List Mgmt. 2016 Free Agency/Trades/Draft thread Part 2

[GROTTO]

It's confusing, but the whole bidding system is confusing.

The upshot is academy teams won't have many picks greater than 29 to upgrade, and won't have many opportunities to upgrade and push back 29.

Obviously father/son is another consideration.

I'm just not a fan of the academy teams and rules around father/son selection.

FFS AFL keep it simple.

All this has done is compromised the draft IMO.

Pick 5 as an example should allow you to pick the 5th best player in the country, bar father/son.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Wont it depend on who you're looking at in the draft.
If your main target at 11 is going to be there at 15, you wouldnt be dumb to swap.

If is the key word there. Anyway, I'm sure both clubs will come to a reasonable deal.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

First of all, McKenzie is junk. Chances of him reaching 50 AFL games are dwindling by the second. He is your version of Mitch Grigg, right down to his left boot being his one and only weapon. Not AFL standard. He'd likely be delisted if you didn't have so many retirees and Aaron Black / Nahas freeing up so many spots.

Durdin is a question mark. Maybe he'll develop into a nice player, maybe he won't. We didn't want him on draft day despite him being a local lad, and we took Lever instead. Don't think we're even close to changing our minds on that one, and we have no need for Durdin now with the emergence of Lever, Hartigan and very promising youngsters such as Keath and Doedee waiting in the wings for our defence. He's certainly not required up forward either.

Lyons will be top 12 in our B&F this year, well above the likes of Mackay, Thompson, Cameron and probably even Brodie Smith. Where will McKenzie come in yours?

Ben Jacobs at Port never approached a season of the standard Lyons has just put up. Lyons is worth a pick in the early to mid 20s, and even then I'll be gutted to lose him.

Who knows, maybe Dumont is looking to come back to SA and it'll be a straight swap. I quite like Dumont, but its a case of better the devil you know there. Would rather keep Lyons.

Dumont won't be traded after a good season, is swallow's long term replacement.

 

[Bacon8]

The system is different, but it's the same people doing the voting. Historically there's a strong correlation between the results in both competitions.

I thought the AFLCA was done by the head coaches, whereas our B&F was done by our coaches.

Let's have look at one random game in 2015:
Essendon v Adelaide
10 Patrick Dangerfield (Adel)
5 Eddie Betts (Adel)
4 Tom Lynch (Adel)
4 Rory Sloane (Adel)
4 Brodie Smith (Adel)
2 Sam Jacobs (Adel)
1 Rory Laird (Adel)

Round 20 v Essendon
Dangerfield 24, Betts 23, Sloane 22, Laird 20, Jacobs 19, Lynch 19, Talia 18, Smith 13, Cameron 10, Jenkins 10, Brown 8, Walker 7, M. Crouch 6, Lyons 6, van Berlo 6, Atkins 5, Thompson 4, Hartigan 3, Knight 3

Not far off, but the B&F votes rated Laird better than Smith.

Or another:

Collingwood v Adelaide
10 Brodie Smith (Adel)
8 Rory Sloane (Adel)
4 Daniel Talia (Adel)
3 Patrick Dangerfield (Adel)
3 Sam Jacobs (Adel)
1 Ricky Henderson (Adel)
1 Scott Pendlebury (Coll)

Round 2 v Collingwood
Smith 25, Jacobs 20, Sloane 20, Talia 20, Dangerfield 16, Douglas 16, Brown 14, Laird 14, Jaensch 13, Lynch 13, Betts 12, Cheney 11, Henderson 11, van Berlo 11, Ellis-Yolmen 10, Walker 10, Cameron 9, Mackay 4, Hartigan 3, Jenkins 1


Hendo got 1 AFLCA vote for 5th best, was 13th in the B&F votes.

The best are usually the best, but the also-rans can differ greatly.

 

[Vhaluus]

Is Milera junk?

Milera is in his first year, played senior games and has shown good form in the SANFL.

He's young and developing and hopefully will take a step with another preseason under him.

 

[huludicidal]

Is Milera junk?

No, he's already shown some real promise at AFL level and is still a teenager. Not sure what the correlation is there between him and McKenzie to be honest. We both know McKenzie is probably out of the AFL in 24 months.

 

[whattagun07]

Off topic, how is Eric Mackenzie being talked up as a trade option!?
I haven't watched a lot of Eagles footy this year, but isn't he one of the best full backs in the comp? And I could have sworn he was their vice captain

 

[huludicidal]

Dumont won't be traded after a good season, is swallow's long term replacement.

We'd say the same about Lyons being Thommo's replacement. Sometimes logic goes out the window at footy clubs.

 

[gothecrows]

The system is different, but it's the same people doing the voting. Historically there's a strong correlation between the results in both competitions.

Of course there will be a correlation, but not necessarily strong.
Laird was 7th in the AFLCA voting last year (of Adelaide players), but 2nd in the B&F.
Thompson was 2nd in the AFLCA voting, but 7th in the B&F
Sloane was 3rd in the AFLCA voting, but 6th in the B&F
Talia was 12th in the AFLCA voting, but 8th in the B&F. He also was about 8th or 9th in the AFLCA voting in 2014, when he won the B&F

It's quite possible for players to poll differently in the two awards. The AFLCA award is more about outstanding individual games, rather than performing your role just "well".

 

[Tyls83]

Off topic, how is Eric Mackenzie being talked up as a trade option!?
I haven't watched a lot of Eagles footy this year, but isn't he one of the best full backs in the comp? And I could have sworn he was their vice captain

McGovern seems to have taken his spot. Has struggled coming back from injury.

 

[huludicidal]

That's a big call, given how poorly he polled in the AFLCA voting this year.

Of the players you named...
Thompson - 22 votes (8th)
Smith - 18 votes (10th)
Cameron - 11 votes (12th)
Lyons - 1 vote (equal 20th)
Mackay - 0 votes

Rankings are where they finished on Adelaide's ladder - not the competition overall. AFLCA voting is relevant because it's decided by the same people who do the B&F votes - the coaches.

It's safe to say that the Pyke in particular doesn't share BigFooty's love for Lyons, and don't rate him anywhere near as highly as many posters here on BigFooty. By extension, it's highly likely that the assistant coaches will have a similar view.

I would be very, very surprised if Lyons finishes in the top-12 in the B&F this year. He will almost certainly finish ahead of Mackay, but it's highly unlikely that he'll poll more votes than Thompson, Smith or Cameron.

The fact that the coach (possibly coaches) doesn't rate him very highly is probably a good part of the reason why the contract he's been offered is (allegedly) so low, and why the club would (allegedly) be willing to trade him if given the option.

Mate, if the the B&F was a 5-4-3-2-1 voting system he wouldn't finish top 12. But it's not. The number of times Lyons was in our best 10 this season will well and truly show up on B&F night.

Saying the coaches don't rate him is just ****ing drivel as usual.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Getting rid of Lyons is a mistake particularly for a player like Rockliff. I like Rocky but Lyons this year has been better than him and he does not provide the quick moving elusive mid fielder we need to complement our other players. We need a young Daniel Wells type to mix up our midfield. I honestly hope JL stays but it is apparent that Pykey or others feel we have too much of the same type of player and need a better mix in there.

If it was me I would ask Thommo to retire and try and extricate a Devon Smith from GWS. Just the type of player we need. I would keep JL. He has been one of the best players at hitting targets going forward we have this year in our mids.

Sometimes the grass is greener on the other side.

I do not know on what planet Lyons has been better than Rockliff this year. Lyons has been good (I'm in no way criticising him) but he is not in the same class as Rockliff. You need to take your crows coloured glasses off.

 

[bmac84]

That's a big call, given how poorly he polled in the AFLCA voting this year.

Of the players you named...
Thompson - 22 votes (8th)
Smith - 18 votes (10th)
Cameron - 11 votes (12th)
Lyons - 1 vote (equal 20th)
Mackay - 0 votes

Rankings are where they finished on Adelaide's ladder - not the competition overall. AFLCA voting is relevant because it's decided by the same people who do the B&F votes - the coaches.

It's safe to say that the Pyke in particular doesn't share BigFooty's love for Lyons, and don't rate him anywhere near as highly as many posters here on BigFooty. By extension, it's highly likely that the assistant coaches will have a similar view.

I would be very, very surprised if Lyons finishes in the top-12 in the B&F this year. He will almost certainly finish ahead of Mackay, but it's highly unlikely that he'll poll more votes than Thompson, Smith or Cameron.

The fact that the coach (possibly coaches) doesn't rate him very highly is probably a good part of the reason why the contract he's been offered is (allegedly) so low, and why the club would (allegedly) be willing to trade him if given the option.

Much of a muchness but Lyons actually had 4 votes (15th)

http://www.afc.com.au/news/2016-08-30/sloane-second-in-aflca-award

 

[dylan123]

Sounds like North are regretting their Greenwood call from two years ago. He was on their list for years, had a break out season and asked for a significant pay rise, they balked and he went to Collingwood. Sounds familiar eh?

Greenwood really hasn't done anything at Collingwood to make North regret not giving him the cash he was after.

 

[big78sam]

I have never posted a trade rumour in 8 or 9 years of bigfooty but heard this so thought I'd post it. I cannot confirm the veracity of this.

The story is that a deal was agreed in principle yesterday for a 1st rounder plus either a 2nd rounder (traded or next year's I guess) or a player for Rockliff.

Comes from a footy journo who belongs to an organization that is a tier below the news limited/Fairfax journos. He wouldn't reveal his source so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[gothecrows]

Off topic, how is Eric Mackenzie being talked up as a trade option!?
I haven't watched a lot of Eagles footy this year, but isn't he one of the best full backs in the comp? And I could have sworn he was their vice captain

They played better without him this season, and their defence was better without him.

In games he played, they were 8-5, with the wins being against the teams that finished:
17th, 16th, 13th, 12th, 9th, 10th, 15th, 11th (and all bar one being at Domain)

They conceded an average of 76.5 points against in games he played, and 76 points against in games he didn't play (with more games being away, and generally tougher opposition).

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Sounds like North are regretting their Greenwood call from two years ago. He was on their list for years, had a break out season and asked for a significant pay rise, they balked and he went to Collingwood. Sounds familiar eh?

Not at all, he hasn't improved at Collingwood and he wanted more midfield time that we weren't willing to give him. He admitted he left for security and midfield time, not $$$.

Anyway, back to Lyons, how about our 2017 second rounder given it'll probably be better pick's wise than 29.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

We'd say the same about Lyons being Thommo's replacement. Sometimes logic goes out the window at footy clubs.

True, but if you want an extra second rounder, by selling Lyons, to be part of a Rockliff trade, I would do it.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing what Lyons would do for our midfield with Dumont, Cunnington, Clarke, Anderson and Ziebell.

Best of luck with your trading.

 

[Vader]

I thought the AFLCA was done by the head coaches, whereas our B&F was done by our coaches.

They are.. AFLCA is voted on by our head coach, and the opposition's head coach. The B&F is voted on by our head coach, and our assistant coaches.

There is a common factor there - our head coach. It's a reasonably safe assumption that the assistant coaches voting won't vary greatly from the head coach's. You might see one coach handing out a 4, while the others give a 3, but you're not going to see a huge variation.

Let's have look at one random game in 2015:
Essendon v Adelaide
10 Patrick Dangerfield (Adel)
5 Eddie Betts (Adel)
4 Tom Lynch (Adel)
4 Rory Sloane (Adel)
4 Brodie Smith (Adel)
2 Sam Jacobs (Adel)
1 Rory Laird (Adel)

Round 20 v Essendon
Dangerfield 24, Betts 23, Sloane 22, Laird 20, Jacobs 19, Lynch 19, Talia 18, Smith 13, Cameron 10, Jenkins 10, Brown 8, Walker 7, M. Crouch 6, Lyons 6, van Berlo 6, Atkins 5, Thompson 4, Hartigan 3, Knight 3

Not far off, but the B&F votes rated Laird better than Smith.

Or another:

Collingwood v Adelaide
10 Brodie Smith (Adel)
8 Rory Sloane (Adel)
4 Daniel Talia (Adel)
3 Patrick Dangerfield (Adel)
3 Sam Jacobs (Adel)
1 Ricky Henderson (Adel)
1 Scott Pendlebury (Coll)

Round 2 v Collingwood
Smith 25, Jacobs 20, Sloane 20, Talia 20, Dangerfield 16, Douglas 16, Brown 14, Laird 14, Jaensch 13, Lynch 13, Betts 12, Cheney 11, Henderson 11, van Berlo 11, Ellis-Yolmen 10, Walker 10, Cameron 9, Mackay 4, Hartigan 3, Jenkins 1


Hendo got 1 AFLCA vote for 5th best, was 13th in the B&F votes.

The best are usually the best, but the also-rans can differ greatly.

As I said.. it's a strong correlation. It's not perfect. There are exceptions, but they're relatively rare. It's not perfect, but it's a very good guide to what we can expect to see in the B&F voting.

 

[Vader]

Much of a muchness but Lyons actually had 4 votes (15th)

http://www.afc.com.au/news/2016-08-30/sloane-second-in-aflca-award

Think I've found my error.. He received 3 votes against Collingwood. I must have missed these when I was doing the weekly updates.

 

[Crouch#44]

I have never posted a trade rumour in 8 or 9 years of bigfooty but heard this so thought I'd post it. I cannot confirm the veracity of this.

The story is that a deal was agreed in principle yesterday for a 1st rounder plus either a 2nd rounder (traded or next year's I guess) or a player for Rockliff.

Comes from a footy journo who belongs to an organization that is a tier below the news limited/Fairfax journos. He wouldn't reveal his source so take it with a grain of salt.

CEY & our 1st

 

[Red mist]

Greenwood really hasn't done anything at Collingwood to make North regret not giving him the cash he was after.

Copped a long term injury as soon as he got there as well.

 

[creme_fraiche]

Off topic, how is Eric Mackenzie being talked up as a trade option!?
I haven't watched a lot of Eagles footy this year, but isn't he one of the best full backs in the comp? And I could have sworn he was their vice captain

Has struggled post knee and the Eagles backline was actually functioning better without him. I'd take him but I'd wager he'll stay in Perth one way or another, Freo are going hard for him.

 

[Bacon8]

As I said.. it's a strong correlation. It's not perfect. There are exceptions, but they're relatively rare. It's not perfect, but it's a very good guide to what we can expect to see in the B&F voting.

The B&F Top 5 at AFC last year came 1st, 8th, 5th, 6th & 4th in the AFLCA.

The AFLCA votes had Thommo as our 2nd best - came 7th in the B&F.

Mackay was 11th in the AFLCA leaderboard for us, yet soundly beaten by many in the B&F.

CC was 10th in the B&F, 13th on AFLCA with 6 votes. If Lyons came 15th in AFLCA, he could be top 12 in the B&F - AFLCA doesn't count Finals either, and Lyons was close to BOG last week.


My favourite that I found:

10 CARLTON V ADELAIDE
9 – Josh Jenkins (Adel)
9 – Marc Murphy (Carl)
4 – Rory Laird (Adel)
3 – Scott Thompson (Adel)
2 – Patrick Cripps (Carl)
2 – Kade Simpson (Carl)
1 – Zach Tuohy (Carl)

Round 10 v Carlton
Jenkins 24, Laird 20, Dangerfield 14, Lynch 12, Brown 10, Jacobs 10, Hartigan 6, Smith 5, van Berlo 4, Wright 4, Thompson 3, Grigg 2, Sloane 1

 

[cammo6556]

CEY & our 1st

Guessing or intel?