Certified Legendary Thread Sympathy for *essendon - congratulations on '16 Wooden Spoon (RIP The Scales)

[utility]

James Hird Articles
James Hird interviews

all I can think it that it will all be "probably lies"

Yeah but he's of the Costanza breed!

 

[RobZombie]

Reckon Hird is going to go nuclear on Sunday. With nothing to lose anymore he will lob hand grenades everywhere. He's on the ABC, no commercial obligations. Will be very interesting viewing.

I wonder how far he can push the non-disparagement clauses in various settlements and what the consequences might be of going over the edge?

Speaking of which ...

Throughout this it's been pretty clear that "up to the edge but not over" was one of the explicit aims of the PED program. Hird knew it, the admin knew it, the players used that sort of wording in their testimony up to and including the WADA appeal.

WTF did they think that meant if they stopped for even a minute to think about it?

Exploiting loopholes in the code?
Using substances chemically and pharmacologically similar to PEDs but not on the banned list (and not tested properly)?
Using stuff in dosages beyond what was well understood and clinically indicated?
Using combinations of drugs that somebody hoped would have an effect beyond that of the individual drugs?
If they didn't think any of these things, then what did they think?

$DEITY. if someone said to me they were going to pump me full of stuff that was pushing the boundaries of legality, ...

 

[utility]

Still waiting for the announcement of the Hird and Evans pharma IPO! Great way to get rich guys!

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

How would bringing doping controls under AFL control make things better?

There have been major problems with the MBL and NFL doping control so to cite them as examples is rather poor.

Everyone gets their right whack, Rodriguez, Sosa etc all got banned, removed from hall of fames, publically ridiculed and disgraced.

And it doesn't hijack a competition for what will be close to 5 years.

Test positive - do your time.

Don't test positive - move on.

**** being dictated to by a bunch of overseas lawyers in a foreign country that harboured Nazis and stole, housed and profitted from an entire peoples misfortune.

I would prefer things to be dealt with by Australians in Australia.

They won 11 of their first 15 games (including 8 wins and a 1 point loss in their first 9 games) in what was easily their most sustained run of form in well over a decade. Dean Robinson was the toast of the league at the time. The only reason they didn't go on with it was because of the unexpected soft tissue injuries that resulted from the drugs that ended up taking out half of their team.

Ah yes, and miss out on the lols of them being smashed by 140 in a final.

Never.

They can't even cheat properly.

 

[Blue Warrior]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Delusion at it's scariest!

 

[IdiotBox]

What *albert should have written:

I'm really sorry for this whole mess. I'm sorry I tried to exploit loopholes and bend rules to try and get an edge over other clubs and that the consequences of that was that there was enough evidence for the CAS to be comfortably satisfied that 34 players at the club where I was coached took banned substances.

I'm sorry to all footy fans that the reputation of this sport is up there with weightlifting and cycling now and that all other players' reputations from the other 17 clubs have been besmirched through the constant inference that they were doing something similar but just did not get caught. I'm sorry that the game has taken a substantial financial hit and the media attention has been diverted from the many great on-field achievements over the last 3 years.

I'm sorry to the AFL who have had to pour a lot of time and resources into dealing with this that could have been better spent building the game at grassroots level or spreading its appeal throughout the country and the world. I'm sorry to the employees at ASADA and WADA who have had to deal with the brinkmanship and bitter rage from the club and its supporters whilst they were just trying to do their job, which is ensuring a level playing field for all competitors. I'm sorry to people within the club and AFL who I've blamed in the past for my own failings. I'm also sorry to the players who I coaxed into getting all these jabs because in the past a similar approach around injections has given me a ripping tan and spring in my step.

I will do 'whatever it takes' to restore my reputation in the game through conducting thousands of footy clinics and goal umpiring at hundreds of Buchan v. Swifts Ck ressies matches in sub-zero temperatures. I am truly sorry.

Love *albert.

What he actually wrote:

I'm sorry David Evans wanted me to win at all costs but we couldn't hire someone who might have obeyed the rules and anyway the Cats players were all on the juice (how else could they be so good) so Bomber and Macca thought it'd be ok for Weapon and Danksy to work their mojo at the club as we were puny weaklings by comparison. Those blokes didn't report to me (trapped in the Matrix) and when they started doing what I wanted them to do and kept me informed via SMS, e-mails etc. so what would I know? I sent a couple of e-mails saying keep it above board, that's good enough don't you think? I told Danksy to make sure Doc Reid knew what was happening, but the bits the Doc would be ok with, footy clubs aren't the UN you know. Anyway blah, blah, blah, it's not my fault and it's not me, it's you who are wrong.

James A. Hird - ANZAC Day and Brownlow Medallist and 2 x premiership player

Is that you Titus?

 

[LuvtheKangas]

That's fine and I respect your decision. I support the NMFC, not the AFL, but believe that sports should govern themselves. For better or worse.

We are an indigenous sport played by a few states in a country that is removed from the outside world.

They didn't win the flag, they didn't even win a ******* final, it was by and large not performance enhancing per se, so as such, people (not my brethren on this board as it is their right to differ in opinion and form their own outrage if they wish) should just let it go.

The 2014 elimination result was so wonderful, the manner in which we broke them that I actually just don't care anymore. This is whole thing has stuffed the sport that I love and I just want it over so we can all move on (laugh at them of course) but yeah, that's just how I feel.

Taking this view, anyone can attempt to cheat, but if they're incompetent at it, then everyone else should just let it go.

This misses the point that it was their objective to beat us and 16 other teams by illegal means. If they succeeded in their cheating objective and won the 2012 flag, you would have joined the chorus of supporters (not just us) screaming blue murder.

Cheating is all about intent. The fact that they were shit at cheating doesn't change their cheating intent and the actions taken under this intent. They tried to cheat the rest of the competition and for that they have finally copped their whack. It shouldn't have taken so long and cost so much, but that is all on them because part of their cheating regime was to deny it all at every opportunity.

 

[toepoker]

Kudos to Alec Epis for his opinion & his use of the word "drongos"

 

[JD-Roo]

Kudos to Alec Epis for his opinion & his use of the word "drongos"

My recollection is he was never short of an opinion ON the ground either!!

 

[Jay-Z]

The Hird article beautifully summed up by a Cricket Journo

 

[Horace]

He is narcissistic with some slight psychopathic traits. None of this is surprising.

Does this sound like anyone we (unfortunately) know?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

 

[blackshadow]

James Hird Articles
James Hird interviews

all I can think it that it will all be "probably lies"

Ain't no probably about it.

 

[blackshadow]

Everyone gets their right whack, Rodriguez, Sosa etc all got banned, removed from hall of fames, publically ridiculed and disgraced.

And it doesn't hijack a competition for what will be close to 5 years.

Test positive - do your time.

Don't test positive - move on.

**** being dictated to by a bunch of overseas lawyers in a foreign country that harboured Nazis and stole, housed and profitted from an entire peoples misfortune.

I would prefer things to be dealt with by Australians in Australia.

I have some major issues with the bolded above.

Who gives a flying fundamental if dopers are outed and a team penalised by having players banned? The competition will continue and those not doping will be playing on a more level playing field.

Anyone with half a brain who dopes will not test positive due to a variety of factors, using drugs where tests aren't developed or using drugs that remain in the body for such a short period of time that they can only be tested within hours of being administered.

And quite frankly Australians are a long way behind best practice when it comes to sports administration - your comment is parochial at best but most probably racist.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

If they succeeded in their cheating objective and won the 2012 flag, you would have joined the chorus of supporters (not just us) screaming blue murder.

Cheating is all about intent. The fact that they were shit at cheating doesn't change their cheating intent and the actions taken under this intent.

Of course I would have been, but they didn't cheat us, Hamish missed and we lost.

Cheating is about obtaining an unfair advantage.

They cheated and went nowhere.

Ben Johnson is a cheat.
Jobs Watson is not.

I couldn't give a shit about their intent, I deal in actuality.

Anyway, I'm out, we are different people who live different lives. If the ban had been immediate, I would have loved it, but 3 years later is unjust, whether they intended to cheat or not, their performances over the last few years have been a cautionary tale against cheating for the entire competition. And that for me is enough.

Who gives a flying fundamental if dopers are outed and a team penalised by having players banned? The competition will continue and those not doping will be playing on a more level playing field.

My point was the entire competition has suffered, we have suffered.

If you can't see that, then so be it, but this my only concern.

As for the racist remarks, please mate. We are in Australia, the sport is only played here professionally and should be governed by Australians. Not some two bit operation who couldn't organise a root in a brothel.

 

[Horace]

You won't find anything... I have stayed out of this thread until the final decision was made. Its not my thing.

My hatred is historically based, not because of this drugs crap.



That's fine and I respect your decision. I support the NMFC, not the AFL, but believe that sports should govern themselves. For better or worse.

We are an indigenous sport played by a few states in a country that is removed from the outside world.

They didn't win the flag, they didn't even win a ******* final, it was by and large not performance enhancing per se, so as such, people (not my brethren on this board as it is their right to differ in opinion and form their own outrage if they wish) should just let it go.

The 2014 elimination result was so wonderful, the manner in which we broke them that I actually just don't care anymore. This is whole thing has stuffed the sport that I love and I just want it over so we can all move on (laugh at them of course) but yeah, that's just how I feel.

Sorry Arjen but I can't agree with your view of this.

I suspect that some of our Australian teams might have faced bans from competing in global sporting events such as the Olympics, had *essendon got away with this. Rightly or wrongly (and I subscribe to the rightly camp) Australian sport will and is judged by its attitude to doping in its home grown sporting competitions. If we are soft on drugs at home then we lose the credibility to be tough on drugs on the international stage.

In my opinion, if the AFL opts to remove itself from the WADA Code and elects instead to conduct its own doping regime, then our much loved indigenous sport will be forever diminished. Opting out of the WADA Code in my opinion implies that a softer stance will be tolerated and indeed had that been the case before this *essendon situation the *peptide pushers would have got away with it.

I would doubt that too many of us would agree that some Cycling body should have alone been responsible for judging Lance Armstrong.

I've listened to Dave Culbert on many occasions and he is just as tough in his stance on drugs in every sport. Might I add he is just as entitled to air his views on doping in AFL football as any of us. He is just fortunate enough to be able to air them through the media. But he is not alone and there are others also who are unhappy with the CAS decision and are and will air them through the media.

 

[IschenkoUBeauty]

Delusion at it's scariest!

Nobody belip Hirdy

 

[IschenkoUBeauty]

Of course I would have been, but they didn't cheat us, Hamish missed and we lost.

Cheating is about obtaining an unfair advantage.

They cheated and went nowhere.

Ben Johnson is a cheat.
Jobs Watson is not.

I couldn't give a shit about their intent, I deal in actuality.

Anyway, I'm out, we are different people who live different lives. If the ban had been immediate, I would have loved it, but 3 years later is unjust, whether they intended to cheat or not, their performances over the last few years have been a cautionary tale against cheating for the entire competition. And that for me is enough.

So going by your last point, Lance Armstrong shouldn't have had his titles stripped because it was 'years later and unjust' ?

 

[Caracas]

It's hard to imagine now but, if the players accept their medicine and get on with it, this time next year the Bombers will likely have as many or more members as Hawthorn. Next year's Anzac match will break the crowd record. This thread will be a faint and amusing memory. I'm not sure whether that will be a good thing or a bad thing but, nine times out of ten, that's how these things pan out.

 

[TooUglyForFugly]

It's hard to imagine now but, if the players accept their medicine and get on with it, this time next year the Bombers will likely have as many or more members as Hawthorn. Next year's Anzac match will break the crowd record. This thread will be a faint and amusing memory. I'm not sure whether that will be a good thing or a bad thing but, nine times out of ten, that's how these things pan out.

Yeah no ...

Would never happen.

 

[Only Forwards]

Of course I would have been, but they didn't cheat us, Hamish missed and we lost.

Cheating is about obtaining an unfair advantage.

They cheated and went nowhere.

Ben Johnson is a cheat.
Jobs Watson is not.

I couldn't give a shit about their intent, I deal in actuality.

Anyway, I'm out, we are different people who live different lives. If the ban had been immediate, I would have loved it, but 3 years later is unjust, whether they intended to cheat or not, their performances over the last few years have been a cautionary tale against cheating for the entire competition. And that for me is enough.

Cheating is about the persuit of obtaining unfair advantadge. Cheating and losing is just delicious schadenfreude for those of us in the cheap seats.

IN 2012 this club and the players within it entered a program of systematic doping in order to obtain advantadge. Jobe Watson Won the best and fairest after partaking in a regime of PEDs I would suggest he obtained some advantage there.

The fact that it took so long to find them guilty is only commentary on how insular the sport actually is.

I don't really care about the loss so much but it is also worth noting that after our second game against the scum we were investigated by the AFL after Hansen clashed heads with one of their juice monkeys. We were fined after being found to have "no case to answer".

Had Nathan Lovett Murray had not been a reciepent of PEDs designed to creat bigger muscles, perhaps he doesn't hit as hard, perhaps Lachie doesn't get concussed, perhaps we are not then on the receiving end of being investgated by hte AFL and fined for having no case to answer" with multiple media Articles calling into question our medical department, which is completely laughable when you compare that we were investigated in 2012 and what was happening at our competitors.

 

[muttley45]

VFL Rd 1, April 9, Werribee v *essendon should get us off to flyer, and i notice we only get 3 televised games for the year.

 

[Only Forwards]

It's hard to imagine now but, if the players accept their medicine and get on with it, this time next year the Bombers will likely have as many or more members as Hawthorn. Next year's Anzac match will break the crowd record. This thread will be a faint and amusing memory. I'm not sure whether that will be a good thing or a bad thing but, nine times out of ten, that's how these things pan out.

Add to this the likelihood that they will also have close enough to pick 1 in the draft.

 

[Jay-Z]

VFL Rd 1, April 9, Werribee v *essendon should get us off to flyer, and i notice we only get 3 televised games for the year.

Are they gonna have enough players to Field a VFL and an afl side? [emoji14]

 

[JD-Roo]

Had Nathan Lovett Murray had not been a reciepent of PEDs designed to creat bigger muscles, perhaps he doesn't hit as hard, perhaps Lachie doesn't get concussed, perhaps we are not then on the receiving end of being investgated by hte AFL and fined for having no case to answer" with multiple media Articles calling into question our medical department, which is completely laughable when you compare that we were investigated in 2012 and what was happening at our competitors.

Fully agree.

Perhaps none of them hit as quite hard, tackle quite as hard, run quite as far, kick quite as long as they all did.

It's often said in footy circles that a team only needs to be "off" by a few percent in any week and any team can win. Well what if a certain team is actually "on" for a few percent more than they should be for a number of weeks running?

That few percent allows them to run further than they should have, therefore get to the ball more than they should have, possibly picking up more Brownlow votes than they should have, kicking higher record scores than they should have and winning a greater percentage of close games than they should have...... all stemming from the group collectively being a just few percent more able to play, run, recover more than they should have.

Add that up over half a season (before their bodies couldn't cope anymore) and the collective difference is quite remarkable. This means results, scores, games records and finals positions are affected...... all from that few percent each week.

It doesn't take MUCH difference to MAKE a difference.

 

[muttley45]

Are they gonna have enough players to Field a VFL and an afl side? [emoji14]

Not sure, but i do know Werribee will be fielding a pretty nice side this year