List Mgmt. 2015 Trade & Free Agency Hellscape Discussion Thread (PG546: Anderson PG732: Bastinac)

[ozzyoslo]

so who precicely was deserving and not given a go?

Mckenzie........only got the one game and did well I'm surprised nobody enquired about him.

 

[marklovesbeer]

Thank god I've been busy today. Nothing on the AFL website and nothing too exciting here re Aish/Ablett/Fyfe/Sheil/Basti/Black.

Our average age will plummet next year when Boomer, Drew, Spud and Wells retire.

I don't think Harvey will retire just yet.

 

[Higgins2Waite]

Thank god I've been busy today. Nothing on the AFL website and nothing too exciting here re Aish/Ablett/Fyfe/Sheil/Basti/Black.

Our average age will plummet next year when Boomer, Drew, Spud and Wells retire.

I don't see a need for Boomer to retire. Like Dal hasn't dropped off

 

[koshari]

Forward Aaron Black could be on the move. Picture: Wayne Ludbey

yep, from North Ballarat to Weribee

 

[Heaps of fun]

personally i i dont really think its an exact science, on any given year there are going to be plenty of clubs much better resourced that as BF folk failing in this pursuit.

It's not but it's always more complicated than picking "the best 22 players".

 

[archereleven]

I too, think we'll may fall short with these players, what do you do with these players come this time next year?

Boomer retires after breaking games record? He wants to be a 1 team player and Im weighing in that we wont extend his contract when the others will go.
Dish, retires.
Waite, may extend his life by another year.
Dal Santo, same same but different........we should help him get his medallion it may be at another club. But we shouldn't be paying the big dollars.
Wells, fingers crossed but more than likely not to get up for 2016, if he does its a bonus.
Thompson not sure to be honest. He has gone backwards, many would argue this year.

Your assessment of Harvey straight out of the gates is woeful.

He isnt playing to break the games record, he is playing to win a flag, so no, he wont be retiring when he breaks the games record and nor should he. He still offers to this side something no one else can offer and is still all class with ball in hand. We are simply a much better team with Harvey in it.

Boomer will retire on his terms, not Brads. I would be outraged if Boomer wanted to play on and the club didnt offer him a contract after another good season! The hawks should of thrown Tuck to the wolves as well instead of letting him captain limp into 6 GF wins i guess :rolleyethingy:

They can all go on in my mind. The only bloke there with a question mark is Wells who cant get on the park for one reason or another.

If young blokes these days are so short sighted and so selfish they cant let the club go for broke to try and win a flag, well they can **** right off. ie. Dont piss and moan if you cant displace one of them, roll up the sleeves and improve or STFU and wait your turn

 

[giantroo]

 

[Tas]

Good post Tas.

The talk about the age profile is mostly lazy journalism as anyone who analyzes North's list closely can see that our core players are the 20-something group and just Petrie and Harvey the immediate retirements that will impact the team. We have, however, seen how much Wellsy's absence hurt us in the past 2 seasons. The thing in our favor is that we have a young pool of quality apprentices (Turner, Brown, Garner, LMac, Dumont, Wood, Daw, BMac), to which we can add Anderson, and their improvement will be the main factor in determining whether the transition in the coming years will see us drop down or continue playing finals footy. The planning wheels seem to be in motion, but we can see how unpredictable the free agency/trading game is, so there are no certainties but I reckon we are well placed for the future.

Adversity breeds opportunity.

Grima and Hansen go down, we have Petrie, Waite and Brown up forward, we push Tarrant back to FB. Someone written off as a forward with concrete hands and no use to the club now has opposition recruiters say he could fetch $700k+ as a full back. Had Grima and Hansen not been hurt, would we have taken the plunge? You need to have the vacancy to try people out.

It was only when Ziebell and Swallow went down that we really pushed Greenwood with a different structure, that saw Cunnington rise to one of the best inside mids going around. We lost Greenwood because he realised he was more than a VFL player, but once the safe option was there again, we pushed Ziebell and Swallow back into the middle and crippled Cunnington's opportunity. We quite often play 3 players who have the effectiveness of 2, when one plays a good game at least one of the others has a poor game, we rob Peter to pay Paul. It isn't a good structure and we do not have the cajones to address it.

Based on talent, Wells and Harvey are the only ones who deserve to be still playing at their age.

42 goals out of Petrie from 24 games is pretty pedestrian, we should expect that from Hansen if we sat him in the goal square. Even when Black was shit playing with a bung shoulder and shanking most of his kicks he still managed 26 goals and kicked 33 the year before. We would get more out of Ziebell as a permanent forward. The opportunities just do not exist at present for us to be bold.
We have opted for safe. Waite is safely better than Black, Dal Santo was safely better than Bastinac. Were will we be after 2016 when the talent they were marginally better than are gone, will create a hole for us. We haven't pushed out players by others who will be around long-term.

 

[giantroo]

FIVE YEARS FOR DIXON
Port Adelaide football manager Chris Davies has confirmed to 5AA Charlie Dixon has signed a five-year contract.

 

[giantroo]

Charlie Dixon will play for Port Adelaide in 2016, after Richmond stepped in to help Power and Suns reach a deal for the key forward.

The three-way trade may help the Tigers move on Carlton's Chris Yarran, with less than two days of trading to go.

However it is understood the Blues have already expressed a reluctance to accept 19 for their speedy utility, a stance that may change in the next day.

Under the Dixon deal, Port Adelaide will receive the key forward and the Suns' third round pick, 49.

The Suns will receive pick 10 from Port Adelaide, pick 31 from the Tigers and future second round selections from both clubs.

Richmond will gain pick 19, effectively swapping two second-round picks for one first round selection.

The deal began to gain ground on Tuesday, once it became clear Richmond would not be moving defender David Astbury for Brisbane for either the Lions' pick 17 or 21.

The Suns will now look to work a trade for West Coast midfielder Matt Rosa.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/tradin...t-adelaide-20151020-gkduj3.html#ixzz3p5MWUsPa
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

 

[giantroo]

We must target one of those picks.

 

[Flawed Genius]

No progress on Basti/Aish due to Treloar deal

 

[giantroo]

 

[Royal Flush]

Search in Google + open incogito worked for me. Here you go:

NORTH Melbourne is in an interesting position given the age of most of its key players and the fact it has played in the last two preliminary finals but haven’t progressed further.

It’s the obvious call but I’ve got to make it anyway — the Kangaroos need to win the premiership either this year or next.

But is the list good enough? I’m not sure.

There are 17 players on the list who are turning 28 or over in 2016 and seven players — Brent Harvey, Nick Dal Santo, Michael Firrito, Drew Petrie, Scott Thompson, Daniel Wells and Jarrad Waite — who are 30 or older.

All of them are critical players in Brad Scott’s flag push.

To me, the immediate issue for North Melbourne is that three of those 30 or older players are starting 18 key position defenders and two are starting 18 key position forwards. That is the biggest problem.


Ben Brown is developing OK as a third tall but the concern is soon he will get the first or second defender and after that, there aren’t many others given Aaron Black looks like he might be on the move.

Robbie Tarrant has emerged as a very good defender and his decision to re-sign was absolutely critical, probably more critical to North Melbourne’s chances of a premiership and its future endeavours than people realise.

Drew Petrie and Jarrad Waite are a good forward combination but both players are in the twilight of their careers. Picture: Michael Klein



Sam Durdin is one who can play forward or back but he still, in my opinion, has a lot more developing and learning about the game to do in terms of involving himself and competing harder. I still think he’s a fair way off. Daniel Nielson is 194cm but only had his first season this year and is untried and Joel Tippett has been given his chances.

A decision needs to be made in list management as to whether they head to the trade table or free agency in the next year or so to replace these guys or do they go to the draft? If it’s the latter then that puts a lot of pressure on in terms of ladder position and whether they stay competitive.

Trading for key position players, as we’ve seen in this trade period with Jake Carlisle and Charlie Dixon, is expensive in terms of draft picks and salary cap. Have the Roos got the space to go to free agency or trade and do a bit of a Hawthorn in that sense to fill the holes?

The ruck is also an area that needs to be addressed despite how amazing Todd Goldstein has been in the last couple of years. He rarely misses a game but what happens if he suffers a bad injury? Daniel Currie has been traded, American Eric Wallace has been delisted, Braydon Preuss is probably a mile off being able to compete at AFL level and Brown is a back-up and we don’t know what’s happening with Majak Daw.

North Melbourne is also not a very skilled kicking side — they don’t have many players who have speed and endurance and who kick it well, so that’s another area that needs addressing.

Shaun Atley has pace but can be a bit erratic with his ball use, Daniel Wells is the outside class but is always injured. The addition of Jed Anderson will help because he is aggressive, has pace and uses it well but they still have too many of the same type.

Forward Aaron Black could be on the move. Picture: Wayne Ludbey



I think of guys like Ben Cunnington, Ben Jacobs, Trent Dumont, Sam Gibson, Taylor Garner, Kieran Harper, Luke McDonald, Brad McKenzie — they’re all a similar type of player. While some might have good leg speed and others not, their ball use isn’t great. Ryan Bastinac also fits into that category but he might also be on the move.

Having class on the outside to finish off the hard work of grunt players like Andrew Swllow and Jack Ziebell — both who can kick goals as well — and Cunnington is why they missed Wells so much this year.

The acquisition of Jed Anderson was a good move but even more important is the whether to trade or keep Black decision. If they can get a first-round pick then you’d probably do the deal but he is so critical for the key position needs that I’d say try and convince him to stay and do all you can to keep him happy.

You can’t promise a guy 22 games but you try and win him over by saying we want to play you, we see there is a future for you here, we need the exact type of player you are but we just need you to improve in this area and this one. If you do that, you will get the opportunities here.

The best thing they could do is make it really clear for him and if Black needs some inspiration, he need not look further than Ryan Schoenmakers at Hawthorn.



WHAT THEY NEED


I’ve already mentioned the types the Kangaroos need earlier in the column because it’s so pertinent in how they shape up next year, where they are still in the premiership conversation.

Like all teams but it’s probably more critical in North Melbourne’s case, they also need a healthy list. Injuries to Goldstein, Petrie, Thompson, Waite and the Roos are in strife.

But what North Melbourne really needs is to make a decision: Continue to be competitive or start building for the future.



WHO’S UNDER THE PUMP


The Roos won’t make too many changes but there are some players who need to step up including Daw, who despite his off-field issues needs to step up on the field and be that guy who can step up in the ruck.

Aaron Mullett showed some good signs but went missing this year for one reason or another, Robbie Nahas was dropped for the semi-final and didn’t get back in for the preliminary final, Joel Tippett has been given his chances but can’t nail down a spot and Kieran Harper didn’t feature. If he doesn’t leave, Ryan Bastinac is also under the pump.

Majak Daw will be under the pump next year. Picture: Colleen Petch





WHO SHOULD GO


Leigh Adams and Nathan Grima have retired, Scott McMahon, Max Warren and Eric Wallace have been delisted and Daniel Currie has been traded so I don’t think there will be anything further from North Melbourne this season although I do have a big question mark on Daw because of his lack of consistency and effort. Tippett might soon run out of chances and I’m not sure about rookie Will Fordham.



CRYSTAL BALL


North Melbourne is interesting because if they don’t remain competitive it has an impact in a number of areas of the club, including membership. I think the mindset at the Roos usually is that they can’t just completely turn the list over and go for kids because they want to stay competitive but I think the time is coming, given they have 17 players 28 or older, that they need to invest in youth.

Really though, if North Melbourne is going to win a premiership it’s going to be in the next year or two but the problem with that is living for today is a problem for tomorrow. And tomorrow can come very quickly sometimes and really bite you.

If you trade your first pick out every year, we know that players brought in later in the draft aren’t always key players in premiership teams. So if North Melbourne do that, then the depth of players coming in to replace these older guys, the quality won’t be as good.

History says taking that approach doesn’t win you a premiership but rebuilding your list with good list management, planning, development of players you do bring in via the draft and then bringing in the right players to fill gaps does

I dont know why these sorts of articles make me worry.
We really need Dumont, BMac, LMac, Wood , Atley , Turner to stand up, even just three of those would be enough.!!

 

[Black2Blue]

Adversity breeds opportunity.

Grima and Hansen go down, we have Petrie, Waite and Brown up forward, we push Tarrant back to FB. Someone written off as a forward with concrete hands and no use to the club now has opposition recruiters say he could fetch $700k+ as a full back. Had Grima and Hansen not been hurt, would we have taken the plunge? You need to have the vacancy to try people out.

It was only when Ziebell and Swallow went down that we really pushed Greenwood with a different structure, that saw Cunnington rise to one of the best inside mids going around. We lost Greenwood because he realised he was more than a VFL player, but once the safe option was there again, we pushed Ziebell and Swallow back into the middle and crippled Cunnington's opportunity. We quite often play 3 players who have the effectiveness of 2, when one plays a good game at least one of the others has a poor game, we rob Peter to pay Paul. It isn't a good structure and we do not have the cajones to address it.

Based on talent, Wells and Harvey are the only ones who deserve to be still playing at their age.

42 goals out of Petrie from 24 games is pretty pedestrian, we should expect that from Hansen if we sat him in the goal square. Even when Black was shit playing with a bung shoulder and shanking most of his kicks he still managed 26 goals and kicked 33 the year before. We would get more out of Ziebell as a permanent forward. The opportunities just do not exist at present for us to be bold.
We have opted for safe. Waite is safely better than Black, Dal Santo was safely better than Bastinac. Were will we be after 2016 when the talent they were marginally better than are gone, will create a hole for us. We haven't pushed out players by others who will be around long-term.

As you suggest, footy aint no exact science. It's a fair call to say we have gone down the 'safe' path, but at the safe time we are seen as the free trade pioneers and the Waite pickup being a ricky punt. The one real benefit that I do see is that the team has clearly set the bar higher and the experience and quality of Waite and NDS have been part of that. The footy department have clearly taken a bold approach this trade period, which has yielded Anderson and, if not for the toothless black and white empire, might have brought us Treloar and/or Aish. Seeing players of the calibre of Greenwood, Basti, Black looking elsewhere because they aren't sure of getting regular game time, would tend to put some young players off heading to North, but I could see us being a popular destination if we continue being a top 4 proposition with positions opening up with retirements. At least, the bold trading approach is clear for all to see.

 

[Only Forwards]

So what do we do? Do we sit on Basti & Black and just hope at the last second of Trade week,
Melb say yes to Basti for 17# & Freo say yes to Black and do deal for pick 22#.

Brisbane have Pick 17.

 

[giantroo]

 

[Tas]

As you suggest, footy aint no exact science. It's a fair call to say we have gone down the 'safe' path, but at the safe time we are seen as the free trade pioneers and the Waite pickup being a ricky punt. The one real benefit that I do see is that the team has clearly set the bar higher and the experience and quality of Waite and NDS have been part of that. The footy department have clearly taken a bold approach this trade period, which has yielded Anderson and, if not for the toothless black and white empire, might have brought us Treloar and/or Aish. Seeing players of the calibre of Greenwood, Basti, Black looking elsewhere because they aren't sure of getting regular game time, would tend to put some young players off heading to North, but I could see us being a popular destination if we continue being a top 4 proposition with positions opening up with retirements. At least, the bold trading approach is clear for all to see.

At least Anderson has something we need, some x-factor not sure how quick he is but he is also hard at it and young. I can see why Aish, Treloar, etc want to go to Collingwood, if they have been fed as much bullshit as Howe was, then I can see why they want to go there. Buckley learnt from the best, Malthouse told Carlton they could push for a flag and even in his last year said he couldn't see them losing a game. When you are that delusional, it is pretty easy to con people who want to believe.

 

[marklovesbeer]

Brisbane have Pick 17.

Forget about Aish.
Trade Basti for 17 - Brisbane will do it - and trade picks up to #8 thus picking up a gun / best available.

 

[giantroo]

The Jake Carlisle deal looks close to completion. Carlisle would go to St Kilda for pick 5 and Craig Bird for Sydney in a complicated multi-club trade.

 

[G0ther00s]

We need to Treloar deal to linger out as long as possible, that is if you even care about getting Aish at this point, doesn't seem like he wants to be here, should we even want him?

 

[Mordecai]

Liam Sumner, Lachie Plowman, Jed Lamb and ruckman Andrew Phillips are all in the Blues' sights.


The mooted deal could be a four-for-one swap, with the Giants handing over a group of players in return for a late first-round or second-round draft pick from Carlton.

Paging Pykie. How do these GWS kids rate? Two former top 10 picks.

 

[FootySmartSimpson]

Just listening to Howe on Trade Radio and he confirms the general perspective people have of our club right now. He said he chose the Pies because they were younger and up and coming compared to the Roos.

We have some interesting choices to make on the main 22 next year balancing the age.

Should be fine. Fordham aiming for 10-15 games, Turner 22, Garner 22, Dumont 10-15 games, 2014 recruits possibly 5 games here and there. Pick a couple of decent kids in this years draft if no more trades are done and we will be fine. Media beat up on this issue is ridiculous.

 

[Roo Beauty]

roos_fanatic08 What type of player is Moore? Do we really need him?

 

[G0ther00s]

Rich ain't going anywhere, for you very very optimistic north fans I saw coming up with scenarios.