Oppo Camp Non Eagles Discussion thread - 2017 edition (continued in Part 2)

[SpaceClef]

Far easier to develop top 10 picks than pick 70.

Yes, because it goes picks 1-10 and then jumps straight to 70.

Just saying, all you need is a core of a strong midfield and then you can easily find players all through the draft that turn a middling side into a premiership side.

 

[WCErevival]

If it was that easy every team would be doing it

 

[Keys]

Yes, because it goes picks 1-10 and then jumps straight to 70.

Just saying, all you need is a core of a strong midfield and then you can easily find players all through the draft that turn a middling side into a premiership side.

Easily?

Now who's being silly

 

[Truckosaurus]

The most recent top-10 pick for Fremantle* is Stephen Hill, right?

*That's still on their list.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

The most recent top-10 pick for Fremantle* is Stephen Hill, right?

*That's still on their list.

Logue

 

[Truckosaurus]

Logue

First years don't count, a good first year is cherry-on-top, not the ice cream you base your whole dessert on.

Yes I am hungry.

 

[mattyc75]

so nice going on to the Hawks board and seeing their posters are saying "Just play the kids". Finally they have fallen from the top and somenoe else gets a turn.

Clarkson will jump ship soon

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Truckosaurus]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-09/australian-club-to-be-axed-from-super-rugby/8429290

Well, they lasted longer than the Reds.

 

[ep2018]

lol

 

[YippeeYiYeo]

lol

sounds like a soccer chant audio has been dubbed over the top?

 

[SpaceClef]

Easily?

Now who's being silly

If you want to be pedantic then remove the word "easily" and the point is still valid.

Sure, it might get more difficult to unearth a Brownlow medallist with a late pick, but people on here often talk as if there's no point drafting unless we have a top ten pick.

I think maybe it's partly symptomatic of being a WC supporter over the past 7 or 8 years and seeing the results of our drafting and development over that time.

And using the "name a premiership team without a top ten pick" argument is just implying that correlation equals causation

 

[WCErevival]

If you want to be pedantic then remove the word "easily" and the point is still valid.

Sure, it might get more difficult to unearth a Brownlow medallist with a late pick, but people on here often talk as if there's no point drafting unless we have a top ten pick.

I think maybe it's partly symptomatic of being a WC supporter over the past 7 or 8 years and seeing the results of our drafting and development over that time.

And using the "name a premiership team without a top ten pick" argument is just implying that correlation equals causation

Nobody is arguing that you need a top ten pick but when you've had barely any and other teams have had regular access to some real top end talent it's going to make a difference in the long term unless you are really lucky and unearth a gem every year. We are starting to see that now. A lot of the teams that were playing regular finals are having the same issue.

 

[kane249]

Does anyone else think they Hogan smoking thing is being blown out of proportion? What he does in his own time is own business, and there are a lot worse things he could be doing than something that is legal.

 

[WCErevival]

Does anyone else think they Hogan smoking thing is being blown out of proportion? What he does in his own time is own business, and there are a lot worse things he could be doing than something that is legal.

It's not even news.

 

[ChampRevesby]

Does anyone else think they Hogan smoking thing is being blown out of proportion? What he does in his own time is own business, and there are a lot worse things he could be doing than something that is legal.

Absurd its even being talked about.

 

[Keys]

If you want to be pedantic then remove the word "easily" and the point is still valid.

Sure, it might get more difficult to unearth a Brownlow medallist with a late pick, but people on here often talk as if there's no point drafting unless we have a top ten pick.

I think maybe it's partly symptomatic of being a WC supporter over the past 7 or 8 years and seeing the results of our drafting and development over that time.

And using the "name a premiership team without a top ten pick" argument is just implying that correlation equals causation

I think your basic premise that clubs need to nail their draft picks is valid especially ones in the top 10 or first round even. If you don't then ultimate success won't come

That said, nailing those picks isn't as easy as people think. West Coast haven't been perfect by any stretch but since 2010 we've had one top 10 pick to work with and our results under Simpson have been better than most

We need to be better but some of the knee jerk reactions after a loss have been OTT and fail to comprehend that winning a premiership is really ****ing difficult. Others have been more measured but in a weekend where Sydney and hawthorn went to 0-3, and the Bulldogs lost to fremantle we didn't do that badly. Who knows maybe Richmond aren't as bad as everyone thought so losing to them might not be quite the disaster we think

Or maybe I'm not marking the club hard enough. Ultimately near enough is not good enough so the criticism may be justified in that sense, but by the same token just getting close is still difficult and we're one of a handful of clubs that have managed that in recent times

 

[kempy]

Does anyone else think they Hogan smoking thing is being blown out of proportion? What he does in his own time is own business, and there are a lot worse things he could be doing than something that is legal.

I'm not surprised given he promoted Winfield cigarettes for years. I'm surprised its news ...

 

[Forward Press]

Does anyone else think they Hogan smoking thing is being blown out of proportion? What he does in his own time is own business, and there are a lot worse things he could be doing than something that is legal.

Probably more how he's suspended for two weeks (and arguably cost his team a win along with Lewis' brain fade) and he's seen having a good time in Perth.

 

[Keys]

Probably more how he's suspended for two weeks (and arguably cost his team a win along with Lewis' brain fade) and he's seen having a good time in Perth.

How dare a player have a good time. It's outrageous

When the media are highlighting a player doing something perfectly legal as some sort of scandal it's time for them to step back and consider what are acceptable boundaries when intruding into players private lives

And the nimrod that filmed him can GAGF

 

[Ochre]

Does anyone else think they Hogan smoking thing is being blown out of proportion? What he does in his own time is own business, and there are a lot worse things he could be doing than something that is legal.

Considering this board's melt after the Tigers game, if one of our players had done the same, you'd see the same takes here.

 

[Matele]

How dare a player have a good time. It's outrageous

When the media are highlighting a player doing something perfectly legal as some sort of scandal it's time for them to step back and consider what are acceptable boundaries when intruding into players private lives

And the nimrod that filmed him can GAGF

The main negative consequence this may have is that VicHealth allegedly sponsor Melbourne in a big way, but even then I can't see why they wouldn't spin it as a "You can make healthy choices" sorta thing and use it as a learning experience for all.

Social smoking is far more regular in current teens/twenty-somethings than a lot of people realise.

 

[SpaceClef]

The main negative consequence this may have is that VicHealth allegedly sponsor Melbourne in a big way, but even then I can't see why they wouldn't spin it as a "You can make healthy choices" sorta thing and use it as a learning experience for all.

Social smoking is far more regular in current teens/twenty-somethings than a lot of people realise.

Issue with VicHealth is that they were established under the Tobacco Act - their whole existence was to promote anti-smoking policies.

They've expanded now to include a bunch of public health strategies, but smoking is central to their constitution. E.g. if an organisation wants to get funding from VicHealth, or even respond to a project that they put up for tender, the organisation needs to confirm that they have no connection to the tobacco industry etc.

Obviously you can't stop all staff from the organisation from smoking, and it's 100% legal, but the VicHealth sponsorship is probably the reason for the uproar.

Also he was suspended so I can only assume that people think he should be kept in his room until his suspension is served.

 

[Keys]

The main negative consequence this may have is that VicHealth allegedly sponsor Melbourne in a big way, but even then I can't see why they wouldn't spin it as a "You can make healthy choices" sorta thing and use it as a learning experience for all.

Social smoking is far more regular in current teens/twenty-somethings than a lot of people realise.

So are vichealth going to crack it if someone films him eating a Big Mac

Like it or not it's legal

The scrutiny of players is unhealthy and I'm surprised more players don't have mental health issues coping with some of the unrealistic demands placed on them

 

[SpaceClef]

I think your basic premise that clubs need to nail their draft picks is valid especially ones in the top 10 or first round even. If you don't then ultimate success won't come

That said, nailing those picks isn't as easy as people think. West Coast haven't been perfect by any stretch but since 2010 we've had one top 10 pick to work with and our results under Simpson have been better than most

We need to be better but some of the knee jerk reactions after a loss have been OTT and fail to comprehend that winning a premiership is really ******* difficult. Others have been more measured but in a weekend where Sydney and hawthorn went to 0-3, and the Bulldogs lost to fremantle we didn't do that badly. Who knows maybe Richmond aren't as bad as everyone thought so losing to them might not be quite the disaster we think

Or maybe I'm not marking the club hard enough. Ultimately near enough is not good enough so the criticism may be justified in that sense, but by the same token just getting close is still difficult and we're one of a handful of clubs that have managed that in recent times

Yeah look I don't think I have had too many knee jerk reactions since the loss. I was thinking our recent list management and development has been questionable even before the season started.

It's obviously not the case that every draft pick turns into a B22 player, but you only have to look at the best players each round and find that they were taken all over the national and rookie drafts.

I do think that players taken in the first couple of rounds are much more likely to make it than rookies, but I disagree that there's as much separating pick 4 and pick 34 as what people on here make out.

There'll always be absolute guaranteed future AAs like Weitering that you'll never have access to without bottoming out. But after the first one or two, sometimes three or four standout kids, there isn't that much separating the players IMO.

Some people on here blame our drafting/development on the expansion sides, as if the compromised drafts only affected us and no other club. IMO we have been much more affected by 1) using the rookie draft for players delisted by other clubs for being shit/permainjured; 2) using draft picks to upgrade rookies who didn't deserve to be upgraded; 3) trading first round picks for overrated players and giving them more opportunity/leniency than they often afford to draftees, and then 4) retaining some players for too long.

 

[SpaceClef]

So are vichealth going to crack it if someone films him eating a Big Mac

Like it or not it's legal

The scrutiny of players is unhealthy and I'm surprised more players don't have mental health issues coping with some of the unrealistic demands placed on them

Probably not because like I said, VH seems to take smoking much more seriously than anything else