Politics Perfidious Albion - The Crimes of The English Empire known as "the United Kingdom"

[Proud SJW]

You can't, but you also can't deny that communism did the same in Russia and China. Both were feudal backwaters populated by a large and extremely poor peasant class, that under the auspices of communism were transformed into industrial and military superpowers. China is now largest economy in the world.

So the argument that the price of Empire (tens of millions of deaths) was worth paying for the eventual transformation of those countries could easily be said about Mao. Gotta break some eggs to make an omelette.

Yes, and Hitler dramatically increased the living standards in Germany, as well.
It doesn't make the argument any less true, but there will always be those who run around saying Kill Bill should be eradicated from history and never shown again because Weinstein is an alleged rapist. It's extremely poor logic, but there will always be those who indulge in it.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Another attack on western civilisation by the left .

If it wasn't for western civilisation we wouldn't all be living the quality of life we currently live and the English played a key role in this .

Human civilisation like all forms of life is a competition were the strong conquer the week, the British were just the biggest and the strongest .

 

[Procrastinator35]

Another attack on western civilization by the left .

If it wasn't for western civilization we wouldn't all be living the quality of life we currently live and the English played a key role in this .

Human civilization like all forms of life is a competition were the strong conquer the week, the British were just the biggest and the strongest .

Weak.

Nothing wrong with a bit of honest, moral inventory amigo....Learning from our mistakes & taking stock is what life is all about; & is a sign of a strong & healthy culture, willing to admit it's own mistakes....Otherwise you're just living in denial & are doomed to repeat those same errors.

Time to expand upon those defensive horizons matey.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Weak.

Nothing wrong with a bit of honest, moral inventory amigo....Learning from our mistakes & taking stock is what life is all about; & is a sign of a strong & healthy culture, willing to admit it's own mistakes....Otherwise you're just living in denial & are doomed to repeat those same errors.

Time to expand upon those defensive horizons matey.

Sounds nice but the modern left just focuses on on all the so called mistakes of western society rather than its virtues . Can we also focus on the barbaric nature of other civisitations rather than the romanticized version we are given ?

Its silly to apply today's standards to yesterday, nature is a battle of survival were the strongest wins , we have nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Sounds nice but the modern left just focuses on on all the so called mistakes of western society rather than its virtues . Can we also focus on the barbaric nature of other civilizations rather than the romanticized version we are given ?

Its silly to apply today's standards to yesterday, nature is a battle of survival were the strongest wins , we have nothing to be ashamed of.

We focus upon our own errors as we have supposedly advanced, & moved on from that of barbarism or so-called primitive cultures.

That higher level & degree of self-conscious awareness that marks civilized cultures out, as opposed to the barbaric.

So, in effect....What you are criticizing is indeed a hallmark of an advanced culture & society....The self-awareness & self consciousness of learning from our own mistakes, of owning them, acknowledging them & moving past & beyond them, in growing as both an individual & society as a result.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Great conversation. Can you two take it to the conspiracy board.

 

[MaddAdam]

Yes I can.

Did you see that Indian politician and author on Q and A demolish that notion?

 

[MaddAdam]

Another attack on western civilisation by the left .

If it wasn't for western civilisation we wouldn't all be living the quality of life we currently live and the English played a key role in this .

Human civilisation like all forms of life is a competition were the strong conquer the week, the British were just the biggest and the strongest .

Lol, I'm "The Left" now.

 

[Bomberboyokay]

Did you see that Indian politician and author on Q and A demolish that notion?

No I didn't.

 

[Gough]

Another attack on western civilisation by the left .

If it wasn't for western civilisation we wouldn't all be living the quality of life we currently live and the English played a key role in this .

Human civilisation like all forms of life is a competition were the strong conquer the week, the British were just the biggest and the strongest .

I'm a dual British national, I lived in a town whose railway bridge was designed by Brunel and painted by Turner. I'm an anglophile, I've argued for devolution for the English, but you need to accept that some terrible things were done under the guise of "civilising" leading to consequences that are still being played out today. The Industrial Revolution and the Enlightenment are gifts that keep giving but you've got to take the good with the bad. Pointing out the bad as well as celebrating the good isn't an attack on western civilisation.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Great conversation. Can you two take it to the conspiracy board.

What on earth has the notion of balanced reflection got to do with conspiracy.

 

[King Brown]

Yes, and Hitler dramatically increased the living standards in Germany, as well.
It doesn't make the argument any less true, but there will always be those who run around saying Kill Bill should be eradicated from history and never shown again because Weinstein is an alleged rapist. It's extremely poor logic, but there will always be those who indulge in it.

Hitler’s probably up there in heaven wondering why he’s so loathed. The policy of Lebensraum was based on Manifest Destiny, and even the Nazis thought America’s policies on miscegenation and the “one drop” rules were extreme.

 

[smokingjacket]

You can't, but you also can't deny that communism did the same in Russia and China. Both were feudal backwaters populated by a large and extremely poor peasant class, that under the auspices of communism were transformed into industrial and military superpowers. China is now largest economy in the world.

So the argument that the price of Empire (tens of millions of deaths) was worth paying for the eventual transformation of those countries could easily be said about Mao. Gotta break some eggs to make an omelette.

With a couple of major differences. The Soviet Union and PRC were modernising their countries to improve the living standards of its people and become a stronger state. The British Empire was based on a trading company and essentially asset stripped India as an example. Infrastructure was put in place but only to take raw resources back to the UK. Hardly any industrialisation was done in the colonies, Australia included. India was less literate and poorer at the end of the Raj than when the British arrived, essentially the opposite of the Soviet Union where, take for example Tajikistan had a literacy rate of 0.5% in 1897, by 1950 they had achieved full literacy of men AND women. This is compared to Indian, Iranian and Turkish literacy rates of 20% in the same period.

 

[King Brown]

With a couple of major differences. The Soviet Union and PRC were modernising their countries to improve the living standards of its people and become a stronger state. The British Empire was based on a trading company and essentially asset stripped India as an example. Infrastructure was put in place but only to take raw resources back to the UK. Hardly any industrialisation was done in the colonies, Australia included. India was less literate and poorer at the end of the Raj than when the British arrived, essentially the opposite of the Soviet Union where, take for example Tajikistan had a literacy rate of 0.5% in 1897, by 1950 they had achieved full literacy of men AND women. This is compared to Indian, Iranian and Turkish literacy rates of 20% in the same period.

I was being kind to the Anglophiles.

Always amuses me when I read an Australian say "Stalin killed all his political dissidents or sent them to gulags in Siberia". Umm, where do you think the Chartists and Irish Republicans were sent (if they were lucky).

 

[smokingjacket]

I was being kind to the Anglophiles.

Always amuses me when I read an Australian say "Stalin killed all his political dissidents or sent them to gulags in Siberia". Umm, where do you think the Chartists and Irish Republicans were sent (if they were lucky).

Had a good chuckle to that. Did Clive James say Australia was the first gulag? Fair enough, but I don't think it's required to be honest. Anglophiles already have their prejudices nurtured by the dominant culture and the BBC academia set which is very imperialism-lite. The recently aired, East India Company centered Raj piece from Dan Snow was a whitewashing masterpiece.

 

[MaddAdam]

Boris Johnson's comments about the woman being held in Iran.

Britsih history in Persia - overthrow of Mossadegh etc - worth a few pages in itself.

 

[Seeds]

Yes I can.

No you cant. Its basically an impossible question to answer. What the english have done has been reprehensible in many parts of the world. But if the english empire didnt exist you can be pretty certain many parts of the world today would be worse than they are currently. If the English empire didnt conquer North America then the spanish and portuguese would have and North America today would be no different then Latin America. Probably worse. In fact the conservative highly religious Spanish empire would probably be the dominating world empire today and we are far less likely to be living in a liberal democratic scientific world if that was the result.

 

[Procrastinator35]

No you cant. Its basically an impossible question to answer. What the English have done has been reprehensible in many parts of the world. But if the English empire didn't exist you can be pretty certain many parts of the world today would be worse than they are currently. If the English empire didn't conquer North America then the Spanish and Portuguese would have and North America today would be no different then Latin America. In fact the conservative highly religious Spanish empire would probably be the dominating world empire today and we are far less likely to be living in a liberal democratic scientific world if that was the result.

Don't forget the Frogs with the Louisiana purchase & Canada.

 

[randyzany]

No you cant. Its basically an impossible question to answer. What the english have done has been reprehensible in many parts of the world. But if the english empire didnt exist you can be pretty certain many parts of the world today would be worse than they are currently. If the English empire didnt conquer North America then the spanish and portuguese would have and North America today would be no different then Latin America. Probably worse. In fact the conservative highly religious Spanish empire would probably be the dominating world empire today and we are far less likely to be living in a liberal democratic scientific world if that was the result.

The Spanish 'lost' their so-called colonies centuries ago. Had the English not colonised North America, Spain's influence wouldn't be any greater than it what it currently is. Their hold/claim on the American colonies were always somewhat flimsy and gave them up in their early 1800s without much of a fight.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The Spanish 'lost' their so-called colonies centuries ago. Had the English not colonised North America, Spain's influence wouldn't be any greater than it what it currently is. Their hold/claim on the American colonies were always somewhat flimsy and gave them up in their early 1800s without much of a fight.

The Alamo?....Mexico?....New Mexico, Texas, San Antonio, Las Angeles, Las Vegas et al?.....The Spanish influence upon the South West coast of the U.S was rather largess I'd of thought.....Not to mention Central & South America.

 

[randyzany]

They would eventually have become independent of Spain as well in much the same way that happened elsewhere. My post was mainly in response to this:

In fact the conservative highly religious Spanish empire would probably be the dominating world empire today

IF the English didn't colonise North America I just don't see how that would have resulted in Spain becoming the dominating power in 2017. My point is that they would have the same amount of power they currently have. They couldn't control the ones they had in the early 1800s so I fail to see how they would've managed to keep even more colonies.

 

[King Brown]

The Spanish 'lost' their so-called colonies centuries ago. Had the English not colonised North America, Spain's influence wouldn't be any greater than it what it currently is. Their hold/claim on the American colonies were always somewhat flimsy and gave them up in their early 1800s without much of a fight.

The French would have taken North America.

 

[Dadadadaaaaaa]

A thread for the identification of, discussion of, general talking about, the dark actions past and present of the United Kingdom, a political construct masquerading as a legitimate entity, but which is in fact but a blood soaked English empire on the islands off the northwest coast of the European continent.

We begin with the collaboration between British intelligence and Gaddafi in the 2000s. In which the Brits rendered people to be tortured by Gaddafi, did oil business with Gaddafi, helped Gaddafi back into international legitimacy, and then proceeded to overthrow him.



https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/09/how-britain-did-gaddafis-dirty-work-libya

"British Empire", get it right
Anyway the world wouldn't be civilised and we wouldn't be enjoying British culture and probably be living in poverty without it. I'd be grateful if I were you....

 

[Admiral Byng]

Empire is of itself brutal and oppressive.

The British were brutal and opprssive, but not quite as bad as the Spanish or the French. The Belgians probably take the prize for most bastardly empire campaigners. I don't know enough about the Germans or the Dutch.

 

[Lethality]