List Mgmt. 2016 Draft, Trading and Free Agency Thread

[Mr Peabody]

He was delisted today but IMO we don't need him.

Only thing I can see about Black is that he's exploring his options like Zac Clarke per the article below.
If he's been delisted, has someone got a reference?

"- North Melbourne forward Aaron Black will explore his trade options this October, but remains open to serving out the final season of his existing deal with the Roos."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-08-30/dockers-ruckman-zac-clarke-weighing-up-a-fresh-start

 

[Superkoops]

Black, Cloke and Schultz amongst others have knocked us back and are all now hacks. The ship has sailed on each and we have dodged more bullets than Mr Anderson in the Matrix.

 

[Van_Dyke]

Have a feeling DannyTheDoorman may be thinking of Butcher. Apologies if I'm wrong, but no sources are running with Black being delisted, also would be early for Norf to be doing so as well.

 

[Sweetback]

If it is true that he kept the full extent of his hip injury a secret, only being fixed this year, then the club might be hurting from the waste

It'd be more of a waste if he's okay now and we've delisted him because he kept it secret. He seemed to be developing nicely until he was injured.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

I know you are really really keen on him. Have you seen him play live before Danny? I haven't seen him live since U18s, and I know a lot of the draft commentators haven't seen him live, so was hoping to hear from someone who had in recent weeks. Hopefully he'll play for SF in the League finals so we can watch him on the tv. Otherwise I may have to get down and watch him in the flesh. I was impressed with him at U18s but I'm still not sure where this grand rise to top 5 pick contender has come from?

I have seen Tim play live at the State U/18's this year at Domain when they played Victorian Country mid season Country were last year's titleholders. He is a tall slim guy with reasonably good skills and certainly matched it at that level with opposition talls. Yes he needs to bulk up and that is acknowledged but the heartening thing about him is the wrap Andrew Lockyer gave him on PR one Sunday morning. He indicated that Tim runs to the rights spots and he has been coached at Christ Church Grammar by Ryan Turnbull ex Eagles ruckman. Lockyer also acknowledged that he needed to bulk up.

The fact that he has been elevated by Souths to the League side is recognition of what he delivers. I am all for picking him as he is a WA boy and homesickness wont be an issue. Whilst Sandi is still with us Tim can learn heaps from the Big Fella whilst building his body. I don't subscribe to the view that we shouldn't waste a high pick on a ruckman as I don't believe we can find a good one as easy as that.

In that U/18 State game at Subi Strnadica from East Freo kicked some goals but he is a tall forward that also needs work on his body to add bulk. I would love to see English play in the finals and I will go and see him live at some stage as Souths are playing in all grades this week except this week as I am
watching Peel play. In fact I would love to catch up and sit with you and watch English live and other eligibles.

 

[wayToGo_]

I saw him make his League debut last Saturday, he played okay, took a good contested mark, has a nice kick but he looks fairly raw. By the third quarter he seemed to be struggling with a sore right leg, played in the forward line by the end cos he was limping a bit. My opinion is he would take 2-3 years to get his bulk and fitness up to scratch.
I was listening to Cal Twomey's 'Road to the Draft' podcast on the way home today and he surveyed 6 recruiters (anonymously) and 3 of them said they'd take McLuggage first, but one of them said the gutsy pick would be to pick English cos he could end up better than all of them. They mentioned he could end up as a Dean Cox-like mobile ruckman.
I would be okay with us taking English at 3, we'd need to be patient with him if we do though.

Yeah "gutsy pick" is exactly how I feel about him as well. I think he could become a gun but it's a massive risk because there is so much development to go. Talls, and especially rucks, you can't tell early on from what I have seen as it takes 2-3 years to develop them. I've said it before, if it were a Weitering or a Schache I'd spend pick 3 in an instant but I'd rather Freo played it safe to avoid getting reamed on trade radio if it doesn't work out.

Maybe I am biased but I would definitely rookie-list Mason Shaw, the only thing I've seen that let's him down when I've seen him is he occasionally fumbles when he goes for a contested mark. He's a decent kick and would be a good backup for the forward line.

Yeah I'm keen on looking at Shaw as well. I think he's probably the best of the bunch available (ie Cloke, Butcher, Shulz, Black, Cameron etc). There are a few guys over East that I'd have in the mix also (I need to research more still) but I'd be for us spending a later pick on a speculative KPF.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Have a feeling DannyTheDoorman may be thinking of Butcher. Apologies if I'm wrong, but no sources are running with Black being delisted, also would be early for Norf to be doing so as well.

Yes your right My Apologies It was Butcher (and you can put Schultz down as delisted as well as they aren't renewing his contract). I am not in favour of Black he might be from here but he cantget a game in the top side at North but I think he has a year to go on his contract but I stand corrected if that's not the case.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Walters is spending a heap of time in the midfield, Fyfe is a gun midfielder, it makes no sense to make him a forward... at least one and maybe both of Ballas and Mayne are gone.

We need experience from somewhere, maybe Ballas stays on and isn't traded?

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Yeah "gutsy pick" is exactly how I feel about him as well. I think he could become a gun but it's a massive risk because there is so much development to go. Talls, and especially rucks, you can't tell early on from what I have seen as it takes 2-3 years to develop them. I've said it before, if it were a Weitering or a Schache I'd spend pick 3 in an instant but I'd rather Freo played it safe to avoid getting reamed on trade radio if it doesn't work out.

Yeah I'm keen on looking at Shaw as well. I think he's probably the best of the bunch available (ie Cloke, Butcher, Shulz, Black, Cameron etc). There are a few guys over East that I'd have in the mix also (I need to research more still) but I'd be for us spending a later pick on a speculative KPF.

saw Mason Shaw play for Souths against Swans at Freo a couple of weeks ago. He doesn't have an AFL body for a guy who had 3 years at Port albeit with injuries. Yes go and have a look and I would be interested in your comments but he is a no for me. Why would we chase a Shaw in any event when we are into McCarthy and want Hogan and we have Apeness Taberner Yarren Walters Bennell and Fyfe and possibly Balic or Ubergang on a flank. Uber is a great set shot for goal from 45-50 metres and he has had his contract extended by a year already. Balic at U/8 National Champs level was selected in the All Australian team on a half forward flank.

Cameron by the way if we are talking the guy playing for Claremont there are reasons obviously why he hasn't been selected in 3 drafts I believe . Sam Collins had him in his pocket all game on Saturday at the Showground in the Peel versus Claremont game. Hannath beat him when he (Cameron) went into the Ruck.

 

[wayToGo_]

I have seen Tim play live at the State U/18's this year at Domain when they played Victorian Country mid season Country were last year's titleholders. He is a tall slim guy with reasonably good skills and certainly matched it at that level with opposition talls. Yes he needs to bulk up and that is acknowledged but the heartening thing about him is the wrap Andrew Lockyer gave him on PR one Sunday morning. He indicated that Tim runs to the rights spots and he has been coached at Christ Church Grammar by Ryan Turnbull ex Eagles ruckman. Lockyer also acknowledged that he needed to bulk up.

The fact that he has been elevated by Souths to the League side is recognition of what he delivers. I am all for picking him as he is a WA boy and homesickness wont be an issue. Whilst Sandi is still with us Tim can learn heaps from the Big Fella whilst building his body. I don't subscribe to the view that we shouldn't waste a high pick on a ruckman as I don't believe we can find a good one as easy as that.

In that U/18 State game at Subi Strnadica from East Freo kicked some goals but he is a tall forward that also needs work on his body to add bulk. I would love to see English play in the finals and I will go and see him live at some stage as Souths are playing in all grades this week except this week as I am
watching Peel play. In fact I would love to catch up and sit with you and watch English live and other eligibles.

Thanks Danny. I was at that game as well. In that game he was very good at positioning himself across half back to stop the opposition rebounding. He took a number of good intercept marks. I thought his disposal was ok for a big guy but Rotham was miles ahead of everyone on the field with his class kicking that day. A little frustrated that Tim didn't nominate for the draft last year because he certainly wouldn't have cost a top 10 pick then. But then again we may not have Tucker and Balic on our list if he did.

I'm still caught up using pick 3 on a speculative ruck prospect personally. And its the economics of it that's causing my mind to explode. Let's assume he's going to take 2-3 years to build the body, strength and skills to play as an AFL ruck. At the end of that 2-3 years (he could be out of contract at that time as well), he almost certainly won't be worth more than first round pick (at trade). Even many years later as one of the best rucks in the comp, it's unlikely he'll cost more than a single first rounder. Have any rucks ever been traded for more than a single first rounder?

Meanwhile on the other hand let's say McCluggage slides to #3. He's ready to play round 1 in a forward pocket/flank. By the time a young ruck from the same draft year is ready to play he's already racked up 2-3 years of AFL games experience. If he becomes the gun we expect he'll be worth more than a single first rounder he originally cost, most likely two (eg Jaeger who has been injured most of his career). So in 3-4 years we could have two first rounders in trade currency up our sleeves. So we could trade McCluggage out, trade English in, and still have a first rounder left over for someone else.

I like English, I just don't like the maths.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Minimum Contract Term for Certain Players
If a Club drafts a player who has not been drafted previously, the Club must offer that player a Contract of Service for a minimum of two AFL seasons. However, a player listed for the first time who is over the age of 23 years may be offered a single-year contract.

Thanks for the clarification obviously your quote is from the CBA.

 

[darkshines]

saw Mason Shaw play for Souths against Swans at Freo a couple of weeks ago. He doesn't have an AFL body for a guy who had 3 years at Port albeit with injuries. Yes go and have a look and I would be interested in your comments but he is a no for me. Why would we chase a Shaw in any event when we are into McCarthy and want Hogan and we have Apeness Taberner Yarren Walters Bennell and Fyfe and possibly Balic or Ubergang on a flank. Uber is a great set shot for goal from 45-50 metres and he has had his contract extended by a year already. Balic at U/8 National Champs level was selected in the All Australian team on a half forward flank.

Cameron by the way if we are talking the guy playing for Claremont there are reasons obviously why he hasn't been selected in 3 drafts I believe . Sam Collins had him in his pocket all game on Saturday at the Showground in the Peel versus Claremont game. Hannath beat him when he (Cameron) went into the Ruck.

What he said. Huge no to both.

 

[meima]

Yeah "gutsy pick" is exactly how I feel about him as well. I think he could become a gun but it's a massive risk because there is so much development to go. Talls, and especially rucks, you can't tell early on from what I have seen as it takes 2-3 years to develop them. I've said it before, if it were a Weitering or a Schache I'd spend pick 3 in an instant but I'd rather Freo played it safe to avoid getting reamed on trade radio if it doesn't work out.

Yeah I'm keen on looking at Shaw as well. I think he's probably the best of the bunch available (ie Cloke, Butcher, Shulz, Black, Cameron etc). There are a few guys over East that I'd have in the mix also (I need to research more still) but I'd be for us spending a later pick on a speculative KPF.

My pick is still trial uebergang and smith in nab cup. Mason shaw and cameron at best rookie pick. I dont mind freo risk the last draft pick on subi h.shepheard but i doubt he want to come to freo after been delisted by the same team. Then again under Ross he might be a different player.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Wat?

Nah I had a Seniors moment and I had the wrong guy it was Butcher that was delisted. My Apologies

 

[wayToGo_]

saw Mason Shaw play for Souths against Swans at Freo a couple of weeks ago. He doesn't have an AFL body for a guy who had 3 years at Port albeit with injuries. Yes go and have a look and I would be interested in your comments but he is a no for me. Why would we chase a Shaw in any event when we are into McCarthy and want Hogan and we have Apeness Taberner Yarren Walters Bennell and Fyfe and possibly Balic or Ubergang on a flank. Uber is a great set shot for goal from 45-50 metres and he has had his contract extended by a year already. Balic at U/8 National Champs level was selected in the All Australian team on a half forward flank.

Cameron by the way if we are talking the guy playing for Claremont there are reasons obviously why he hasn't been selected in 3 drafts I believe . Sam Collins had him in his pocket all game on Saturday at the Showground in the Peel versus Claremont game. Hannath beat him when he (Cameron) went into the Ruck.

Definite no to Cameron from me as well. And also no to Cloke, Shulz, Black and probably to all of the other delists we'll see over the next few weeks. I suspect I'll probably agree with you re Shaw as well but will take a closer look at the next opportunity I get (I've only seen a few highlights this year - he did kick an amazing goal a couple of weeks back iirc - I was only thinking a possible rookie pick). At this moment my preference is that (we ignore the "delists") and we use a later pick on a speculative KPF from the draft. Even if we keep Smith we need more stocks and given some decent midfield/flanker depth I can see us loading up on speculative talls with our later/rookie picks. At least I hope we do. There are always diamonds in the rough, especially with talls that take a few years to develop but you need to play the numbers so we need to draft a few.

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Definite no to Cameron from me as well. And also no to Cloke, Shulz, Black and probably to all of the other delists we'll see over the next few weeks. I suspect I'll probably agree with you re Shaw as well but will take a closer look at the next opportunity I get (I've only seen a few highlights this year - he did kick an amazing goal a couple of weeks back iirc - I was only thinking a possible rookie pick). At this moment my preference is that (we ignore the "delists") and we use a later pick on a speculative KPF from the draft. Even if we keep Smith we need more stocks and given some decent midfield/flanker depth I can see us loading up on speculative talls with our later/rookie picks. At least I hope we do. There are always diamonds in the rough, especially with talls that take a few years to develop but you need to play the numbers so we need to draft a few.

I was never a fan of Tanner Smith but he has improved a lot this year since going forward and he is a trier who works hard with whatever skills he has. I would like to see him retained on the main list initially as depth.

 

[Grape Bear]

I was never a fan of Tanner Smith but he has improved a lot this year since going forward and he is a trier who works hard with whatever skills he has. I would like to see him retained on the main list initially as depth.

I'd love to give Tanner a go, as it looks like the penny has dropped for him, but if that's a repeat hamstring, it's not looking good for future injuries.

 

[Lazza040]

I suspect there won't be many players delisted in the next fortnight , as much we want in the forum to get rid of some , trade wise they maybe of some worth to another team. But I do think we need a good clean out of the fringe players! Do hope we get some trade steals!

 

[mightymouse75]

Rookie list . Along with the peel guy that used to play for carlton but exposed himself .

 

[Superkoops]

I'd love to give Tanner a go, as it looks like the penny has dropped for him, but if that's a repeat hamstring, it's not looking good for future injuries.

I'd have Tanner ahead of shaw as well but his repeat hamstring injuries are a concern. They are from the same draft.

 

[Freomaniac]

I'd have Tanner ahead of shaw as well but his repeat hamstring injuries are a concern. They are from the same draft.

Ironice when you said that. I still remember that 2012 draft.

Hoping that mason shaw was going to hold out to our 2nd pick only for port to get him


Then when our 2nd rounder was called we got smith

 

[DannyTheDoorman]

Rookie list . Along with the peel guy that used to play for carlton but exposed himself .

You mean Bootsma who when he kicks out from Fullback for Peel gets the ball out about 60-70 metres from the goal line.

 

[Ysaye]

I really doubt we will see any recycled players this year because there is a lot of depth of talent in this year's WA draftees and there are enough mixes of sizes across the board - IMO the following all will be drafted in the main or rookie draft:
English (Tall)
SPS (Small)
Rotham (Medium)
Waterman (Medium)
Fisher (Small)
Bolton (Small)
Zahaar (Medium)
Logue (Tall)
Narkle (Small)
Goddard (Tall)
--- (Possibly Rookies)
Guelfi (Small)
Hura (Medium)
Miller (Tall)
Strnadica (Tall)
Ryan (Small)
Banfield (Small)

 

[heavho]

Saints apparently interested in Clarke. Straight swap for weller ?. Hills and wellers

 

[Wizard]

Saints apparently interested in Clarke. Straight swap for weller ?. Hills and wellers

He's a FA.