2017 Trade & FA Targets - The Last Supper #Ameetos

[Dr Spaceman]

In other news, Bartel wants to make a comeback...

FMD.

 

[gringo2011]

Nixon turning up to trade week reminds me of that Kinne skit when they show you can get in just about anywhere provided you are carrying a ladder under your arm ... can anyone confirm Ricky had a ladder with him ?

Clipboard or lanyard works just as well. I had a mate who went to gigs at just about every venue using a homemade letraset lanyard thing with Press Photographer written on it. It was shit but he only got stopped from going in a few times. Probably harder these days.

 

[Keg on legs]

Realistically what's schache worth. It's all based on potential but an early teens pick would be very appealing for Brisbane.

I love the big trades that **** over other teams but Carlton giving up 3 and next year's first for 7 and schache isn't going to happen.

I reckon his worth falls somewhere between 12 and 18


Contracted so that helps him hold value. If he was OOC he'd be worth 20- 25ish imo

 

[StCicatriz]

GWS happy with their ruck stocks. cross hickey off the list. they're not trading one, happy to draft one

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

It is fact that some drafts are better than others. And that experts get it right sometimes. Anyway still living in hope we don't have 7 and 8 in the draft.

you should clarify that ... you hope we have better deal than 7&8 in the draft cause if the alternative is Crozier and Watts for 7&8 then i hope to god we have 7&8 in the draft ..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Realistically what's schache worth. It's all based on potential but an early teens pick would be very appealing for Brisbane.

I love the big trades that **** over other teams but Carlton giving up 3 and next year's first for 7 and schache isn't going to happen.

His goals per game are slightly behind Paddy's.

 

[gringo2011]

It is fact that some drafts are better than others. And that experts get it right sometimes. Anyway still living in hope we don't have 7 and 8 in the draft.

Why? You would rather get a spud and over pay than go to the draft? No ones left that we would want. Perhaps we could see if Geelong will give Stanley back for the 2 firsts. Brisbane got Dayne beams who has been permanently injured and Alan Christensen who looked potential A grade to boost their rebuild. It's not always the right way.

 

[plugger66]

you should clarify that ... you hope we have better deal than 7&8 in the draft cause if the alternative is Crozier and Watts for 7&8 then i hope to god we have 7&8 in the draft ..

Well ive said 1966 times I want class and mids so it wont be for Watts or crozier whoever he is.

 

[saint66au]

If we somehow do get pick 1 I'd want us to trade it Gold Coast for pick 2 if possible

I don't the pressure of being pick 1 hanging over the kid we pick if we were to have it.

Especially if it's an even draft where you can mount an argument for 4 players to be pick 1.

Ummm seriously? Any list manager who brokered that deal would be out the door the net day I reckon

 

[kernelT]

Trade tracker can barely keep up...

 

[gringo2011]

for anyone doubting peoples comments on next years draft compared to this one, then I would recommend re-watching this years carnival footage. write down your best players. when you combine that with the avid tac cup watchers i'd be amazed if the top 6 players arent all players from next years draft

which means one of two things:
1) this years draft is poor which made the under-age talent look better than it is
2) next years draft is a beauty

Guys like Worpol and O'Brien looked like stars last year. H Goddard was a number one pick a year out. Things change. Last year was a meh draft with no real stand out players and a very even list in the top 25 picks. It ended up being a very good draft with plenty of kids looking like they will play plenty of high level footy. You just have to buy in the market you are in and pick well.

 

[saint_]

I'd say next year's crop will be like 2013 draft quality.

 

[plugger66]

Why? You would rather get a spud and over pay than go to the draft? No ones left that we would want. Perhaps we could see if Geelong will give Stanley back for the 2 firsts. Brisbane got Dayne beams who has been permanently injured and Alan Christensen who looked potential A grade to boost their rebuild. It's not always the right way.

Gringo you say I argue for the sake of it then you ask me would I rather a spud. How many times do I have to say I want very good to star players. I have told you at least 100 times the days of getting depth are over IMO. Your post is ridiculous.

 

[StCicatriz]

interesting comment from the hodge scenarios. because he signed the retirement form, it means he doesnt classify as a DFA, which means hawthorn can still trade and get something for him

 

[gringo2011]

Gotta really wonder about this Tomlinson situation, given what Harford keeps on saying.

It seems extremely likely that he was told by Schache (if it's true that they were at something together last week) that GWS have put him up for trade, which would explain why we've gone for someone with two years to go on a newly signed contract, who played 21 games this year.

What GWS are saying is possibly just a PR exercise, to make it look like they're not pushing him out the door, in particular in case a deal doesn't go through. They said all the same stuff about Boyd.

Entirely possible that the two clubs have pretty much worked out an in-principle agreement already.

Also possible of course that GWS put him on the table, but that our offer to them is not enough, hence them now saying so categorically that he won't be traded.

It sounds like we offered a straight swap for Hickey. I'm pretty sure they would have scoffed at that.

 

[gringo2011]

Gringo you say I argue for the sake of it then you ask me would I rather a spud. How many times do I have to say I want very good to star players. I have told you at least 100 times the days of getting depth are over IMO. Your post is ridiculous.

Who do you want to give them up for then? There doesn't seem much left. I reckon you could get Ablett if you want A grade talent, Rocklif? Not much on offer. If you are going to be disappointed if we still have them, you had better hope some huge left field trade comes our way.

 

[bird_man]

interesting comment from the hodge scenarios. because he signed the retirement form, it means he doesnt classify as a DFA, which means hawthorn can still trade and get something for him

That fairest thing to do would be for Brisbane to work out how many kids they'll draft and then give the next pick to Hawthorn.

Knowing what Hawthorn have this year, they'll be happy with that.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

Well ive said 1966 times I want class and mids so it wont be for Watts or crozier whoever he is.

and where do you expect one to just appear from ?
you can want in one hand and crap in the other and see what gets filled first ...

 

[StCicatriz]

That fairest thing to do would be for Brisbane to work out how many kids they'll draft and then give the next pick to Hawthorn.

Knowing what Hawthorn have this year, they'll be happy with that.

spot on

i wonder if a club will come knocking for joey, same situation i imagine

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

interesting comment from the hodge scenarios. because he signed the retirement form, it means he doesnt classify as a DFA, which means hawthorn can still trade and get something for him

i wonder if G-Train had signed the retirment form in his false start retirment ... still cost us a draft pick (all be it a late one )

 

[George]

interesting comment from the hodge scenarios. because he signed the retirement form, it means he doesnt classify as a DFA, which means hawthorn can still trade and get something for him

Will probably be very late picks like they did with Mitchell

 

[plugger66]

Who do you want to give them up for then? There doesn't seem much left. I reckon you could get Ablett if you want A grade talent, Rocklif? Not much on offer. If you are going to be disappointed if we still have them, you had better hope some huge left field trade comes our way.

I have no idea who id give them up for. Maybe pick 7 for Martin and 8 for Fyfe with their firsts back to us. Seems fair. Alright I will add age as a criteria as well if that makes you happy. And apart from trading I have also said I would hope we could upgrade our 2 picks to a top 3 pick. Probably wont happen but should please you and still use the draft. Unlike some who are trying to say how happy they are to go to the draft with 2 mid first rounders, I will be disappointed because IMO that trade with the Hawks last year we designed to get a star player. We most likely wont and we will most likely use 7 and 8. I will be barrack they will become stars but I will spew up if guys who are so excited by doing that suddenly say the club are dickheads if those guys just turn out to be good honest players.

 

[Premium]

Don't have time to respond to every post as I have certainly ruffled a few feathers and only have 15 minutes to punch this out then I am off to Thailand for a couple of weeks. This one is the last one I could see, so here goes. A couple of points before I answer your question more directly:

1. I don't think they are necessarily doing a bad job. However, I certainly am not willing to praise them as being anything other than about average or maybe slightly above relative to other list managers. Ameet seems good, Trout has done nothing to warrant the regular praise he gets, and it is too early to call Richo the right man for the job. He had a poor year IMO, however that is for another thread.
2. Based on point 1, I get frustrated when the underlying theme on here is that "we are in good hands". I feel some people assume that we have superior administration to other clubs. I don't see any evidence that points to this being true other than their being a good vibe amongst the group. It is yet to translate to either on-field success, or what I would perceive to be a gun young list poised to rise the ladder. We still have massive holes in our list that won't be fixed easily.
3. I get the 5 year plan was just a target. I for one never expected us to get there. That being said, it seems to also be being dismissed on here as irrelevant pretty damn quick.
4. Obviously nobody expects perfection on drafting night. However, if we nailed just 1-2 more decisions we would be in a completely different position right now. Hence why I am reluctant to label these guys gurus.

I am not going to sit here and claim I had enough foresight to have suggested any of the below pre draft. However, that is also not my job. You did ask for examples, so I am willing to throw a few out there that would have made a massive difference and put us in far greater shape:

2013: Billings was the obvious choice. Can't complain. However, we took Acres and Dunstan over Merrett and Crouch. We were told we would be focusing on foot skills. Merrett was a very big miss, foot skills, foot skills, foot skills...... Dunstan was considered to be a slider before the draft. We probably reached a little in the end. Crouch was a ball magnet in juniors, again a pretty big miss. Either of these 2 over Dunstan or Acres and we are much better team.

2014: McCartin over Petracca. Most clubs pick the absolute best talent with high end picks. We claim that we rated McCartin higher, but I am not convinced. I think Petracca was a flog in his interview and we were too scared to manage it. Almost everybody else rated Petracca the better player.

You couldn't fault the Goddard pick. It was the right call at the time despite not working out. McKenzie was a very poor selection. Not what we need at all. Poor foot skills and a half back flanker AGAIN (more on this later). Miller would have been nice, and exactly what we need.

Lonie was also a poor pick up in the context of Caleb Daniel being on the table. They are both short people, why not pick the one who can actually play. Again, were is the focus on foot skills. Anybody who watched the champs that year could have told you Daniel had absolutely exquisite foot skills. The bloke literally never misses a target.

2015: Nailed it. However, drafted more back flankers (back to this point in a minute)

2016: Very average. Battle was an obvious pick that late, but regardless looks to be a decent call. Long was a shocker. I know it is early, but he can't even get near it at VFL level. Prior to being drafted didn't prove a thing. Kicked 4 Joe the Goose calls in junk time in a VFL grand final. Big deal. Bolton a big miss considering he is exactly what we need.

So to summarise, some hits and misses. To be fair our trading has been far more successful than drafting. Hence why I am not overly confident they will "nail it" this year at the draft.

It is important to note that we have also constructed a very unbalanced list, and this should be overlaid to the above decisions. Midfielders are the most important ingredient to winning a flag and we seem to be either allergic to drafting them or we refuse to try and legitimately convert back flankers to on-ballers. In the last 6 years we have bought in Roberton, White, Rice, Savage, Newnes, Webster, McKenzie and we want to play all of them on the back flank FFS. Furthermore, we moved Joey back there and still have Gilbert playing down back. WTF is the point?

Meanwhile we have only really bought in Dunstan, Steele, Freeman & Stevens as pure mids in that time. That is way out of whack. Additionally, far too inside. Also, why have some of these blokes not been able to transition to a wing for example? Other clubs seem to be able to do this, but have struggled to make it work. Is it development or poor drafting? I don't know the answer but it is a big problem.

So to summarise, I don't think our drafting is worse than other clubs, but I certainly would not rate it better than others either. Outside Gresham, we have not really nailed anybody else at the draft. Just 1 of the above would have made a big difference. Furthermore we have built a slow unbalanced list with too many decent players vying for the same position.

I would hardly call the rebuild a raging success just because we were worse 3 years ago. We have been out of finals for a while now, and our weakest area is the most important (e.g. a strong midfield). It has to be rectified.

I really think this year is massive. We need 2 midfielders and we need at least 1 but hopefully 2 to be a big factor within 2-3 years. Additionally, we have to do something about the half back problem. If we rate White as much as we say we do, I would support trading one of Newnes or Webster if we get a reasonable deal. These guys are going to get kept out by players like Gilbo and we are losing precious development opportunity.

Anyways, got to fly. Let's all hope I am a big idiot and there is nothing to worry about whatsover and it all clicks for our young blokes next year and I have massive egg on my face

Good post Saint bill, you have brought a good point up
It is important to note that we have also constructed a very unbalanced list, and this should be overlaid to the above decisions. Midfielders are the most important ingredient to winning a flag and we seem to be either allergic to drafting them or we refuse to try and legitimately convert back flankers to on-ballers. In the last 6 years we have bought in Roberton, White, Rice, Savage, Newnes, Webster, McKenzie and we want to play all of them on the back flank FFS. Furthermore, we moved Joey back there and still have Gilbert playing down back. WTF is the point?

Rice/Geary Brown/Goddard/Tomlinson Webster
Roberton Carlisle White/Savage

Newnes , McKenzie can play as mids or as defencive half forwards - this why I'm open to trading Weller.

Gilbert given a year contract - because he had a good year and is a gap filler - if we are getting beaten in a position we usually through him into the position - on Buddy or some guy that is cutting us up and can fill Brown or Carlisles position

They are saying Tomlinson is not moving but , having him in the team would make our backline very strong and versatile and go to the draft with 7 and a late teen pick , if the GWS deal comes good, but will have to wait until close to the end of the draft to see if this unfolds.

 

[plugger66]

and where do you expect one to just appear from ?
you can want in one hand and crap in the other and see what gets filled first ...

As ive said no idea where they will come from but surely I'm allowed to be disappointed if all the trading ends up with us using 7 and 8 in the draft and as others can be thoroughly excited by that prospect.

 

[The_Steadier]

It sounds like we offered a straight swap for Hickey. I'm pretty sure they would have scoffed at that.

Reading between the lines:

1. gws tell us they're keen on our top 10 picks and give us a list of 'available' contracted players.

2. Ameets eyes light up when he sees tomlinsons name on the list (a guy he's been chasing for years)

3. Ameet goes and checks with Adam he's interested in being rich and playing in stkildas 2nd flag. (He is)

4. Ameet knows gws are only giving him that list because their cap is screwed and they gotta lose players- so he offers up the hick.

5. Gws say, hang on mate that list was for top 10 picks! He's not for sale!

6. Ameet waits until gws get desperate, we get tomlinson- picks 7 & 8 intact.

(If step 6 doesn't eventuate; talia will do instead)