one person can think the same way, but because you are too scared of being left on the side on the road by ambos for dissing them, you won't admit it.

You are probably an ambo or have a relative who is one, so who has the agenda?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

What did he do?

They sat by and watched Ford, Toyota and Holden **** off.

They sat by and let the Ambos wait for nothing.

They sat by and built jails to house prisoners but took money out of educational facilities that would stop the generational poverty that leads them to crime.

They rushed to sign the East West to make it a political tool.

They promised a Airport Link....promised.

...I mean seriously, what did they do for 4 years....and the voters have voted.

I live in Geelong and while I feel for the guys who worked at ford, it was right to stop giving taxpayer handouts to an unsustainable industry.

Secondly if the previous labor government didn't waste billions on myki and the desalination plant there'd be more money to give to the paramedics.

Every action has consequences, years of labor spending and waste is as much to blame for that.

I'm no expert about Melbourne traffic as my Melbourne travels are limited to mostly Etihad and MCG, but I have family and friends with political leanings on both sides, and live in various Melbourne suburbs both in the west and east. The overwhelming consensus is in favour of East west link.

My uncle is a chauffeur driver from Geelong/surfcoast and while a lot of his work is to the airport, he also traverses all parts of Melbourne and his vote for the coalition was purely based on his opinion of the dire need for East west link.

 

[GreyWind]

But what are the economies of those other states? Maybe they can afford to pay it?

How do you propose we pay all these public servants more, without putting up taxes?

At the moment I believe Victoria has the 4th strongest economy behind NSW, QLD and WA. South Australia has a worse economy yet manage to have some of the best paid ambos on the country.

Well one way would be to not waste a ridiculous amount of money on a road that isn't needed, it's also amazing to note that when the time came Napthine managed to give himself a pay-rise pretty quickly.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

What I am saying is, I think the money could be better spent making life easier for paramedics, so that they can do their job the best that they can.

Say, for example, there is only enough money for one of these:- Money going into buying more ambulances, better equipment, more intensive training and first aid courses, and more stress leave, OR, more money in the pay packets of paramedics.

If it were me, I would want the system fixed first, then anything left over be used to pay ambos better, not the other way around.

Besides, once we pay the teachers, police, ambos, nurses and other public servants more, who else should we pay more. Everyone thinks that their job is hard and stressful. Also, why ask for it when the economy is bad? If there is a massive surplus, by all means, stick your hand out. But, in hard economic times, we all have to make sacrifices and maybe forgo pay rises for a certain time.

My aunt is a teacher at a public school in Melbourne and because her husband is highly affluent, is the only member of staff not a member of the education union (despite Union official pressure, bordering on harassment).

She says that it's an endless cycle.

Vic teachers lowest paid, union whinges for pay rise - they get it.

This makes (hypothetically) NSW teachers lowest paid, they whinge that there the lowest paid and get a pay rise.

This goes around all the states and rinse and repeat, regardless of the party in power. This doesn't just apply to teachers but police, ambos etc.

It's a vicious cycle and what we saw was a government with the balls to stand up and say no.

Which we won't see for the next 4 years now that labor will pander to the unions.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I knew using a figure of speech in my post was a mistake.

I see what you're saying, if they save your life they're priceless and they'll never be paid what they truly deserve, but they should be paid what is affordable, whatever that figure may be.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Buying more ambulances is useless if you don't have any paramedics to man them, plus the only equipment that will make their job easier/safer comes in the form of heavy lifting gear which most of the time can't be used because they are dealing with time sensitive situations and not to mention are incredibly expensive to fit. The university degree already takes 3 or 4 years depending on which university you go to and first aid =/= anything close to what is learnt through the degree.

You're right they don't get into the job to make money, they do it to help people but when you are shafted by the government and see all your peers in other states earning more money than you do of course you're going to ask for a pay rise. Not to mention the average career length is around 3-5 years depending on whom you ask.

This is where I see the problem with the system nationally, these essential services are paid in a state by state system, which will naturally result in one state being the lowest paid and whinging about that as a result.

You see what I'm saying?

 

[The Coup]

Capitalism is notoriously bad at paying people what they're actually worth to their community/nation.

Nurses and Ambulance officers are by far the best example of that.

 

[Jab]

Yeah... smooth and subtle.

Catman 71 is a nutter who was banned by, I think by Jab

You are correct. I am the scumbag mod who did such things, but I was one of a few others.

There have been a few ordinary things happen in this thread, try to steer clear of the shitfights and we'll all get along just nicely. Except for me. I'm a campaigner mod.

 

[GreyWind]

This is where I see the problem with the system nationally, these essential services are paid in a state by state system, which will naturally result in one state being the lowest paid and whinging about that as a result.

You see what I'm saying?

I completely see what you're saying, each state eventually becomes the lowest paid. But one of the main problems though has been the way in which the government has treated both ambulance and MFB workers through their respective MBAs.

 

[scon]

I always say if you're looking for respect in this world,avoid talking a heap of

 

[Gus Poyet]

My uncle is a chauffeur driver from Geelong/surfcoast and while a lot of his work is to the airport, he also traverses all parts of Melbourne and his vote for the coalition was purely based on his opinion of the dire need for East west link.

Is his name Tom?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Is his name Tom?

No.

 

[Gus Poyet]

You are probably an ambo or have a relative who is one, so who has the agenda?

My Mrs is a Mica Paramedic. She hates Labour however. Voted LDP and one of her fellow paramedics was running for the LDP.

We just got a trip to Hawaii paid for by Labor getting in. Labor are awesome at spending other peoples money

 

[radiojake]

You're the same poster, and you're still a nutter who is full of shit.

....
Criminals CHOOSE to commit crime.

....

Firstly, these people CHOOSE to be ambos.

confirmed

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I completely see what you're saying, each state eventually becomes the lowest paid. But one of the main problems though has been the way in which the government has treated both ambulance and MFB workers through their respective MBAs.

I just think it's a flawed system which probably not by design allows state divisions of relevant unions to politicise the push for a pay rise (not saying they do it everytime though) by playing the lowest paid/worst conditions card.

For me it then as a result muddies the water as to what they deserve to be paid and how much (or little) extra mayo the system has added to their pay and conditions.

I don't know the ins and outs of this particular dispute nor profess to know a possible solution, I'm just speaking more broadly on the topic.

 

[Maggie5]

My Mrs is a Mica Paramedic. She hates Labour however. Voted LDP and one of her fellow paramedics was running for the LDP.

We just got a trip to Hawaii paid for by Labor getting in. Labor are awesome at spending other peoples money

Give it up you are repeating yourself, nobody replied last time hopefully nobody plays you game this time. Troll.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Give it up you are repeating yourself, nobody replied last time hopefully nobody plays you game this time. Troll.

Troll? To what part?

 

[Maggie5]

Did PUP field any candidates?

I think that the fielded a few but too early to tell. I heard that it could end up including a mixture of minor parties. Wouldn't think that Labor would have a majority though.

 

[Aussie Joe]

It's all cyclical. Labour cames in and wastes the money. Liberals then voted in and cleans shop. Gets labelled the bad guys, and in comes back Labour to screw the pooch again.

 

[illavitar]

It's all cyclical. Labour cames in and wastes the money. Liberals then voted in and cleans shop. Gets labelled the bad guys, and in comes back Labour to screw the pooch again.

Is that why John Howard pissed away 314 billion in tax revenue in 2007 lol? You blokes must be absolutely warped in the head. Outrageous look it up for yourself it's 314 billion... sums our current debt up quite nicely

How the **** people can't link simple fact right in front of them is something I'll never be able to understand. Some bizarre form of Murdoch Magic it must be.