No Oppo Supporters Re-signing Tex, Danger and Sloane *** Crows Only ***

[mickfaxis]

Look he's a very good player. This is not worth arguing.
If you can't see that, then its a reflection on you not dougie.

We all get things wrong from time to time. don't make it worse cause you're looking silly

I'd only look silly if I thought he wasn't a good player, but I don't think that so case closed.

 

[Sanders]

Regardless, I guess we'll never know if he's in the best 22 of every team in the comp, so I'm happy to leave it at that.

he's one of our BEST players, certainly one of the top 10, not a fringe guy. So yes we do know.

If your goal was to be a recognised as a truly, sincerely awful judge of the game you've succeeded. kudos.

You might like to take a look at this:
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-06/sloane-top-crow-in-close-count

Dougie won in 2010, finished close runner in 2013. Won one, 2nd in another year.

He also made the ****ing all australian squad in 2013.

Let that sink in, a guy 12 months on from the all australian squad is not good to make a number of teams best 22? C'mon.

 

[mickfaxis]

[QUOTE="he's basically saying Lloyd from swans gets a game before him. .... He'd be top 12 of any club , andrew Moore or Douglas .... Please [/QUOTE]

Again, I don't deny he's a good player. But your saying he's top 12 of any club when he finished 10th in our B&F. Wow!!

 

[mickfaxis]

he's one of our BEST players, certainly one of the top 10, not a fringe guy. So yes we do know.

If your goal was to be a recognised as a truly, sincerely awful judge of the game you've succeeded. kudos.

You might like to take a look at this:
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-06/sloane-top-crow-in-close-count

Dougie won in 2010, finished close runner in 2013. Won one, 2nd in another year.

He also made the ******* all australian squad in 2013.

Let that sink in, a guy 12 months on from the all australian squad is not good to make a number of teams best 22? C'mon.

Yes...he was a gun then. If he can reproduce that form this year then we'll be a better team and happier supporters. Then he can command 450 kegs a year as a FA.

I'm hoping he can.

 

[feenix67]

Yes...he was a gun then. If he can reproduce that form this year then we'll be a better team and happier supporters. Then he can command 450 kegs a year as a FA.

I'm hoping he can.

You do realise he had a fairly significant setback last year, right?

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

As the sub in some of them?

yeah rightyo

 

[mickfaxis]

You do realise he had a fairly significant setback last year, right?

Yep. Missed 3 games.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

I agree with you on most things Sanders but I'm not sold on Dougie.

He's had two outstanding years out of (without checking) 9 in the system and besides those two, has been mediocre.

The thing that concerns me most is that he plays his best footy in losing causes. 2010 and 2013 were two of our worst years in the last 10-15. Even at junior level, the year he won the TAC Cup medal was the only year Calder Cannons wasn't right at the pointy end in about 10 years.

I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's clearly not. I'd rather keep him than lose him. But I don't see him as a big difference maker and wouldn't lose a lot of sleep if he did go. I tend to agree that he is expendable.

Of course, if we did lose him I'd expect us to do something useful with the cap space (which might just be to retain Danger/Sloane).

 

[Samcro24]

Yep. Missed 3 games.

And a bollock

 

[andrew webster]

Apparently Jars is dropping a big rumour - something about an Adelaide person in the departure lounge.

What a surprise

Yep heard that it is more than one, one off to Freo is the mail I'm getting.

 

[Houston]

Classic Webster

Yep heard that it is more than one, one off to Freo is the mail I'm getting.

 

[feenix67]

Yep. Missed 3 games.

Now you're just being silly.

 

[DD#23]

 

[1990crow]

Yep heard that it is more than one, one off to Freo is the mail I'm getting.

What he heck are you even talking about.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yep heard that it is more than one, one off to Freo is the mail I'm getting.

Groom & modra?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yep. Missed 3 games.

Do you think playing with a cricket box & tender balls may hinder a footballer, particularly their kicking?

Have a realy, really hard think about it!

There was a very good reason why dougy wasn't his classy self in 2014.

 

[Glenno23]

Yep heard that it is more than one, one off to Freo is the mail I'm getting.

LOL

I'll be worried when you come even close to getting one right.....

 

[MRB37]

I've been harsh on Dougie in the past, but he's an important part of the midfield. Not an A grader like Sloane or Danger, but you need those B level guys in your midfield to help out. The fact that at his best he's a guy that coaches will target with a tagger is a big bonus to have to free up your other mids.

 

[AFC979810]

I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's clearly not. I'd rather keep him than lose him. But I don't see him as a big difference maker and wouldn't lose a lot of sleep if he did go. I tend to agree that he is expendable.

How is he expendable?

By your logic you wouldn't lose any sleep losing anyone bar Sloane/Danger/Tex/Talia/Jacobs/Betts?

Its all very well for people to use throw away lines about players that aren't elite and say they are easily expendable. His value to our side has been proven over the past 2 years. Was a top 10 player at our club both years. He is also a goalkicking midfielder - a very important aspect our side needs to improve on in 2015.

If he goes - who replaces him? Its not like we are an elite side with highly ranked juniors busting to get into the team.

Of course, if we did lose him I'd expect us to do something useful with the cap space (which might just be to retain Danger/Sloane).

If a team like ours doesn't have the cap space to retain Danger/Sloane then we are the worst salary cap managers in all of football. Considering we had all that cap room in 2013/2014 that we had kept aside for Tippett and the fact that we signed Walker to a deal that is well below his market value - we have ridiculous amounts of cap space.

Our list doesn't need more cap space. It needs more quality players. Losing Douglas would be a terrible blow.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

How is he expendable?

Well, first I think about players I think our team could do without. When I realise one of them is Douglas, that's how I say he's expendable.

"How is he expendable?" What a meaningless question. It's my opinion.

By your logic you wouldn't lose any sleep losing anyone bar Sloane/Danger/Tex/Talia/Jacobs/Betts?

Add Smith and maybe Jenkins to that list, and that's pretty well right. That's the core of the team. The rest of the guys, your Jaensch, Wright, Mackay, van Berlo, and yes Douglas types are a dime a dozen.

I'll acknowledge that Dougie is probably a good B grader, but he's certainly not an A grader.

Its all very well for people to use throw away lines about players that aren't elite and say they are easily expendable. His value to our side has been proven over the past 2 years. Was a top 10 player at our club both years.

"Top 10" is a vague and pretty unhelpful descriptor. 2nd is very good. 10th is middle of the road.

Now he had very well publicized problems last year which go some way to explaining a meh season, but the fact is we are not looking at a 22 year old kid anymore. His career hasn't taken the usual trajectory of improvement to a peak in his mid-late 20s. There have been two very sharp peaks amongst a whole pile of meh. Using history as a guide, he probably has another outstanding year left in his career and 3-4 reasonable ones.

I'm not saying he doesn't have value. Just that if there's a squeeze and somebody misses out, he's one who we can replace. You made the point yourself. He's not elite. Replace him with one of the guys I mention below, and we are not a whole lot worse. They may even improve to the point where we become better.

He is also a goalkicking midfielder - a very important aspect our side needs to improve on in 2015.

I'm not convinced "more goals from midfield" was top of Phil Walsh's whiteboard on day 1 of pre-season. Kicking goals is not this team's problem.

If he goes - who replaces him? Its not like we are an elite side with highly ranked juniors busting to get into the team.

Kerridge, Lyons, Grigg and the Crouch brothers played 52 games between the 5 of them last year. Charlie Cameron - if he's considered capable of rotating through - only played 7. I'm sure we could rustle someone up. Playing 4th banana midfield is not easy, but it's probably one area of our list where we do have some options.

If a team like ours doesn't have the cap space to retain Danger/Sloane then we are the worst salary cap managers in all of football.

That might be so. But let's say we are in a bind, who do you want to lose out of the three of them?

Considering we had all that cap room in 2013/2014 that we had kept aside for Tippett and the fact that we signed Walker to a deal that is well below his market value - we have ridiculous amounts of cap space.

This is just speculation. We have no idea (1) whether we still have Tippett cap space (2) whether Tex signed for below market value or (3) how much cap space we have, if any.

Our list doesn't need more cap space. It needs more quality players. Losing Douglas would be a terrible blow.

You know that cap space can be utilized to obtain services of football players, right? I'm not advocating that we try and win the salary cap space premiership. I'm advocating for using (probably about) half a million dollars of the space on better players than Richard Douglas - whether that is just retaining our best existing players or gives us the opportunity to recruit from elsewhere.

 

[AFC979810]

Well, first I think about players I think our team could do without. When I realise one of them is Douglas, that's how I say he's expendable.

"How is he expendable?" What a meaningless question. It's my opinion.

Fair enough. I disagree with your opinion. It could just be semantics over the definition of expendable.

I think that Douglas was tradeable and was all for trading him at the end of 2013 when his value was the highest. I think we would have been better off as a list if we traded him. Now the issue is that if he leaves - we get minimal compensation back which really hurts us.

Add Smith and maybe Jenkins to that list, and that's pretty well right..

Fair enough. I would suggest that for a list as average as ours we would need to keep our top 10 players - of which Douglas is most certainly in.

"Top 10" is a vague and pretty unhelpful descriptor. 2nd is very good. 10th is middle of the road..

Not really. Its not middle of the road. 40-45 players on a list. If you finish inside the top 10 of your clubs list you are in the best 20%-25% at the club

Now he had very well publicized problems last year which go some way to explaining a meh season, but the fact is we are not looking at a 22 year old kid anymore. His career hasn't taken the usual trajectory of improvement to a peak in his mid-late 20s. There have been two very sharp peaks amongst a whole pile of meh. Using history as a guide, he probably has another outstanding year left in his career and 3-4 reasonable ones.

Don't disagree with this.

I'm not saying he doesn't have value. Just that if there's a squeeze and somebody misses out, he's one who we can replace. You made the point yourself. He's not elite. Replace him with one of the guys I mention below, and we are not a whole lot worse. They may even improve to the point where we become better.

We are worse off though. Kerridge, Grigg, Lyons and M Crouch performances were nowhere near the quality and consistency of Richard Douglas. Thats not to say they won't be in the future - but they are nowhere near Richie.

I don't disagree with the premise - but just think it would probably be a better discussion for a player like Wright who is actually expendable.

I'm not convinced "more goals from midfield" was top of Phil Walsh's whiteboard on day 1 of pre-season. If you'd said he was a two-way running midfielder, I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

Disagree. I think its a big thing the midfield group will have worked on during the offseason.

Kerridge, Lyons, Grigg and the Crouch brothers played 52 games between the 5 of them last year. Charlie Cameron - if he's considered capable of rotating through - only played 7. I'm sure we could rustle someone up. Playing 4th banana midfield is not easy, but it's probably one area of our list where we do have some options.

They all have a chance of eventually being better than Douglas. There is also a very big difference between showing glimpses for a few games and consistently producing over the course of an AFL season.

That might be so. But let's say we are in a bind, who do you want to lose out of the three of them?

If we are in a bind over not being able to keep Sloane/Danger/Douglas purely based on Salary Cap then I couldn't care less who we keep because we are completely and utterly incompetent and will never challenge for a flag until we become competent. If we can't keep together a list that has missed the finals 4 out of the last 5 years and signed Tex to a deal that is reportedly worth 700k per season - then we are well and truly f*****.

This is just speculation. We have no idea (1) whether we still have Tippett cap space (2) whether Tex signed for below market value or (3) how much cap space we have, if any.

Of course its speculation - since the clubs don't release the actual salary cap figures.

1. So where did the Tippett money go? We had publicly acknowledged we had set aside money to give Kurt Tippett a big offer for the 2013/2014/2015 seasons. Where did this money go?

2. It is reported that Tex signed for $700,000 per year. I would say this is below market value.

3. Yes its speculation that we have Cap Space. I would say its pretty obvious we should have lots of cap space.

You know that cap space can be utilized to obtain services of football players, right? I'm not advocating that we try and win the salary cap space premiership. I'm advocating for using (probably about) half a million dollars of the space on better players than Richard Douglas.

Thats a great idea. Lets get rid of our top players to clear cap room for the chance of getting in better players!!! This is up there with having a coaching mantra consisting of the phrase "If we can kick more goals than the opposition we are a good chance of winning the game".

 

[Elder van Berlo]

^ I like this post better. A few points:

- re Tippett money, we signed Betts since then and have probably re-signed most of the rest of our squad. I'd be surprised if it hasn't been absorbed by now. I could be wrong, obviously.

- until the new banking scheme came in, it has been impossible to have too much cap space because of the 95% floor. 5% is only about 450k.

- there are only two circumstances in which I would be willing to let Dougie walk: 1. If it was necessary to retain Danger and Sloane or 2. If doing so allowed us to recruit a target, e.g. Aish.

- your point re compensation is well made. But if, for example, we could let Dougie walk in FA, probably get an end of first rounder as compo, and trade our actual first rounder for Aish while hanging onto Danger and Sloane, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

- importantly, I reckon Dougie is a player whose reputation (especially across the border) exceeds his output. I reckon a Victorian team (or maybe even Freo - Lyon has tagged him previously) will offer him a lot of money. Easily 500k, probably 600. I don't want us paying him that. I'd rather have Wright on 150 and go shopping with the change.

 

[AFC979810]

re Tippett money, we signed Betts since then and have probably re-signed most of the rest of our squad. I'd be surprised if it hasn't been absorbed by now. I could be wrong, obviously.

- until the new banking scheme came in, it has been impossible to have too much cap space because of the 95% floor. 5% is only about 450k.

The Salary floor has absolutely no relevance to us as a club. As a big and financially sound club - we should be getting as close to the 100% of the cap as possible every single year.

You would imagine we would have been 100% of the cap (and for arguments sake lets say we were). We would have structured up our salary cap so that we would have had space of between 600k and 800k a year for Tippets next contract For the sake of this discussion lets just call it an arbitrary 650k.

So entering 2013 we didn't gain any players so we would have had a spare 650k sitting there in the bank. Of course I realise that there are other salary cap fluctuations that occur each year - but for the sake of this discussion lets leave them out. We would have manipulated and front loaded player contracts so that we spent the 650k in 2013 and therefore saved it for 2014. Then entering the 2014 season we have the rolled over 650k in our salary cap budget plus an additional 650k that we would had set aside for Tippos 2014 season. Suddenly we have 1.3 million to spend.

Entering 2014 we sign Eddie Betts to a 4 year deal reportedly worth approx 2million. The smart thing to do would have been to use that $1.3 million in heavily front loading Eddie's contract so that his cap hit in 2016 (when Danger, Tex, Sloane, Douglas would all hit the market) would be minimal. Thats how you should properly manipulate the salary cap to your advantage.

Now - thats not to say we did this. We could have easily gone - hey we have an extra 650k in the salary cap for seasons 2013/2014 lets give it as bonuses to existing players. Considering our previous administration - this isn't out of the question.

 

[Red mist]

- re Tippett money, we signed Betts since then and have probably re-signed most of the rest of our squad. I'd be surprised if it hasn't been absorbed by now. I could be wrong, obviously.

We have 21 out of contract at end of season.

 

[CrowsB4hoes]

Yep heard that it is more than one, one off to Freo is the mail I'm getting.

Whoever it is, when the story breaks, do you reckon you can spell the guy's name right this time?