Bumped Irish Experiment over?

[MyManLynch]

Collingwood kicked off with Marty Clarke, then Kevin Dyas, Paul Cribbin & Caolan Mooney.
Marty started off well, plateaued, home sick, went home...returned but had fallen behind.
Dyas & Cribbin never looked like succeeding, where as Mooney showed some potential, yet couldn't take the next step.
Now we appear to have moved away from the Irish (Mooney was drafted 2011), no more Irish recruits for the past 4 drafts.
Where as we have moved towards taller basketball options...Shea McNamara, Ben Richmond, Mason Cox & this year Darrean Wyatt.
We have 3 Cat B list places avail every year, however rarely use them all. The only time we used all 3 was when we had the NSW scholarship players.
Have we given up on the Irish? Is it too much time, effort & hard work for little return?
Do they take up too much of our development coaches time?
Are we still looking?

 

[35Daicos]

Collingwood kicked off with Marty Clarke, then Kevin Dyas, Paul Cribbin & Caolan Mooney.
Marty started off well, plateaued, home sick, went home...returned but had fallen behind.
Dyas & Cribbin never looked like succeeding, where as Mooney showed some potential, yet couldn't take the next step.
Now we appear to have moved away from the Irish (Mooney was drafted 2011), no more Irish recruits for the past 4 drafts.
Where as we have moved towards taller basketball options...Shea McNamara, Ben Richmond, Mason Cox & this year Darrean Wyatt.
We have 3 Cat B list places avail every year, however rarely use them all. The only time we used all 3 was when we had the NSW scholarship players.
Have we given up on the Irish? Is it too much time, effort & hard work for little return?
Do they take up too much of our development coaches time?
Are we still looking?

I really hope we are still looking, but it seems quite likely that we have lost interest, which (if true) would be a real shame. Getting hold of a talented 19 year old Gaelic Footballer from Ireland, as opposed to a 23 year old basketballer from America, seems so much more likely to work out well for us. I really like that there are 3 Category B Rookie List spots available to clubs, and actually find it very disappointing if even one is not filled. Though many of the players that could be taken would be longshots, it basically costs nothing to add them to the list, and I would like us to have a full complement of Cat B Rookies every year.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

The American system over the Irish system makes sense.

America has a larger population to choose from. They have an incredibly sport-centric culture. High school and college sport is highly competitive. They have produced many athletically gifted athletes.

 

[jc37]

We have certainly not lost interest as we were hot for Connor McKenna who decided to join Essendon last year and played two games. Its a pity we didnt get him as he has potential as a small forward. I think the club with the resources available to it and given we are going to win the flag in 16, 17, 18, 19,20,21 and not have good draft picks means we are going to have to look outside Australia for talent so we can keep our record premiership winning run going.

 

[35Daicos]

The American system over the Irish system makes sense.

America has a larger population to choose from. They have an incredibly sport-centric culture. High school and college sport is highly competitive. They have produced many athletically gifted athletes.

Yes, but we're never likely to get hold of those gifted athletes from America until they're about 23 or so, even then they'll only come here as a last resort when they haven't made it in one of their sports. Clearly, no American kids are growing up dreaming of making it big in Australian sports, Irish kids are likely to think differently. Trying to teach an American who was brought up on basketball, baseball or whatever how to play our game, as opposed to getting an Irishman who has played a roughly similar game to ours and can be converted so much quicker, would have to be so much harder.

It's obviously easier getting athletes from Ireland to come here at a younger age, giving them a far better chance of adapting to our sport. Getting them to stay here seems to be another story!

 

[motr]

Collingwood kicked off with Marty Clarke, then Kevin Dyas, Paul Cribbin & Caolan Mooney.
Marty started off well, plateaued, home sick, went home...returned but had fallen behind.
Dyas & Cribbin never looked like succeeding, where as Mooney showed some potential, yet couldn't take the next step.
Now we appear to have moved away from the Irish (Mooney was drafted 2011), no more Irish recruits for the past 4 drafts.
Where as we have moved towards taller basketball options...Shea McNamara, Ben Richmond, Mason Cox & this year Darrean Wyatt.
We have 3 Cat B list places avail every year, however rarely use them all. The only time we used all 3 was when we had the NSW scholarship players.
Have we given up on the Irish? Is it too much time, effort & hard work for little return?
Do they take up too much of our development coaches time?
Are we still looking?

My first reaction was no. But it does seem like we've shifted our focus to basketball. I guess with the football department tax, it's not quite the free hit it used to be.

 

[1892]

Dyas never really got going after tearing his hamstring off the bone.

In terms of recruiting Irish kids I hope we're still looking and not limiting ourselves to talls. Keeffe was a tall local Queensland cat b in the middle of our Irish experiment, so the mix of tall and mid has been there previously.

 

[spartan-magpie]

The Aussies from the American system, ala Darrean, is the best way to go. Can't wait till we start telling multi talented youngsters to skip playing junior elite footy and go to college and play b ball in the states so we can get them in as cat b recruits. We should take full advantage of this and exploit the system.

 

[Dynamics]

Given that we were apparently into McKenna, perhaps it's more that we just haven't been all that taken by any of the other kids coming through the Irish system lately? Hopefully that's the case as you'd be silly to just give up on any recruitment avenue altogether.

We need athletic talls so the US college system is still worth a try. Mason Cox looks like he could be a contributor.

 

[left at home]

l still hope they are looking at the Irish, in fact any one from around the world who have the talent
to play our great game and as cat b players that is out side the salary cap it will make more sense
to go that way in the future

 

[Daunt]

We are trying to clone a 7ft pendles
:drool:

 

[loki04]

The American system over the Irish system makes sense.

America has a larger population to choose from. They have an incredibly sport-centric culture. High school and college sport is highly competitive. They have produced many athletically gifted athletes.

Pitty they are only looking at blokes 200cm +, wasting some extremely gifted athletes in the 185 - 200cm range they generally have more co-ordination as well.

 

[Justlokan]

maybe we haven't stopped looking - perhaps it's simply because our assessment is that the talent isn't there.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Mooney was really hyped up when he came to Collingwood

Those in the know were saying he was the GAJ of the GAA or some such (it might not have been GAJ, but if it wasn't it was some other equally highly credentialed player)

Round 18, 2012 versus GWS at GWS.

Auspicious game that one.

It was the game that Pendles coached onfield planted the seed of recruiting a young Adam Treloar.

It was the game Cameron Wood achieved a new and exciting level of spuddom. A young and green and clearly inexperienced team of GWS kiddies ran around Wood like he was wearing a witch's hat on his head (or was it a dunce's cap?). It was one of the last games Wood would ever play in the black and white stripes.

And it was the game a young Caolan Mooney was buzzing around the forward line like a blue arsed blowfly. Tackled like the Valkyries of doom he did. But when he had the ball in hand, my god, he had all the game sense of a delftware teapot.

At one stage we were streaming towards goal, Mooney received a pass on the wing ... And he froze like a cute fluffy white bunny rabbit named "mopsey" in the headlights - and he was duly tacked from behind by a GWS player named Elma Fudd who couldn't believe his luck. Happened a couple time during that game IIRC.

Another time Mooney received the ball 30 meters from goal, directly in front, but facing the wrong way. Mooney danced and ducked and weaved forward 10 meters (away from goals) around a couple of GWS players ...

... It truly was a thing of beauty ...

... But then he failed to notice a flock of 30 Magpie players (at least) who were around him and open and facing goal ...

... And he snapped a shot on goal around his body like he was Brendan Fevola. Except he missed. By a long way. Said flock of 30 Magpie players (at least) were all looking around at each other with an expression of "WTF was that all about???"

That was Mooney's first season and he was coming from a long long way back. He was fast, yes. He could tackle, yes. He could receive a ball in the goal square and duly kick it through, yes. But as a small forward in a team who are ambitious - he got nowhere near displacing Jarryd Blair or Alex Fasolo.

Over to Kappa to tell the other side of the story ...

 

[TradeDraft]

Hine be looking at Irish Talent but we either not Intrested or lost in chasing there Signature

 

[jmac70]

Seems we now prefer to recruit enormous American athletes who can jump higher and run faster than just about anyone over malnourished Irish drunks. Can't really argue with that.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Collingwood kicked off with Marty Clarke, then Kevin Dyas, Paul Cribbin & Caolan Mooney.
Marty started off well, plateaued, home sick, went home...returned but had fallen behind.
Dyas & Cribbin never looked like succeeding, where as Mooney showed some potential, yet couldn't take the next step.
Now we appear to have moved away from the Irish (Mooney was drafted 2011), no more Irish recruits for the past 4 drafts.
Where as we have moved towards taller basketball options...Shea McNamara, Ben Richmond, Mason Cox & this year Darrean Wyatt.
We have 3 Cat B list places avail every year, however rarely use them all. The only time we used all 3 was when we had the NSW scholarship players.
Have we given up on the Irish? Is it too much time, effort & hard work for little return?
Do they take up too much of our development coaches time?
Are we still looking?

Maybe you're better off looking at the actual qualities of the players listed.

The irish guys all smalls - anywhere from forward line to backline. Although talented, and you might find a gem, they dont really add anything to an already deep recruiting pool of similar players. Why gamble/invest all that time in an Irish small, when you can pretty much find the same thing here? Now its worth doing if you identify a specific talent, or there are other factors that make it less of a risk, then sure chase someone.

The americans/basketballers are all completely different players. They are athletic, tall rucks or forwards. The recruiting pool of AFL players with similar qualities is very thin.
Only being able to get older guys (who have finished the college system), and getting guys who play a completely unrelated sport are both massive downsides, but you balance that with the specific type of attribute you are chasing.

 

[MyManLynch]

We have certainly not lost interest as we were hot for Connor McKenna who decided to join Essendon last year and played two games. Its a pity we didnt get him as he has potential as a small forward. I think the club with the resources available to it and given we are going to win the flag in 16, 17, 18, 19,20,21 and not have good draft picks means we are going to have to look outside Australia for talent so we can keep our record premiership winning run going.

Good point re McKenna, I did read at the time that we were one of the clubs on his list (or he was on our list).
The name itself should have delivered him to us. Put number 6 on his back...alas he chose Essendon...only an Irishman would do that.
We must be pretty choosy if we considered McKenna but nobody else has measured up over the past 4 years.
Or the Irish don't want to come to Collingwood? Did one of our guys poison the well back in Ireland?
It just seems odd. We were 100% go go go, then suddenly nothing for 4 years.

 

[The_Anvil]

I don't think we've seen the last of it. When you look at it, the Irish are recruited for mainly one position only (half-back). Now look at our current list and you'll see we have a plethora of small defenders. Not much sense in recruiting yet another Irishman when all he's going to do is sit in the magoos for 2/3 years, get sunburned, then bugger off back home.

What most would agree on is that our team needs key position players. That's why we're seeing more US imports specifically. I'd say in a few years when our backs get to their peak, you'll see us possibly bring in another Irishman to develop.

 

[Markfs]

It's a shame that they have to be Irish... its unfortunate that the closest game to our own is an Irish game. If it was another country where the people were a little smarter, the experiment might have worked...

 

[ottoman]

Mooney may not have had a long career but what he did achieve was truly amazing.
After playing a career total of 7 games of football in the seconds he got promoted to the senior side.
Just seven games!!!! His lifes total. Oh and a couple of NAB challenge games. How the hell does someone come into a sport. Have a couple of goes at it and then play at the highest level. It was a very impressive achievement.

 

[Kappa]

Mooney was really hyped up when he came to Collingwood

Those in the know were saying he was the GAJ of the GAA or some such (it might not have been GAJ, but if it wasn't it was some other equally highly credentialed player)

Round 18, 2012 versus GWS at GWS.

Auspicious game that one.

It was the game that Pendles coached onfield planted the seed of recruiting a young Adam Treloar.

It was the game Cameron Wood achieved a new and exciting level of spuddom. A young and green and clearly inexperienced team of GWS kiddies ran around Wood like he was wearing a witch's hat on his head (or was it a dunce's cap?). It was one of the last games Wood would ever play in the black and white stripes.

And it was the game a young Caolan Mooney was buzzing around the forward line like a blue arsed blowfly. Tackled like the Valkyries of doom he did. But when he had the ball in hand, my god, he had all the game sense of a delftware teapot.

At one stage we were streaming towards goal, Mooney received a pass on the wing ... And he froze like a cute fluffy white bunny rabbit named "mopsey" in the headlights - and he was duly tacked from behind by a GWS player named Elma Fudd who couldn't believe his luck. Happened a couple time during that game IIRC.

Another time Mooney received the ball 30 meters from goal, directly in front, but facing the wrong way. Mooney danced and ducked and weaved forward 10 meters (away from goals) around a couple of GWS players ...

... It truly was a thing of beauty ...

... But then he failed to notice a flock of 30 Magpie players (at least) who were around him and open and facing goal ...

... And he snapped a shot on goal around his body like he was Brendan Fevola. Except he missed. By a long way. Said flock of 30 Magpie players (at least) were all looking around at each other with an expression of "WTF was that all about???"

That was Mooney's first season and he was coming from a long long way back. He was fast, yes. He could tackle, yes. He could receive a ball in the goal square and duly kick it through, yes. But as a small forward in a team who are ambitious - he got nowhere near displacing Jarryd Blair or Alex Fasolo.

Over to Kappa to tell the other side of the story ...

Mooney's achievements were underrated on this board.

Was our leading goal scorer in the VFL when we left him up there, getting a small bag nearly every week.

Then we spent a year developing him in the midfield and defence where his influence was okay, then just as he started to settle in the forward line again he got home sick. It's a real shame because he would of been best 22 down the track.

 

[TradeDraft]

Mooney may not have had a long career but what he did achieve was truly amazing.
After playing a career total of 7 games of football in the seconds he got promoted to the senior side.
Just seven games!!!! His lifes total. Oh and a couple of NAB challenge games. How the hell does someone come into a sport. Have a couple of goes at it and then play at the highest level. It was a very impressive achievement.

Good Start but did not Improve on That

 

[MyManLynch]

Good Start but did not Improve on That

Another season & he may have broken out, who knows.
He was obviously home sick & can be an instant hero at his club back home.

 

[MyManLynch]

The more I think about this...the more I think that when recruiting Irish players, try & bring in 2 at once (normally always room in Cat B).
This may help them settle in faster, not get lonely or as homesick.
Working training hard together, assisting one another etc
Collingwood Mission for 2016...find 2 talented Irishman, 1 small/medium with pace/ball skills & 1 tall, solid with good hands, to develop into KPP.
Problem solved.