All Australian thread 2015

[Moist Biscuit]

Wingard and Betts are the small forwards. Rioli isn't even averaging 2 goals a game. In what world is he All Australian?

 

[Wargreymon90]

Wingard and Betts are the small forwards. Rioli isn't even averaging 2 goals a game. In what world is he All Australian?

Pressure acts man

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

I would have LeCras in befor Rioli to be honest

 

[The Gov]

I would have LeCras in befor Rioli to be honest

And for us I'd have Cripps in before Lecras (he won't get anywhere near the 22 actually of course), the pressure he creates in our forward line is immense and important to our relative success this year. People talking about Riolis pressure creating goals are talking about something Cripps does at a less noticeable but arguably still as effective level.

"pressure forward" has never really been a spot in the AA team though which is why I reckon they'll just put Wingard and maybe Betts in and then just stack the forward line with midfielders (not that I agree with this but it's what'll happen)

 

[NinjaSwan]

There is a lot of talk about 'locks' so I had a look at every side posted on here in the past week (9 sides, had to exclude 1 as they left the last bench spot as ?) to see which players are in every side. Overall there were 39 different players selected.

Locks according to BF:
Alex Rance
Luke Hodge
Andrew Gaff
Dan Hannebery
Patrick Dangerfield
Josh J. Kennedy
Chad Wingard
Todd Goldstein
Nat Fyfe
Scott Pendlebury
Matt Priddis

11/22 are agreed on unanimously

Almost locks - chosen by 8/9:
Heath Shaw
Sam Mitchell
Easton Wood

Unique choices - chosen by either 1/9 or 2/9:
Brad Sheppard - 1
Jake Stringer - 1
Trent Cotchin - 1
Daniel Talia - 2
Dustin Martin - 2
Jack Steven - 1
Dane Swan - 2
Josh Gibson - 2
Brett Deledio - 2
Shaun Higgins - 2
Stefan Martin - 1
David Armitage - 2
Cyril Rioli - 2
Garrick Ibbotson - 1
Luke McPharlin - 1

Interesting that 29/39 players that were chosen appeared in 1,2,8 or 9 out of 9 sides.

The players in the middle were:
Michael Hurley - 6
Jeremy Cameron - 4
Eddie Betts - 7
Nic Naitanui - 3
David Mundy - 6
Rory Laird - 5
Jack Gunston - 5
Robbie Gray - 3
Jack Riewoldt - 6
Robert Murphy - 6

 

[Righteo]

Pressure acts man

Chris Mayne for AA!

 

[fidstar]

There is a lot of talk about 'locks' so I had a look at every side posted on here in the past week (9 sides, had to exclude 1 as they left the last bench spot as ?) to see which players are in every side. Overall there were 39 different players selected.

Locks according to BF:
Alex Rance
Luke Hodge
Andrew Gaff
Dan Hannebery
Patrick Dangerfield
Josh J. Kennedy
Chad Wingard
Todd Goldstein
Nat Fyfe
Scott Pendlebury
Matt Priddis

11/22 are agreed on unanimously

Almost locks - chosen by 8/9:
Heath Shaw
Sam Mitchell
Easton Wood

Unique choices - chosen by either 1/9 or 2/9:
Brad Sheppard - 1
Jake Stringer - 1
Trent Cotchin - 1
Daniel Talia - 2
Dustin Martin - 2
Jack Steven - 1
Dane Swan - 2
Josh Gibson - 2
Brett Deledio - 2
Shaun Higgins - 2
Stefan Martin - 1
David Armitage - 2
Cyril Rioli - 2
Garrick Ibbotson - 1
Luke McPharlin - 1

Interesting that 29/39 players that were chosen appeared in 1,2,8 or 9 out of 9 sides.

The players in the middle were:
Michael Hurley - 6
Jeremy Cameron - 4
Eddie Betts - 7
Nic Naitanui - 3
David Mundy - 6
Rory Laird - 5
Jack Gunston - 5
Robbie Gray - 3
Jack Riewoldt - 6
Robert Murphy - 6

Interesting Sandi wasn't picked once.

 

[MotleyLemon]

I purposefully said "score involvements for his teammates" in trying to make a point about Cyril's unselfishness. Some people want their gun small forward to be selfish and snap goals from all angles, but this undervalues the key point I tried to make about the underrated aspect of Rioli's game.

Wingard, Betts and Rioli have all had the same similar numbers of score involvements and goal assists (the possession prior to goal)

Wingard and Betts have had more shots at goal than Cyril and kicked more goals. However, if you subtract their scoring shots from their overall score involvement totals, you'll find Cyril has set up way more scores for his teammates than those two. Wingard and Betts are deadly finishers, but Cyril is more of a set-up player. (Luke Breust has also kicked the same number of goals as Wingard and Betts, but how many of his goals could we attribute to Rioli's good work?)

Goals
49 Eddie Betts, (avg 2.72)
47 Chad Wingard (avg 2.47)
45 Luke Breust (avg 2.37)
36 Michael Walters (avg 1.89)
32 Cyril Rioli (avg 1.78)

Assists
17 Cyril Rioli (avg 0.94)
17 Chad Wingard (avg 0.89)
14 Eddie Betts (avg 0.78)
13 Luke Breust (avg 0.68)
11 Michael Walters (avg 0.58)

Score involvements
143 Luke Breust (avg 7.53)
136 Chad Wingard (avg 7.16)
132 Eddie Betts (avg 7.33)
131 Cyril Rioli (avg 7.28)
112 Michael Walters (avg 5.89)

Scoring shots
71 Chad Wingard (3.74)
69 Eddie Betts (3.83)
61 Luke Breust (3.21)
53 Michael Walters (2.79)
50 Cyril Rioli (2.78)

Score involvements minus scoring shots
82 Luke Breust (4.32)
81 Cyril Rioli (4.50)
65 Chad Wingard (3.42)
63 Eddie Betts (3.50)
59 Michael Walters (3.11)


Another thing about these "score involvements", I'm not 100% certain, but I'm fairly sure these only count the players who were involved in the possession chain which led to a score. So they don't count the score involvements when Rioli tackles a player and strips the ball loose, or when he intercepts an opposition kick or handball by getting a hand in there and causing the turnover, or when he doesn't even take possession, but simply taps the ball onto Breust, Gunstan, Roughead and Puopolo - some of these tap ons are better than a possession because they give defenders no time to react.

Rioli is the king of this stuff. Not just the raw number totals, but the timing and quality of his work and the effect it has on the game.


Tackles
80 Cyril Rioli (avg 4.44)
70 Luke Breust (avg 3.68)
58 Chad Wingard (avg 3.05)
52 Eddie Betts (avg 2.89)
47 Michael Walters (avg 2.47)

One-percenters
43 Cyril Rioli (avg 2.39)
23 Eddie Betts (avg 1.28)
22 Chad Wingard (avg 1.16)
19 Michael Walters (avg 1.00)
18 Luke Breust (avg 0.95)


It would be interesting to see the score involvements emanating from these last two statistical categories.
I'd venture to say, Rioli would be a clear number one if they measured that.

At the end of the day, people can ignore the tackles and one-percenters when rating the small forwards. They can focus purely on the goals and the highlight reel stuff (the arsey snaps and the speckies) but I think it's selling Rioli's overall contribution short. When the hawk fans make their way home after another win and they speak in raptures about Rioli, they're not just discussing his 15 disposals, 2 goals and a specky - it's the 5 or 6 goals he created with his chasing, tackling, clever taps-ons and timely intercepts.

Great post.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I heart robbie Gray

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Yeah Robbie Gray being omitted from some teams is really surprising. Even from a stats point of view, he's clearly one of the most dominating. High disposals, #1 in midfield goals, over 70% DE

And I think tonight showed that Wingard is like 5 times the player Rioli is.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Wingard is a lock, but Gray should make it now.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

When have we last seen a small forward put together a season like wingard?

Not just the goals.. But getting so involved upfield

 

[The_Eagles]

Alright Gray bench for me despite his odd fluff

 

[billy fragos]

Rioli can piss off, Wingard is by a country mile the best small forward in the competition betts is the second best.

 

[Wargreymon90]

Rioli can piss off, Wingard is by a country mile the best small forward in the competition betts is the second best.

I never thought I'd like one of your posts

 

[Dogsman16]

FB: Murphy, Rance, Wood
HB: Mitchell, Hurley, Hodge
C: Gaff, Fyfe, Hannerbury
BF: Gray, Riewoldt, Wingard
FF: Stringer, J.P.Kennedy, Betts
R: Goldstein, Pendelbury, Priddis
Int: Dangerfield, Mundy, J.J Kennedy, Bruest

 

[blaisee]

In fairness I think most people accept now that Wingard is a lock for either a FP or HFF spot. They're talking about a 2nd small forward, and it's probably between Betts, Rioli and Bruest.

what about Dustin Martin?

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

FB: Murphy, Rance, Wood
HB: Mitchell, Hurley, Hodge
C: Gaff, Fyfe, Hannerbury
BF: Gray, Riewoldt, Wingard
FF: Stringer, J.P.Kennedy, Betts
R: Goldstein, Pendelbury, Priddis
Int: Dangerfield, Mundy, J.J Kennedy, Bruest

Stringer won't make the 22

 

[Dogsman16]

Stringer won't make the 22

I think he's been more effective than Gunston as that third tall, 2 less games with the same amount of goals. He's 50/50 I guess but he's in great form and I'm expecting a big seasons finish. He might sneak in.

 

[El_Scorcho]

what about Dustin Martin?

Martin probably isn't a small forward for this discussion, he's a midfielder that goes forward. He's competing with the likes of Robbie Gray for a flank/bench spot you'd imagine. I'd personally have Gray just shading him, but i'm too biased to make that decision really.

 

[blaisee]

Martin probably isn't a small forward for this discussion, he's a midfielder that goes forward. He's competing with the likes of Robbie Gray for a flank/bench spot you'd imagine. I'd personally have Gray just shading him, but i'm too biased to make that decision really.

not sure why rioli or betts would get a game ahead of martin.

martin is just as effective as a forward when he is down there.

the problem with martin is he is just as effective as a midfielder, why is he penalised because he is a midfielder as well while the other 2 are not .

IMHO

players that average a goal a game and over 20 possessions should be automatic selections in the aa team. They are the true elite players in the competition and should be acknownledged and rewarded accordingly.

 

[eth-dog]

I think he's been more effective than Gunston as that third tall, 2 less games with the same amount of goals. He's 50/50 I guess but he's in great form and I'm expecting a big seasons finish. He might sneak in.

Would expect Cameron instead.

 

[billy fragos]

not sure why rioli or betts would get a game ahead of martin.

martin is just as effective as a forward when he is down there.

the problem with martin is he is just as effective as a midfielder, why is he penalised because he is a midfielder as well while the other 2 are not .

IMHO

players that average a goal a game and over 20 possessions should be automatic selections in the aa team. They are the true elite players in the competition and should be acknownledged and rewarded accordingly.

Based on that stevie J is a lock.

 

[billy fragos]

not sure why rioli or betts would get a game ahead of martin.

martin is just as effective as a forward when he is down there.

the problem with martin is he is just as effective as a midfielder, why is he penalised because he is a midfielder as well while the other 2 are not .

IMHO

players that average a goal a game and over 20 possessions should be automatic selections in the aa team. They are the true elite players in the competition and should be acknownledged and rewarded accordingly.

30 more goals might be apart of the reason

 

[Stevey J]

Is Hodge still a lock assuming he gets a 2 week suspension and after having a poor game last night? Would mean he has missed 5 games for the season, does he still make the 22?