Universal Love 2016/2017 Pre-season Thread

[Vader]

this is the critical thing to realise.

a time trial has its place, but if that's being used to keep someone out of the side its an absolute joke in my opinion, but of course that is only speculation. We'll find out later this year I guess, can't wait to see the Round 1 team.

It's not a joke at all. The team has minimum standards, which all players are expected to achieve. Midfielders are expected to have a higher level of fitness (as measured by the TT) than KPPs. If Menzel can't meet those standards (and I don't know whether he can or can't), then that is definitely a good reason for him not playing.

Nobody's expecting him to become a superstar runner, but he does have to meet the team standards.

 

[DD#23]

It's not a joke at all. The team has minimum standards, which all players are expected to achieve. Midfielders are expected to have a higher level of fitness (as measured by the TT) than KPPs. If Menzel can't meet those standards (and I don't know whether he can or can't), then that is definitely a good reason for him not playing.

Nobody's expecting him to become a superstar runner, but he does have to meet the team standards.

obviously jogging around in 8 minutes would be unacceptable, but given our selection history for the past 10 years or so I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to suggest that our fitness standards might be a touch higher than they need to be and our skills standards might be a touch too low.

the idea of using a time trial as a performance benchmark doesn't really make a lot of sense the way the game is played today. I don't want guys with skills dragging their feet at training and getting away with it, but I also don't think talented players who are putting in all the work and falling short of a completely arbitrary standard that has limited crossover to an actual game should be disqualified from selection by default.

I imagine someone like Menzel hovering in this grey area. He's also not competing from Sloane's position, I'm sure he could handle starting in the forward pocket and offering runs through the middle a la Betts and Cameron last year.

obviously there are plenty of assumptions being made about what our team standards actually are here as well, but I have little reason to doubt there would be very clear benchmarks in place, its just our way of doing things.

 

[ad victoriam]

If he can't get into the park I wander if Kelly can take his position?

Kelly has a good chance but is he more back up, would you run with Doedee or Maybe a Douglas/Hampton combination, But yes it open up the preseason games

 

[Vader]

obviously jogging around in 8 minutes would be unacceptable, but given our selection history for the past 10 years or so I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to suggest that our fitness standards might be a touch higher than they need to be and our skills standards might be a touch too low.

the idea of using a time trial as a performance benchmark doesn't really make a lot of sense the way the game is played today. I don't want guys with skills dragging their feet at training and getting away with it, but I also don't think talented players who are putting in all the work and falling short of a completely arbitrary standard that has limited crossover to an actual game should be disqualified from selection by default.

I imagine someone like Menzel hovering in this grey area. He's also not competing from Sloane's position, I'm sure he could handle starting in the forward pocket and offering runs through the middle a la Betts and Cameron last year.

obviously there are plenty of assumptions being made about what our team standards actually are here as well, but I have little reason to doubt there would be very clear benchmarks in place, its just our way of doing things.

Menzel may have moved into the "grey" area this year. Maybe. Last year he was well into the black.

I have absolutely no problem at all with them setting high standards for fitness. You do have a valid point about the skills of some players being below standard, but they do have some skills standards (it's one of the reasons why CEY has played so few games). Recruiting more highly skilled players would be a good place to start - there's no point in setting high standards if only a handful of players on the entire list are able to achieve them.

Last year Menzel's fitness was completely unacceptable. It's clearly improved since then. Whether or not it has reached an acceptable (minimum) standard is the big question.

 

[baldandbroke]

Side looks good, but Riley Knight is a must pick.

He's there man

I/C: R.Knight, C.Cameron, C.Hampton, W.Milera

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

He's there man

I/C: R.Knight, C.Cameron, C.Hampton, W.Milera

My bad.

Great looking side!

 

[Ozzie]

Having him benchmarked against Sauce and the leader in isolation is meaningless. However, Thinker is to be trusted as he has always provided reliable inside oil. But, we seem to be getting hand picked context, so whilst I comfortably accept the info as being 100% factual, I'm left wondering if Thinker might have a minor bias against Menzel.

LOL, I have a "minor bias" against Menzel, I think he is hugely over rated by some on here.

 

[Carmo]

We played WC first round of preseason comp last year didnt we? They brought over a full on second string team and our second string belted them didnt they? That's my recollection.

I'm really looking forward to our first preseason game to get a good look at a heap of people, but it will annoy me if WC bring across another team so weak that there is little we can take from the game.

 

[beartoo]

We played WC first round of preseason comp last year didnt we? They brought over a full on second string team and our second string belted them didnt they? That's my recollection.

I'm really looking forward to our first preseason game to get a good look at a heap of people, but it will annoy me if WC bring across another team so weak that there is little we can take from the game.

I thought we played Richmond, Geelong and Brisbane this pre-season?

 

[Bicks]

Guess it's not as bad as burning the soles of your feet walking on hot coals or stuffing your achilles tendon with a training sled...

https://www.triplem.com.au/sport/af...a-brick-at-pre-season-camp/?station=melbourne

 

[dogs105]

Cheney as I said in an earlier post it could be the beginning of the end, If he does not play the first couple of games. Doedee comes in perform OK and Cheney is gone.
Brown would be interesting and maybe the reason why they are training a few extra to playback, but if a Gore or Wigg play the first couple and go well he may struggle to get back. Straight away.
JJ is a problem it's his fitness and running that gives him and edge, But the shining light is we seeing a few player step up on the training track. Particularly Hunter who is blowing most of the track and has genuine speed to go with his new found endurance. And the boy can take a pack mark.
Lynch he starts with a strong fitness base so I have no doubt he will be ready.

New found endurance?


He did about a 15-16 beep test at his state combine.

 

[Squiba]

Alright, let's give this a go...

Brown Hartigan Lever
Laird** Talia Smith**
Atkins* M.Crouch* Cameron*
Lynch Walker Knight*
Betts** Jenkins McGovern**
Fol: Jacobs, B. Crouch*, Sloane*

Int: Hampton*, Milera*, Menzel**, Doedee**/Cheney

* indicating that the player is a large part of our midfield rotations
** indicating the player pinch hits through the middle as a point of difference and/or resting a core midfielder.

Doedee probably gets the nod over Cheney if he is apt in the middle, over Brown if he can lock down small fwds

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Alright, let's give this a go...

Brown Hartigan Lever
Laird** Talia Smith**
Atkins* M.Crouch* Cameron*
Lynch Walker Knight*
Betts** Jenkins McGovern**
Fol: Jacobs, B. Crouch*, Sloane*

Int: Hampton*, Milera*, Menzel**, Doedee**/Cheney

* indicating that the player is a large part of our midfield rotations
** indicating the player pinch hits through the middle as a point of difference and/or resting a core midfielder.

Doedee probably gets the nod over Cheney if he is apt in the middle, over Brown if he can lock down small fwds

And people talk about my .......Squiba, your post looks like a Christmas tree, glad you have the festive spirit

 

[Ramify]

obviously jogging around in 8 minutes would be unacceptable, but given our selection history for the past 10 years or so I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to suggest that our fitness standards might be a touch higher than they need to be and our skills standards might be a touch too low.

the idea of using a time trial as a performance benchmark doesn't really make a lot of sense the way the game is played today. I don't want guys with skills dragging their feet at training and getting away with it, but I also don't think talented players who are putting in all the work and falling short of a completely arbitrary standard that has limited crossover to an actual game should be disqualified from selection by default.

I imagine someone like Menzel hovering in this grey area. He's also not competing from Sloane's position, I'm sure he could handle starting in the forward pocket and offering runs through the middle a la Betts and Cameron last year.

obviously there are plenty of assumptions being made about what our team standards actually are here as well, but I have little reason to doubt there would be very clear benchmarks in place, its just our way of doing things.

BOOM! SUck on that Neil Craig.

 

[Ramify]

I thought we played Richmond, Geelong and Brisbane this pre-season?

I thought we played Freo? I thought I went to the game???

 

[Danger in Texas]

I thought we played Richmond, Geelong and Brisbane this pre-season?

This coming pre-season we do, I believe

We played WCE, Freo and GC last preseason

 

[Alwaysacrow]

While I enjoy all this speculation about Menzels fitness which seems to based on nothing more than a few photos and some random reports the litmus test will be whether he's chosen for round 1. I doubt he will be for some reason. I have a feeling that round 1 team will feature most if not all of our best 22 regulars from last year, although Pyke did surprise me last year when he included McLovin and Milera.

 

[DD#23]

While I enjoy all this speculation about Menzels fitness which seems to based on nothing more than a few photos and some random reports the litmus test will be whether he's chosen for round 1. I doubt he will be for some reason. I have a feeling that round 1 team will feature most if not all of our best 22 regulars from last year, although Pyke did surprise me last year when he included McLovin and Milera.

the photos were a bit of elaborate fun, but they were prompted by claims from a very reliable source that Menzel's first TT result at the start of preseason was "less than a minute" behind the fastest time. The rest was just extrapolation for the sake of visualisation, as his fitness seems to come up a lot around here.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

the photos were a bit of elaborate fun, but they were prompted by claims from a very reliable source that Menzel's first TT result at the start of preseason was "less than a minute" behind the fastest time. The rest was just extrapolation for the sake of visualisation, as his fitness seems to come up a lot around here.

Ok ta. I didn't read all of it.

 

[Scorpus]

obviously jogging around in 8 minutes would be unacceptable, but given our selection history for the past 10 years or so I don't think I'd be going out on a limb to suggest that our fitness standards might be a touch higher than they need to be and our skills standards might be a touch too low.

the idea of using a time trial as a performance benchmark doesn't really make a lot of sense the way the game is played today. I don't want guys with skills dragging their feet at training and getting away with it, but I also don't think talented players who are putting in all the work and falling short of a completely arbitrary standard that has limited crossover to an actual game should be disqualified from selection by default.

I imagine someone like Menzel hovering in this grey area. He's also not competing from Sloane's position, I'm sure he could handle starting in the forward pocket and offering runs through the middle a la Betts and Cameron last year.

obviously there are plenty of assumptions being made about what our team standards actually are here as well, but I have little reason to doubt there would be very clear benchmarks in place, its just our way of doing things.

Our club loves guys that train well, run well, but aren't actually that skilled.

I can't imagine a guy like Mackay or Van Berlo would have lasted nearly as long in an AFL system if they were only average to poor on the training track (to match their AFL skill)

 

[GROTTO]

Our club loves guys that train well, run well, but aren't actually that skilled.

I can't imagine a guy like Mackay or Van Berlo would have lasted nearly as long in an AFL system if they were only average to poor on the training track (to match their AFL skill)

+1

There is a reason why we really never had much trouble holding onto 400kay and VB on our list when their contracts were being discussed.

 

[GROTTO]

While I enjoy all this speculation about Menzels fitness which seems to based on nothing more than a few photos and some random reports the litmus test will be whether he's chosen for round 1. I doubt he will be for some reason. I have a feeling that round 1 team will feature most if not all of our best 22 regulars from last year, although Pyke did surprise me last year when he included McLovin and Milera.

I think we will know much sooner than that.

Game 1 and Game 3 of the NAB will be a better idea of what Pykes plans are. Game 3 is basically a dress rehearsal for R1.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Our club loves guys that train well, run well, but aren't actually that skilled.

I can't imagine a guy like Mackay or Van Berlo would have lasted nearly as long in an AFL system if they were only average to poor on the training track (to match their AFL skill)

That's just emotional rubbish ......just think about that statement, it's illogical !

 

[Matman23]

Imo, Doedee is likely to pass Kelly as far higher upside.

I feel that the back pocket spot is avalible between Brown, Cheney, Kelly and Doedee.

I'm really hoping that Doedee can dominate during the pre-season and secure the role. If he can come along this season our backline is near elite.

Lever Hartigan Doedee
Smith Talia Laird

 

[Jeffcrowe]

While I enjoy all this speculation about Menzels fitness which seems to based on nothing more than a few photos and some random reports the litmus test will be whether he's chosen for round 1. I doubt he will be for some reason. I have a feeling that round 1 team will feature most if not all of our best 22 regulars from last year, although Pyke did surprise me last year when he included McLovin and Milera.

I think Knight and Milera are big chances to play round 1 pending pre season form at expense of Dmac and Lyons

If Cheney is underdone then Doedee may be a chance , ditto if brown struggles with his groin or form

I'm tipping
Ins Milera Knight and a smoky ( CEY Menzel Hampton or Wigg ) for
Outs Lyons Dmac and Thommo