Society/Culture Feminism - 2017 Thread - Pt II

[ShanDog]

Its more of a Primary School issue isn't it?

I think there are plenty of male high school teachers.

There's relatively more male teachers in high schools but I think it's slightly less than 50%. Definitely not as much of an issue, if one at all.

 

[ShanDog]

Just found a national report from 2015 and it states that 8 in 10 primary school teachers are female, and male teachers make up 43% of secondary school teachers.

Haven't read the whole thing but did see an interesting bit of info about secondary school teachers - men are overrepresented in IT, the sciences and maths (and in the latter two, a large portion are over 50 years old), where two thirds of English teachers and three quarters of language teachers are female.

Having troubles linking on the phone, but search 'ACER teacher workforce in Australia report' to find it.

 

[11sjw]

It's simply a numbers game - more females study teaching and apply for jobs.

Wasn't that line of thinking part of James Damore's memo explaining why more males are in tech?

Edit: I see that's been addressed.

 

[11sjw]

I don't see government programs aimed at getting more male nurses and teachers.

Here's a simple program, pay them similarly to what they'd earn as engineers etc.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I’m confused.

The Peterson-ites argue that certain genders are meant for certain jobs, then cry discrimination when females make up what is seen as a female job.

Are there any jobs you think women should have?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Snake_Baker]

I don't think this is about gender, its about the politics that accompany this demographic.

 

[CatFan79]

Here's a simple program, pay them similarly to what they'd earn as engineers etc.

So simple, right. So tell me exactly how that would work?

Do you understand the concept of supply and demand BTW?

 

[ShanDog]

Wasn't that line of thinking part of James Damore's memo explaining why more males are in tech?

Edit: I see that's been addressed.

In short, yes, but also trying to address why that's the case and what can be done about it. Apparently, this is sexist and/or misogynistic stereotyping though...

 

[CatFan79]

I’m confused.

The Peterson-ites argue that certain genders are meant for certain jobs, then cry discrimination when females make up what is seen as a female job.

Are there any jobs you think women should have?

You're confusing yourself. Who's crying?

I just pointed out there isn't the same push to get men into occupations dominated by women. You disagree?

Women should do whatever job they want to do but the fact is, the majority of them don't want to do STEM work.

 

[ShanDog]

I’m confused.

The Peterson-ites argue that certain genders are meant for certain jobs, then cry discrimination when females make up what is seen as a female job.

Are there any jobs you think women should have?


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don't know that anyone is arguing they are MEANT for jobs, if the inference is that means that's what they should stick to. Because that's certainly not the case, and it wasn't the objective of Damore's paper/memo either, despite how some people want to frame it. Peterson made it quite clear in his interview with Cathy Newman that presenting the data is quite different to making an argument like that, and that helping women (or maybe in the case of teaching, helping men) to improve their chances of succeeding in industries is a benefit to all.

 

[the_interloper]

Yeah I know. But I was. I'd been handling classes of 40-50 non-English speaking kids on my own for years, so that job was a piece of cake.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

You're confusing yourself. Who's crying?

I just pointed out there isn't the same push to get men into occupations dominated by women. You disagree?

Women should do whatever job they want to do but the fact is, the majority of them don't want to do STEM work.

There is push for more male teachers.

The reason for less male teachers is intimately connected to gender construction. It’s seen as a more nurturing role that is built on personal relationships. It’s a more collaborative occupation, with little room for career advancement. Evidence of this is the lower % of male primary teachers compared to male high school teachers.

Interestingly you will see a higher % of males in leadership positions relative to overall % if staff.

There is no witch hunt of male teachers. That is simply bullshit.

 

[11sjw]

So simple, right. So tell me exactly how that would work?

Do you understand the concept of supply and demand BTW?

Yes. If someone knows they'll earn more in one profession than another and there isn't any particular passion for either which do you think they'll go for? Another way to look at it, if each state government said they were doubling the pay of teachers and it was going up another X% each year for the next decade do you not think that people would be trying to get into teaching?

In saying that, a good STEM practitioner may not make a good STEM teacher.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I don't think this is about gender, its about the politics that accompany this demographic.

Not sure what you mean mate.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Not sure what you mean mate.

Teachers are spawned from universities and these are the hotbeds for "progressive/SJW/feminist/whatever" politics, so the propensity for those ideologies, combined with your own very good analysis of female nature, combines to allow those ideologies to comparatively flourish in this profession.

An interesting point is that your previous post (a very good post IMO), draws from anthropological constructs, which is Peterson's territory.

 

[Moshie The Mook]

The holidays are great but the money sucks.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Teachers are spawned from universities and these are the hotbeds for "progressive/SJW/feminist/whatever" politics, so the propensity for those ideologies, combined with your own very good analysis of female nature, combines to allow those ideologies to comparatively flourish in this profession.

An interesting point is that your previous post (a very good post IMO), draws from anthropological constructs, which is Peterson's territory.

Here’s where we will disagree. I don’t think unis are political anymore, and the small % of uni students who are, aren’t going on to teachers. The right wingers are progressing to be sycophantic staffers to liberals and lefty kids will progress to eventually trying to punch said right wingers.

I have 3 relatives who are teachers, and it’s a very depoliticised profession. They seem like occupational training grounds, especially now how some are picking up what tafes used to do.

 

[roscreasl98]

There is push for more male teachers.

The reason for less male teachers is intimately connected to gender construction. It’s seen as a more nurturing role that is built on personal relationships. It’s a more collaborative occupation, with little room for career advancement. Evidence of this is the lower % of male primary teachers compared to male high school teachers.

Interestingly you will see a higher % of males in leadership positions relative to overall % if staff.

There is no witch hunt of male teachers. That is simply bullshit.

That's where you are wrong.

The male teacher witch hunt was rife in the late 1990's, early 2000's.
Litigious parents would blame them for everything that happened in the classroom and in the playground.

A male teacher couldn't console an injured, or upset child without being accused of a criminal offence. Parents would refuse to have their children attend any classes where a male teacher was present.

Male teacher numbers dropped off dramatically as a result......

 

[Snake_Baker]

Here’s where we will disagree. I don’t think unis are political anymore, and the small % of uni students who are, aren’t going on to teachers. The right wingers are progressing to be sycophantic staffers to liberals and lefty kids will progress to eventually trying to punch said right wingers.

I have 3 relatives who are teachers, and it’s a very depoliticised profession. They seem like occupational training grounds, especially now how some are picking up what tafes used to do.

You're comparing teachers with teachers and I am comparing teachers with general professions.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

That's where you are wrong.

The male teacher witch hunt was rife in the late 1990's, early 2000's.
Litigious parents would blame them for everything that happened in the classroom and in the playground.

A male teacher couldn't console an injured, or upset child without being accused of a criminal offence. Parents would refuse to have their children attend any classes where a male teacher was present.

Male teacher numbers dropped off dramatically as a result......

Do you have any examples of this?

There was a justified reaction to historical sex offenses committed in overwhelming numbers by male members of the church, but I have not see any examples in the media of males targeted specifically for being male.

You making statements like "A male teacher couldn't console an injured, or upset child without being accused of a criminal offence. Parents would refuse to have their children attend any classes where a male teacher was present" which is such blatantly obvious bull shit does not help your argument.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Do you have any examples of this?

Personal experience with teachers and the proliferation of humanities in education over the past decades.

There was a justified reaction to historical sex offenses committed in overwhelming numbers by male members of the church, but I have not see any examples in the media of males targeted specifically for being male.

What social progressions are the church promoting? They are actually against such things, and if you're going to go down that path mate, then nuns keep lots of dodgy shit quiet also..

You making statements like "A male teacher couldn't console an injured, or upset child without being accused of a criminal offence. Parents would refuse to have their children attend any classes where a male teacher was present" which is such blatantly obvious bull shit does not help your argument.

Well, these are silly statements and I actually agreed with you when you knocked them out of the park.

I don't in any way agree with the original comments that brought this thread in this current direction. I made an overall observation related to the profession.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Personal experience with teachers and the proliferation of humanities in education over the past decades.

I meant evidence of a male witch hunt in that profession.

What social progressions are the church promoting? They are actually against such things, and if you're going to go down that path mate, then nuns keep lots of dodgy shit quiet also..

On the surface level, they're big on cultural diversity (although we'd agree on why that is) and indigenous rights, economic inequality. Not sure how we got on to this though. Yeah of course there were nuns, but the overwhelming % of institutionalized sexual violence we know about was committed by male members of the church.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I meant evidence of a male witch hunt in that profession.

I'm not going to engage in a comparison between child sexual abuse in a religious environment as an opposing argument to the professional creep of SJW ideology.

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

I'm not going to engage in a comparison between child sexual abuse in a religious environment as an opposing argument to the professional creep of SJW ideology.

I didn't think we were, unless I got lost in the chain.

 

[roscreasl98]

Do you have any examples of this?

There was a justified reaction to historical sex offenses committed in overwhelming numbers by male members of the church, but I have not see any examples in the media of males targeted specifically for being male.

You making statements like "A male teacher couldn't console an injured, or upset child without being accused of a criminal offence. Parents would refuse to have their children attend any classes where a male teacher was present" which is such blatantly obvious bull shit does not help your argument.

Only that I have 6 brothers and cousins that WERE Primary School teachers.


Facts, not "blatant bullshit", which seems to be your go to response when you are wrong ie regularly......

Parents, and non supportive headmasters ruined careers.

And in the State system btw, non denominational, bet that hurts KV......