Autopsy Negatives and Positive v Carlton

[Quinz]

There was that big chunk of football in the middle of 2006 where we were not playing good football, but still coming away with wins. That was a huge strength of that side. We almost never blew teams away, but we were never out of a game either.

From round 10 to round 16 we had the 54 point comeback against Geelong, the 44 point comeback against Carlton(!) at home, loss to Port, loss to the Bulldogs, two good but close wins against Hawthorn and Sydney, and then a loss to Collingwood by 37 points.

It's a patch we could have easily gone 0-7 but ended up 4-3.

And then the Adelaide game the week after, which for me was the moment we looked like a premiership team. We went handball crazy and took apart an Adelaide team who were looking unbeatable at that stage. 82 point win. Adelaide at that stage were two games and 52% clear on top of the ladder. They were unbackable premiership favourites and not only did we beat them that day, but we beat them in an away preliminary final.

It's easy to think now that our 2006 team was this super team with the greatest midfield ever, but until we actually won the flag, there were serious, serious doubts on the ability of that forward line and John Worsfold as a coach, and plenty of times during the year it looked like we would get close but not get there. We lost our first final at home FFS.

 

[bkozican]

Positives...We got the 4 pts.
Negatives...We got the 4 pts...just...against Carlton

 

[SpaceClef]

There was that big chunk of football in the middle of 2006 where we were not playing good football, but still coming away with wins. That was a huge strength of that side. We almost never blew teams away, but we were never out of a game either.

From round 10 to round 16 we had the 54 point comeback against Geelong, the 44 point comeback against Carlton(!) at home, loss to Port, loss to the Bulldogs, two good but close wins against Hawthorn and Sydney, and then a loss to Collingwood by 37 points.

It's a patch we could have easily gone 0-7 but ended up 4-3.

And then the Adelaide game the week after, which for me was the moment we looked like a premiership team. We went handball crazy and took apart an Adelaide team who were looking unbeatable at that stage. 82 point win. Adelaide at that stage were two games and 52% clear on top of the ladder. They were unbackable premiership favourites and not only did we beat them that day, but we beat them in an away preliminary final.

It's easy to think now that our 2006 team was this super team with the greatest midfield ever, but until we actually won the flag, there were serious, serious doubts on the ability of that forward line and John Worsfold as a coach, and plenty of times during the year it looked like we would get close but not get there. We lost our first final at home FFS.

It's nuts that Adelaide was so dominant and didn't win a flag.

The mid-late 2000s loved dominant H&A sides - Adelaide, St Kilda, Geelong and Collingwood all looked completely unstoppable for huge periods of time. Hawthorn have never been so utterly dominant throughout the season but just keep getting the job done in finals

 

[Winky]

What skills does Masten have? the ability to constantly pass the ball onto the opposition's chest?

Don't know what games you've been watching but Masten's kicking is better than Priddis, Gaff, Shepherd, Redden, Duggan, Hutchings etc. The only elite kicks we have are Shuey, Wellingham, Hurn and Jetta.

 

[Winky]

Yeh, I agree with you that Vozzo is not the guy we want in that role, whilst he does have a bit of a footy background as far as I'm aware it was as a player and then as an agent, so not really involved in the tactical side of things and doesn't really have any experience in the coaches box. I've been a bit skeptical as to how good he's done as the list manager in the past as well, I think he was brought in more as a negotiator/contracts expert rather than as someone who can identify talent. Not sure on Tony Shaw, might be a struggle to get him over here? I think you're right though, someone who's coached in the past would be handy for Simmo to bounce ideas off and turn to for advise.

What? why in the world would anybody consider Tony Shaw? Failed coach and commentator...his "expert" comments are ridiculous and he would add nothing to WCE.

 

[wraglesweb]

What? why in the world would anybody consider Tony Shaw? Failed coach and commentator...his "expert" comments are ridiculous and he would add nothing to WCE.

And clearly Cousins is the man for the job

 

[Godfather32]

What? why in the world would anybody consider Tony Shaw? Failed coach and commentator...his "expert" comments are ridiculous and he would add nothing to WCE.

I didn't, I said I wasn't sure on Tony Shaw

 

[Chris_6678]

There was that big chunk of football in the middle of 2006 where we were not playing good football, but still coming away with wins. That was a huge strength of that side. We almost never blew teams away, but we were never out of a game either.

From round 10 to round 16 we had the 54 point comeback against Geelong, the 44 point comeback against Carlton(!) at home, loss to Port, loss to the Bulldogs, two good but close wins against Hawthorn and Sydney, and then a loss to Collingwood by 37 points.

It's a patch we could have easily gone 0-7 but ended up 4-3.

And then the Adelaide game the week after, which for me was the moment we looked like a premiership team. We went handball crazy and took apart an Adelaide team who were looking unbeatable at that stage. 82 point win. Adelaide at that stage were two games and 52% clear on top of the ladder. They were unbackable premiership favourites and not only did we beat them that day, but we beat them in an away preliminary final.

It's easy to think now that our 2006 team was this super team with the greatest midfield ever, but until we actually won the flag, there were serious, serious doubts on the ability of that forward line and John Worsfold as a coach, and plenty of times during the year it looked like we would get close but not get there. We lost our first final at home FFS.

You could even argue that during the 2002-2004 we were flat track bullies in that we could win well at home but always struggled away. People just look at the fact that at the end of 2006 we won a flag so all those previous years we were good.

 

[The Dodger]

Well in 2006 we were top of the ladder or there about and we could compete against the better teams in tough matches.
I think there would be doubts that you could win it. I mean apart from Hawthorn fans recently and perhaps Geelong in 2007 (we saw how 2008 went for them) I don't think anyones fans would consider the Premiership a monty.
But you get the inclination that your team is thereabouts and with a bit of luck...a good performance on the day etc you are right amongst it.

This team has failed most big challenges this year. Hawks away, Swans away, Cats away & Crows at home, and again its not that we lost its that we looked a clear rung below those teams.

Perhaps we just weren't ready early in the season for the challenge. Perhaps it was just 1 bad quarter against the Crows.

For the MCG in particular a win against an improving Collingwood would be a pretty important turnaround. And not even a win but a damn good showing. Playing good football that doesn't end with us having a 4-5 goal lead withered away in the final quarter or just getting thumped and not looking in it from the word go.

We look pretty bad at the MCG, Hawthorn will carve us up again if we continue that game plan of zoning off and allowing short kicks. Then when we have the ball kicking long to a contest. Ball retention is critical at that ground because of the space it has you get carved up back the other way by better ball users.

 

[The Dodger]

You could even argue that during the 2002-2004 we were flat track bullies in that we could win well at home but always struggled away. People just look at the fact that at the end of 2006 we won a flag so all those previous years we were good.

We also happened to flog Brisbane at the Gabba which no one else could do.

 

[swingdog]

We also happened to flog Brisbane at the Gabba which no one else could do.

And we can do that this year as well! It's a sign!

















....except for the "no one else could do" bit.

 

[paran]

I'd be more keen on approaching Bomber Thompson on the coaching director role.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Well in 2006 we were top of the ladder or there about and we could compete against the better teams in tough matches.
I think there would be doubts that you could win it. I mean apart from Hawthorn fans recently and perhaps Geelong in 2007 (we saw how 2008 went for them) I don't think anyones fans would consider the Premiership a monty.
But you get the inclination that your team is thereabouts and with a bit of luck...a good performance on the day etc you are right amongst it.

This team has failed most big challenges this year. Hawks away, Swans away, Cats away & Crows at home, and again its not that we lost its that we looked a clear rung below those teams.

Perhaps we just weren't ready early in the season for the challenge. Perhaps it was just 1 bad quarter against the Crows.

For the MCG in particular a win against an improving Collingwood would be a pretty important turnaround. And not even a win but a damn good showing. Playing good football that doesn't end with us having a 4-5 goal lead withered away in the final quarter or just getting thumped and not looking in it from the word go.

We look pretty bad at the MCG, Hawthorn will carve us up again if we continue that game plan of zoning off and allowing short kicks. Then when we have the ball kicking long to a contest. Ball retention is critical at that ground because of the space it has you get carved up back the other way by better ball users.

And we havent just failed, we've not even been in it mostly. The 2006 team had a midfield that dragged us over the line repeatedly in games, it was our forward line that was the concern in relation to the premiership. Now we have a decent forward line but our midfield is a serious question, and seeings as the game is mainly won and lost there, we arent really strong contenders in reality.

 

[The Dodger]

And we havent just failed, we've not even been in it mostly. The 2006 team had a midfield that dragged us over the line repeatedly in games, it was our forward line that was the concern in relation to the premiership. Now we have a decent forward line but our midfield is a serious question, and seeings as the game is mainly won and lost there, we arent really strong contenders in reality.

Yeah but we aren't that bad in relation to teams around us. Geelong have made some big blues. Sydney aren't invincible. Only the Crows, Hawks and to an extent an inform Bulldogs and yet Bulldogs in Perth I wouldn't mind.

The rest are up and down enough for a little bit of improvement from us to get over. The question is if that improvement will eventuate.

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Yeah but we aren't that bad in relation to teams around us. Geelong have made some big blues. Sydney aren't invincible. Only the Crows, Hawks and to an extent an inform Bulldogs and yet Bulldogs in Perth I wouldn't mind.

The rest are up and down enough for a little bit of improvement from us to get over. The question is if that improvement will eventuate.

I think we are. We're miles off Geelong, Hawks, Sydney, Bulldogs and Adelaide away from home, and considering we'd have to win the GF at the G, we're in trouble.

 

[paran]

I'd be more keen on approaching Bomber Thompson on the coaching director role.

Actually, wouldn't Dennis Pagan be the obvious option here?! Simmo's old coach, premiership coach, no threat to look for a senior role... either Pagan or Bomber would be good option.

 

[West Coast 06]

Remember old Cuzz09 and his repeated meltdowns how s**t we were in 06

Have Cuzz09 and ep2006 ever been seen in the same room?

No? I thought not.

 

[frenchconnection]

Spot on. Even in the 90's we did the same. In 94 we lost to Essendon at the G who went on to not even play finals. We golt absolutely belted by the Blues at Princes park, and had some superstar called Andrew Tranquilly kick 6 against us when we got belted by the Pies at the G (I'll never forget that game, I remember him wearing a long sleeved guernsey, and thinking, who the f** k is this guy. Went on to start a common trend of absolute one game wonders having massive games against us for the rest of eternity)

Remember in 06 when we lost to the Dogs at home, and then the next week were belted by Port at AAMI? I wasn't on BF back then but I can imagine the "Seaon over" comments were coming thick and fast. I would've been one of them had I been here

We've never really had a really dominant year when we won the flag, you just need a few things to go your way, and play well at the right time of year. We absolutely need a home final or 2 though, to even close to the GF.

If you look back at when we managed to play in both the 05/06 grand finals - 05 we had the easier run with 2 home finals and then lost the GF, but if memory serves me right had to do it the hard way in 06 with only the 1 home final, so it worked out better when we didn't have it too easy. Just saying!

 

[frenchconnection]

Actually, wouldn't Dennis Pagan be the obvious option here?! Simmo's old coach, premiership coach, no threat to look for a senior role... either Pagan or Bomber would be good option.

Can't see Bomber Thompson wanting to come to Perth?

 

[frenchconnection]

It's nuts that Adelaide was so dominant and didn't win a flag.

The mid-late 2000s loved dominant H&A sides - Adelaide, St Kilda, Geelong and Collingwood all looked completely unstoppable for huge periods of time. Hawthorn have never been so utterly dominant throughout the season but just keep getting the job done in finals

Think in those days we had the wood on Adelaide. Wish it was the same now?

 

[its_dave]

I dont think its all that bad but I do think the coach needs to be a bit more creative. This weekend - play an outside risk. Lambs definately not gonna get a game but who is this Adamson? (Correct spelling?) Its a skill to play new recruits into the team and check them out and I reckon this weekend is a perfect oppurtunity

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Just watched the end of the Carlton game again and Phillips/Kruser were the ones that set it up for them . Lycett was knackered and brown isn't a ruckman . They had some seriously good hit outs to advantage to cripps and Gibbs then gettingIit into their forward line quickly . Carlton won a lot of clearances due to good tap work at the end

We can't play brown as a forward/Ruck anymore it's just not working and putting to much pressure on lycett to shoulder all the load .

Just bring in Giles slot him into FF and rotate him at least 40% with lycett especially against gawn .

 

[Brer Bear]

What? why in the world would anybody consider Tony Shaw? Failed coach and commentator...his "expert" comments are ridiculous and he would add nothing to WCE.

I'll never forgive Shaw for this:



* him!

 

[Keys]

If you look back at when we managed to play in both the 05/06 grand finals - 05 we had the easier run with 2 home finals and then lost the GF, but if memory serves me right had to do it the hard way in 06 with only the 1 home final, so it worked out better when we didn't have it too easy. Just saying!

2005 - home qualifying final (won) then home prelim (won)

2006 - home qualifying (lost) then home semi (won v Bulldogs) then away prelim (won)

Both QFs were against Sydney
Both PFs were against Adelaide

 

[paran]

Can't see Bomber Thompson wanting to come to Perth?

'Cos the Eagles don't pay? All about the Melbas peeps!