Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part II [NEW POLL ADDED]

[Partridge]

Okay, so when does he start taking responsibility for the constant finals failure since 2011? 2013, 2014, 2016? Nothing to do with him, is it?

You forgot the awesome 2012 finals campaign.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

So, you say that Scott inherited a champion team. Again, giving him no credit.

He won us the 2011 flag, because, when Geelong were behind in the second quarter of the 2011 GF, Cloke was running rampant, and we lost Pods, we were behind. Yet, Scott moved Lonergan to Cloke, shutting him down completely, and put Bartel as a second key forward to replace Pods, and Bartel went onto kick three crucial goals and win the Norm Smith Medal. Scott outcoached Malthouse, who didn't even move Reid off Hawkins all day.

These moves won us the GF. Chris Scott, not Mark Thompson, made these moves. So, therefore Chris Scott helped guide us to the 2011 flag.

If you don't credit when he wins us a flag, then I don't think you can then blame him when we don't, since either the coach plays a part, or he doesn't. Can't have it both ways.

Not totally to do with him.

 

[GTOA]

But our losses aren't totally to do with him, either.

Both the players and the coach play a part in success or failure.

 

[Ray Donovan]

I am deeply concerned with the direction of the playing list and youth player development under Chris Scott after we won the 2011 flag. All coaches are judged by wins and losses come September. Since the 2011 GF, we have won 2 finals (2013 finals victory against Port Power and the nail biter against the Hawks at the MCG). Damien Hardwick has not won a final since 2010 and he is under more scrutiny and pressure whilst @AFL360 do not put the pressure on Chris Scott. The media treat Chris Scott like a king and he can sell ice to the eskimoes. He is a just a Willy Loman!

Since 2012, we have turned over so many draftees via trades and delistings and most of our draftees who have reached 70 to 140 games have not graduated from 3.5 status to 5 star status. This is an alarming statistic whilst other AFL clubs (@westernbulldogs @GWSGIANTS @HawthornFC @stkildafc @melbournefc) have recruited the best assistant teaching coaches to support the head coach. You don't have to be a 10 year old to realise that Melbourne and Bulldogs have improved over 2 years due to the appointments of Brendan McCartney at Melbourne and Joel Corey at the Western Bulldogs. These clubs realise that at the end of the day, you can draft the best young talent, but teaching the youngsters and players who have 30 to 100 games under their belts via the right teaching methods is so crucial to develop the quality of depth within an AFL side. These clubs have copied the Bomber Thompson Geelong model of training up youngsters.

The appointment of Matthew Scarlett, Corey Enright and Simon Lloyd have been positive moves at Geelong. At least Matthew Scarlett will impart the Bomber Thompson teaching methods and since his FT appointment, our backline has improved since 2012.

But, the continual practice of appointing mates to the coaching staff does not bring objectivity and promotes a YES man culture. How on earth could Geelong appoint Matthew Knights to the coaching panel with Shane O'Bree???

Why has not Geelong appointed David Wheadon on a part time basis to oversee decision making acquisition skill and ball movement development? Or, why has not Geelong thrown the kitchen sink and offered Brendan McCartney a role at Geelong? He is doing wonders at Melbourne.

At the end of the day, Chris Scott inherited a Mercedez Benz at the end of 2010 and he had to tweak it. He basically inherited all of Bomber Thompson's hard work. After 2012, he has dismantled Bomber's good work and flushed all of Bomber's good work in developing and promoting youngsters; giving them a chance and teaching them the importance of winning CONTESTED ball and making good decisions during a game down the toilet.

Finally, Geelong should have demanded more for Josh Caddy going to Richmond and Nathan Vardy going to the Eagles. Geelong spent time and money in developing these players. Geelong should have bargained hard for Richmond's early draft picks and played hard ball with them. With Vardy, they should have done the same. Geelong needed early draft picks this year and giving away Vardy for a late pick is an insult. They have a chance to be superstars for their new clubs and it just shows that Chris Scott cannot develop youngsters into a Corey Enright or James Bartel. If a club hires a dud assistant coach in Matthew Knights and former Brisbane Lions teammates as Assistant coaches, it makes you wonder why we did not win the 2016 flag!

We did the right thing at the end of 2016 and recruited Dangerfield, Scott Selwood, Lachie Henderson and Zac Smith. BUT, Scott's continual failure in developing the B graders into A grade champions is a major concern whilst the Bulldogs, Giants, Hawks and Saints are streets ahead of us in terms of developing B graders into A graders.

Agreed and someone needs to become accountable for giving away a first round pick for lachie henderson and zach 2e. Tom mitchell went for (14) this season albiet between quality clubs who generate and train better players than other clubs on a consistent basis. And i am looking in chris scotts direction losing neale balme has also hurt geelong he had an eye for talent and was great at the trade table.

Caddy was contracted for another 2-3 seasons the deal should of been let go or swapped for the deliedio first rounder with g.w.s. or no deal.

2e deal no thanks zac and carlton please take a pick (35) or no deal. Thurlow can play the role just fine thankyou.

Kersten and vardy we really could not do too much with uncontracted players but if the idiot whom cannot strategically move the ball in the forward half properly chris scott. Would not play kersten and insists of playing a forward line of talls consisting of
Hawkins
Stanley ( tried to play forward at st kilda)
Zac Smith ( pinch hitter )
And throws lachie henderson forward in the last 2 rounds of the season after coming off a knee injurie after playing predominantly at half back then swings taylor forward as his only move he was out best forward. And wonders why we have no cohesion in our forward line playing a squad without a CHF in a prelim final. Now that would be fine if your game plan was structurally sound and predictable to players which we dont have.

So kersten leaves because he has no trust in the coach as one of our most talented young forwards that he will get a game. Now we draft aaron black please !

I just hate thinking about the future geelong in days past have always kept an eye on development and the future. Seems the clear vision has been lost in time and i love the club i am biased and it hurts watching steve johnson run around for other clubs instead of replacing him with young picks. We are stretching our salary cap for B grade talent and morgaging our future at the same time.

The success template is relatively clear draft well hopefully find a star or two. Have reliable veterans with great leadership and coaching ability to being them through as fast as possible. Mix that group with a free agent or two and we have a list that maybe challenges for a flag or at very least remains competitive.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Agreed and someone needs to become accountable for giving away a first round pick for lachie henderson and zach 2e. Tom mitchell went for (14) this season albiet between quality clubs who generate and train better players than other clubs on a consistent basis. And i am looking in chris scotts direction losing neale balme has also hurt geelong he had an eye for talent and was great at the trade table.

Caddy was contracted for another 2-3 seasons the deal should of been let go or swapped for the deliedio first rounder with g.w.s. or no deal.

2e deal no thanks zac and carlton please take a pick (35) or no deal. Thurlow can play the role just fine thankyou.

Kersten and vardy we really could not do too much with uncontracted players but if the idiot whom cannot strategically move the ball in the forward half properly chris scott. Would not play kersten and insists of playing a forward line of talls consisting of
Hawkins
Stanley ( tried to play forward at st kilda)
Zac Smith ( pinch hitter )
And throws lachie henderson forward in the last 2 rounds of the season after coming off a knee injurie after playing predominantly at half back then swings taylor forward as his only move he was out best forward. And wonders why we have no cohesion in our forward line playing a squad without a CHF in a prelim final. Now that would be fine if your game plan was structurally sound and predictable to players which we dont have.

So kersten leaves because he has no trust in the coach as one of our most talented young forwards that he will get a game. Now we draft aaron black please !

I just hate thinking about the future geelong in days past have always kept an eye on development and the future. Seems the clear vision has been lost in time and i love the club i am biased and it hurts watching steve johnson run around for other clubs instead of replacing him with young picks. We are stretching our salary cap for B grade talent and morgaging our future at the same time.

The success template is relatively clear draft well hopefully find a star or two. Have reliable veterans with great leadership and coaching ability to being them through as fast as possible. Mix that group with a free agent or two and we have a list that maybe challenges for a flag or at very least remains competitive.

I agree with some of your criticisms but the coach isnt responsible for what trade price is spent on each traded player-the list mgt team is the one that carries the can on that.

 

[ATSAM]

I agree with some of your criticisms but the coach isnt responsible for what trade price is spent on each traded player-the list mgt team is the one that carries the can on that.

So who is responsible?. The Coach gets the credit when we win a premiership but won/t can't/ isn't given the blame when the next 5 seasons are failures. The recruitment team are copping it this year but do they make the decisions about who is required? The players cop it when we lose yet they do not recruit, select the team, make the changes on the day and can't develop on their own.
So is it a team effort. And is their a team at geelong or do we have individuals and groups doing their own thing. Is it much like the playing team on a day. Is it a lack of Leadership at every level.
We were lucky for a while at least we had leadership at playing level, now the last of them has gone-Bartel- in someone who could read the play take charge and gain control of the play again to win.
My glass is half empty at the moment.

 

[Vdubs]

So who is responsible?. The Coach gets the credit when we win a premiership but won/t can't/ isn't given the blame when the next 5 seasons are failures. The recruitment team are copping it this year but do they make the decisions about who is required? The players cop it when we lose yet they do not recruit, select the team, make the changes on the day and can't develop on their own.
So is it a team effort. And is their a team at geelong or do we have individuals and groups doing their own thing. Is it much like the playing team on a day. Is it a lack of Leadership at every level.
We were lucky for a while at least we had leadership at playing level, now the last of them has gone-Bartel- in someone who could read the play take charge and gain control of the play again to win.
My glass is half empty at the moment.

Taylor, Mackie, and JOEL SELWOOD are still there. Selwood def more leadership in every capacity than Bartel, and no disrespect to Jimmy.

We all have to cope with the eventual departure of ALL those premiership immortals. I would say Chris Scott is doing an amazing job at making that transition as painless as possible. Again, he knows what it was like at Brisbane after their flag players left, and with that insight he is keeping us competitive and this season, we were the only team the Premiers could not beat twice.

Calling not winning any flags after 2011 failures is harsh. Even when we were nearly invincible, we "failed" to win 2 of those things. They are that hard to win. We are not entitled to any flags in this competition, but if you can't cope with not winning after seeming to be close, you are spot on about your glass.

 

[you pick one]

So who is responsible?. The Coach gets the credit when we win a premiership but won/t can't/ isn't given the blame when the next 5 seasons are failures. The recruitment team are copping it this year but do they make the decisions about who is required? The players cop it when we lose yet they do not recruit, select the team, make the changes on the day and can't develop on their own.
So is it a team effort. And is their a team at geelong or do we have individuals and groups doing their own thing. Is it much like the playing team on a day. Is it a lack of Leadership at every level.
We were lucky for a while at least we had leadership at playing level, now the last of them has gone-Bartel- in someone who could read the play take charge and gain control of the play again to win.
My glass is half empty at the moment.

Under pining the whole AFL system is the AFL policy for the Southern States to share success by various means IE nobbling successful clubs and at the same time hand out huge advantages to teams north of the Murray.It's a caring and sharing AFL the best coaches and administrations will only keep you in the top 4 for a while but the system will always win in the long run.Geelong and Hawthorn have been magnificent in their endeavors to buck the system with out bottoming out.Blaming the head coach is way to simplistic IMO.

 

[ATSAM]

Under pining the whole AFL system is the AFL policy for the Southern States to share success by various means IE nobbling successful clubs and at the same time hand out huge advantages to teams north of the Murray.It's a caring and sharing AFL the best coaches and administrations will only keep you in the top 4 for a while but the system will always win in the long run.Geelong and Hawthorn have been magnificent in their endeavors to buck the system with out bottoming out.Blaming the head coach is way to simplistic IMO.

A agree that blaming the Coach is too simplistic but it is a team game and by his own words he is the leader of caching team. But does that mean he has charge of recruiting and development and injury management. I don't know and no-one seems to know how it works. So that is my point who is in charge.
As for Joel Selwood being a leader yes he is but through the way he plays not in making moves and ordering players around. The best player is not necessarily the best captain- Harley and Ling to name two.The Captain needs to have time to look at the whole play across all of the ground OR to have trust other players who do that aka Scarlett, Johnson, Mooney

 

[Vdubs]

A agree that blaming the Coach is too simplistic but it is a team game and by his own words he is the leader of caching team. But does that mean he has charge of recruiting and development and injury management. I don't know and no-one seems to know how it works. So that is my point who is in charge.
As for Joel Selwood being a leader yes he is but through the way he plays not in making moves and ordering players around. The best player is not necessarily the best captain- Harley and Ling to name two.The Captain needs to have time to look at the whole play across all of the ground OR to have trust other players who do that aka Scarlett, Johnson, Mooney

Mackie is your man then- has long been known for his "directorship" out on the ground, even when we had 30 and 2.

 

[Farmer2Goggin]

Like many I rated our 2016 performance as a strong pass , lots of deficiencies ticked off as improving and finishing top 4 capping it off.
2017 presents new challenges and one thing that didn't improve in 2016 - our F50 effectiveness need major work
I am a great believer that Scott is also accountable for the performance of the Coaching group , the buck stops with him.
I'll be looking at the following for signs of improvement in 2017
> F50 effectiveness - if we keep bombing it long to the big fella I'll spew - find a decent forward coach and get creative FFS
> Midfield depth - PFD/Sel need support , next generation must step up
> Backline - better quality movement out of defence is a must for 2017
> Development - players like Macca/Cocky/Lang/Gregson/Kolo/Ruggles/Cowan and Bews need to play well consistently

If we do those and maintain our contested numbers we should go a step or two further in 2017
Go Catters

 

[BlightysCats]

Like many I rated our 2016 performance as a strong pass , lots of deficiencies ticked off as improving and finishing top 4 capping it off.
2017 presents new challenges and one thing that didn't improve in 2016 - our F50 effectiveness need major work
I am a great believer that Scott is also accountable for the performance of the Coaching group , the buck stops with him.
I'll be looking at the following for signs of improvement in 2017
> F50 effectiveness - if we keep bombing it long to the big fella I'll spew - find a decent forward coach and get creative FFS
> Midfield depth - PFD/Sel need support , next generation must step up
> Backline - better quality movement out of defence is a must for 2017
> Development - players like Macca/Cocky/Lang/Gregson/Kolo/Ruggles/Cowan and Bews need to play well consistently

If we do those and maintain our contested numbers we should go a step or two further in 2017
Go Catters

Season = pass
Finals = dismal failure
Overall seeing as we've consistently failed in finals for the last half decade under Scott and finals are the ultimate measure of success, the year 2016 was yet another a disappointing one for The GFC.

 

[Sttew]

Season = pass
Finals = dismal failure
Overall seeing as we've consistently failed in finals for the last half decade under Scott and finals are the ultimate measure of success, the year 2016 was yet another a disappointing one for The GFC.

The the ultimate measure of success is a premiership. Geelong has on your reckoning failed in 111 out of 120 years

 

[BlightysCats]

The the ultimate measure of success is a premiership. Geelong has on your reckoning failed in 111 out of 120 years

'By my reckoning,' I never said in my above statement that because we didn't win the flag it was a failure, if we had've made the GF and had 2 winning finals to get there that would've been a pass for sure, hell if we had've smashed Hawthorn instead of limping over the line I might've said our finals form is improving but unfortunately we've won only 2 finals in 5 years and neither victory was convincing and in no finals series since 2011 have we played anywhere near our best footy. To you all of that is a happy coincidence but to myself and others it's now clear we have a coach that struggles tactically against the best in finals.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I know this will sound hypocritical given I am replying here, but why are their still posts in this thread right now?

There's no games right now, we're just rehashing old arguments at this point.
Nothing to see here until we play our next game of football.

 

[Kenjo]

Taylor, Mackie, and JOEL SELWOOD are still there. Selwood def more leadership in every capacity than Bartel, and no disrespect to Jimmy.

We all have to cope with the eventual departure of ALL those premiership immortals. I would say Chris Scott is doing an amazing job at making that transition as painless as possible. Again, he knows what it was like at Brisbane after their flag players left, and with that insight he is keeping us competitive and this season, we were the only team the Premiers could not beat twice.

Calling not winning any flags after 2011 failures is harsh. Even when we were nearly invincible, we "failed" to win 2 of those things. They are that hard to win. We are not entitled to any flags in this competition, but if you can't cope with not winning after seeming to be close, you are spot on about your glass.

I couldn't agree with this more! Pessimists on this board will only be happy if Geelong win the flag every year which just cannot happen. They say it's not true, they would be happy if we at least made it to the PF, but had we done that they would still be on their pessimist charge demanding Scott's head.

 

[dazbroncos]

There will be a bit of that... people like to stretch their legs after 3 weeks in" ze cooler"

GO Catters

 

[Ray Donovan]

I agree with some of your criticisms but the coach isnt responsible for what trade price is spent on each traded player-the list mgt team is the one that carries the can on that.

I agree with some of your criticisms but the coach isnt responsible for what trade price is spent on each traded player-the list mgt team is the one that carries the can on that.

I did not say he has any input in the pieces of the trade in or out i said i wanted someone to take accountability im aware the list management team which he is part of makes these decisions.

Im worried about the coaching directive of the desired players we are recruiting and that stems from the gamestyle and team list that a senior coach requires to implement his plan.

 

[Ray Donovan]

I agree with some of your criticisms but the coach isnt responsible for what trade price is spent on each traded player-the list mgt team is the one that carries the can on that.

Taylor, Mackie, and JOEL SELWOOD are still there. Selwood def more leadership in every capacity than Bartel, and no disrespect to Jimmy.

We all have to cope with the eventual departure of ALL those premiership immortals. I would say Chris Scott is doing an amazing job at making that transition as painless as possible. Again, he knows what it was like at Brisbane after their flag players left, and with that insight he is keeping us competitive and this season, we were the only team the Premiers could not beat twice.

Calling not winning any flags after 2011 failures is harsh. Even when we were nearly invincible, we "failed" to win 2 of those things. They are that hard to win. We are not entitled to any flags in this competition, but if you can't cope with not winning after seeming to be close, you are spot on about your glass.

I think you are not respecting jimmy at all he would of captained geelong if no harley and ling were involved. And he has been a leader at that club for years its like calling matthew scarlett or boris enrights experience useless compared to selwood in terms of leadership.
Who do you think helped mentor selwood on the way up.

Jimmy bartel
3x flags
Norm smith medal
Brownlow medalist
All australian
He has just been past his prime so we forget how dominant a force he was and how he was one of very best finals performers consistantly. Selwood is in his prime right now and deserves to lead the team into the future but never question bartels leadership around a grelong group

 

[BlightysCats]

I couldn't agree with this more! Pessimists on this board will only be happy if Geelong win the flag every year which just cannot happen. They say it's not true, they would be happy if we at least made it to the PF, but had we done that they would still be on their pessimist charge demanding Scott's head.

This ^ is rubbish, none of the so called 'pessimists' you refer to are unhappy with Scott because they/I think we should be winning the flag every year rather it's because our current playing style under Scott repetitively fails in finals, and we completely lack a clear plan to actually seriously challenge for a flag in the next few years. Scott has had 5 years to rebuild for a serious shot at a flag with his own team, name me one A grade player he's developed in that time?? What plan to rebuild has he had during that period?? We haven't traded out players for early picks to get good kids in, but we also haven't traded out to get good free agents in apart from our 2015 post season?? All we've done is get one big name recruit in to our midfield which glosses over the incredible mediocrity and lack of development of our second tier players over the last 5 years.

At the end of 2011 The Western Bulldogs made a bold decision to stop accepting mediocrity and go down the path of trading away elite players for good draft picks and building a young skillful team over time like we did back in 2000. If I had a choice of watching Geelong go down that same path since 2011 knowing there was a clear plan to rebuild for a shot at a flag I would've much preferred to watch us do that and miss finals over a few of those years rather than watch us simply hang around in finals like a bad smell never really being a chance to win a flag like we have done for half a decade now. Had we followed the Bullies path we'd be on the brink of another era of really being able to consistently challenge for the flag, as it stands right now though we're no chance whatsoever of a flag in the foreseeable future.

 

[BlightysCats]

I know this will sound hypocritical given I am replying here, but why are their still posts in this thread right now?

There's no games right now, we're just rehashing old arguments at this point.
Nothing to see here until we play our next game of football.

Nice sig, shame you didn't put it in context, I said that when he had his foot injury, an injury which I've gladly admitted since I completely over estimated the impact of. Would I ever have said that of a fully fit J. Selwood? Of course not.

 

[Cataholic]

Nice sig, shame you didn't put it in context, I said that when he had his foot injury, an injury which I've gladly admitted since I completely over estimated the impact of. Would I ever have said that of a fully fit J. Selwood? Of course not.

Huh?

I didn't see any reference to Selwood? DG was suggesting there's little to be said in this thread until we play a few games in the new season to ascertain if there's been any change

 

[dazbroncos]

Huh?

I didn't see any reference to Selwood? DG was suggesting there's little to be said in this thread until we play a few games in the new season to ascertain if there's been any change

I think he's referring to DG's sig in his posts at the bottom where he is quoting BC and he is not a fan of it.

Of course, where BC trolls the clubs slogan of Greatness, our tradition our Ambition - thats perfectly fine.

Just the usual double play in this thread.

GO Catters

 

[Cataholic]

I think he's referring to DG's sig in his posts at the bottom where he is quoting BC and he is not a fan of it.

Of course, where BC trolls the clubs slogan of Greatness, our tradition our Ambition - thats perfectly fine.

Just the usual double play in this thread.

GO Catters

Ah, I see.

I knew I must've been missing something, though I thought DG made a good point in his last post.

What's done is done, and no-one can determine what change or improvement has been made until we're a few games in early next year.......

 

[BlightysCats]

where BC trolls the clubs slogan of Greatness, our tradition our Ambition - thats perfectly fine.

Trolling the clubs slogan? Am I taking it completely out of context? My sig simply makes the point if you're being smashed in Prelims when finishing second on the ladder for the season are you really living up to that slogan?? Anyway I'd expect you to deliberately misinterpret that for a cheap insult you could throw my way, it seems to be your style on here.