Which team is in most trouble age wise - 2018 edition

[Damon_3388]

Yes probably, but I think that'd also be true of just about every team.

Perhaps, but then that would indicate that just looking at the age of the list is a bit misleading, wouldn't it?

7 of the top 10 in our B&F last year were under the age of 25, and the three that weren't (26-year-old Steele Sidebottom, 27-year-old Jeremy Howe, and 30-year-old Scott Pendlebury) are hardly "done" or anywhere near "on the decline" (Pendlebury was as good as ever, but ended up missing 6 games on the back end of the year with a broken finger, which isn't going to affect his form or fitness in 2018).

You're acting like the Pies are trotting out Dad's Army, or are especially reliant older players (a la North Melbourne of 2015-2016), when they aren't. I honestly wouldn't have Travis Varcoe (supremely overrated), Chris Mayne, Levi Greenwood or Jarryd Blair in our best 22 with everyone fit, but they're OK options as the 19th-25th player on your list. You're lucky to get 10-15 games a year out of Daniel Wells and Ben Reid, but they're good players when fit. Lynden Dunn, Tyson Goldsack and Scott Pendlebury all performed well in their roles when fit in 2017 too (Dunn and Goldsack had what were arguably career-best seasons in defense). That's the sum of the players on our list over the age of 27 - nine players. It's a mix of role players, injury-prone talents and our captain and superstar. It's not half of our clear best 22.

If anyone actually watched Collingwood in 2017, they'll know that they played some very good and very bad football, and a lot of that was due to being a fairly young and raw side with a lot of players still learning the game and the gameplan, and working out where they fit at AFL level. It's not (and really never has been) Buckley coaching a older premiership list into the ground.

 

[TwentyNine]

Perhaps, but then that would indicate that just looking at the age of the list is a bit misleading, wouldn't it?

7 of the top 10 in our B&F last year were under the age of 25, and the three that weren't (26-year-old Steele Sidebottom, 27-year-old Jeremy Howe, and 30-year-old Scott Pendlebury) are hardly "done" or anywhere near "on the decline" (Pendlebury was as good as ever, but ended up missing 6 games on the back end of the year with a broken finger, which isn't going to affect his form or fitness in 2018).

You're acting like the Pies are trotting out Dad's Army, or are especially reliant older players (a la North Melbourne of 2015-2016), when they aren't. I honestly wouldn't have Travis Varcoe (supremely overrated), Chris Mayne, Levi Greenwood or Jarryd Blair in our best 22 with everyone fit, but they're OK options as the 19th-25th player on your list. You're lucky to get 10-15 games a year out of Daniel Wells and Ben Reid, but they're good players when fit. Lynden Dunn, Tyson Goldsack and Scott Pendlebury all performed well in their roles when fit in 2017 too (Dunn and Goldsack had what were arguably career-best seasons in defense). That's the sum of the players on our list over the age of 27 - nine players. It's a mix of role players, injury-prone talents and our captain and superstar. It's not half of our clear best 22.

If anyone actually watched Collingwood in 2017, they'll know that they played some very good and very bad football, and a lot of that was due to being a fairly young and raw side with a lot of players still learning the game and the gameplan, and working out where they fit at AFL level. It's not (and really never has been) Buckley coaching a older premiership list into the ground.

A lot of good points in there and I don't disagree too much with what you're saying. The inflated list age is arguably more due to the heavy focus on trading in players in recent years than being overbalanced with veteran players, ala Hawthorn. That represents a concern of its own, of course, since the Pies have arguably put more time and energy into your Maynes and your Varcoes than they have drafting and developing - certainly too much.

 

[Haggard H]

While it's nice to be reigning premiers and the only team with no player over 30 at the beginning of the year, four of our five 29 year old's are crucial players: Hampson 29.9, Grigg 29.8, Houli 29.7, Edwards 29.2, Riewoldt 29.2

Hopefully our 2017 draftees have these guys covered in three years' time.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

While it's nice to be reigning premiers and the only team with no player over 30 at the beginning of the year, four of our five 29 year old's are crucial players: Hampson 29.9, Grigg 29.8, Houli 29.7, Edwards 29.2, Riewoldt 29.2

Hopefully our 2017 draftees have these guys covered in three years' time.

Hampson, Edwards and Grigg are replaceable, the latter two are useful footballers, but aren't your top-liners, Houli and Riewoldt would be big losses though.

 

[Vindicater]

Hampson, Edwards and Grigg are replaceable, the latter two are useful footballers, but aren't your top-liners, Houli and Riewoldt would be big losses though.

Edwards will be a big loss.

Almost criminally underrated on these boards.

 

[Dr Tigris]

While it's nice to be reigning premiers and the only team with no player over 30 at the beginning of the year, four of our five 29 year old's are crucial players: Hampson 29.9, Grigg 29.8, Houli 29.7, Edwards 29.2, Riewoldt 29.2

Hopefully our 2017 draftees have these guys covered in three years' time.

very true. Hampson - no problems. Grigg - as a footballer should be covered, as an on field leader very very hard. Houli - able to be covered, but at the same level? Edwards - we can probably cover him for talent (Rioli, Bolton, Higgins), but he is a damn good player and leader, and replacing him with similar quality isn't easy. Riewoldt - unlikely to cover with same level of talent, but might cover his role with what we've got by 3 years time. Given I rate Jack as about the most important player structurally in the Premiership team he is a (probably the) major issue the tigers face.

 

[schmuttt]

While it's nice to be reigning premiers and the only team with no player over 30 at the beginning of the year, four of our five 29 year old's are crucial players: Hampson 29.9, Grigg 29.8, Houli 29.7, Edwards 29.2, Riewoldt 29.2

Hopefully our 2017 draftees have these guys covered in three years' time.

I think you’ll be thereabouts again in 2018 but geez a bad injury to Riewoldt would hurt Richmond. He is such a valuable player, not many KPFs could make the 5 small forward setup work but he is smart enough on top of his considerable talent to make it work.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I think you’ll be thereabouts again in 2018 but geez a bad injury to Riewoldt would hurt Richmond. He is such a valuable player, not many KPFs could make the 5 small forward setup work but he is smart enough on top of his considerable talent to make it work.

Actually its Rance not reiwoldt that is most important

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Hawkins turns 30yo in 6 months, he ain't carrying around that massive frame of his at 34yo+ at AFL level I wouldn't have thought.

Lockett played until was 33 then made a comeback at 36 and he was considerably bigger in stature.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Lockett played until was 33 then made a comeback at 36 and he was considerably bigger in stature.

I dare say if Lockett was playing for Geelong this year you would win the premiership. I am not so sure with Hawkins

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I dare say if Lockett was playing for Geelong this year you would win the premiership. I am not so sure with Hawkins

We only need a minor tweak in the game plan come finals time to be more competitive in September.

Hawkins plays his role well with next to no help both with delivery. He's often double teamed due to our lack of another tall presence. Having Ablett back will help immensely.

1. He's a good ball user.

2. We won't be as slow and stagnant, particularly now that Lonergan and Mackie have passed on and we'll have a smaller defensive set-up.

Overusing the handball is our biggest issue. Watch the Sydney final in comparison to the others we play. The stats also back up my observations.

 

[Damon_3388]

I dare say if Lockett was playing for Geelong this year you would win the premiership. I am not so sure with Hawkins

I wouldn't say Hawkins is a problem for them at all. His workrate in the finals in particular was top-notch. Just doesn't have enough help in that forward line.

 

[TheFourPillars]

I wouldn't say Hawkins is a problem for them at all. His workrate in the finals in particular was top-notch. Just doesn't have enough help in that forward line.

Yep I agree but the reference was to age and how Lockett played till he was 36 and that is what I was responding to.

 

[Damon_3388]

Yep I agree but the reference was to age and how Lockett played till he was 36 and that is what I was responding to.

Well, Lockett did have two years off, and the comeback was a bit of a failure, despite him getting his weight down and getting into probably the best physical shape of his career.

Still, unless there's a major injury or sharp decline, I'm confident that Hawkins can play another 3-4 seasons, through ages 32-33, which would be a fine 14-15 year career.

We've probably seen Hawkins' best years, and he's only a year younger than Travis Cloke (a more recent, similar type), but so far has aged a lot better (Cloke began to decline in 2014, after what was arguably his career-best year at age 26 in 2013), so I'd back Hawkins to continue for a while yet.

 

[Ambrosia]

Adding Stringer, Saad and Smith has done wonders for the age profile of our list on paper. Will be interesting to see how it works out in practice.

 

[TigerTime88]

Collingwood

They are not good enough at the moment. As they get better Reid and Pendles will retire keeping them in the middle tier never being able to move up or truly bottom out.


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[Vindicater]

Adding Stringer, Saad and Smith has done wonders for the age profile of our list on paper. Will be interesting to see how it works out in practice.

Losing Stanton, Howlett and Bird also helped in terms of age.