If Rioli and Tom Mitchell stay healthy in 2018......

[gbatman]

Still think they are rebuilding and will need their engine room depth/quality upped and some young and fresh pace to the side. They might not be too far away, see what comes through. Think Rioli, Mitchell and O'Meara will need a big season.

 

[hk89]

Yeah, I think I've already told you that your pretty clueless about this caper.

Yes, while at the same time telling us how Gunston was playing as a key defender in the backline. What you lack in knowledge you make up for with the lols. BTW, I'm no spelling bee winner myself, but you also misspelt 'you're' last time you called me clueless.

Where are your developing key defenders?

Given you've proven you can't tell the difference between a key defender and a half back flanker, I don't see much point in discussing this with you, but if you really want to know, Brand is probably our first in line as developing key defender. Conor Nash looks like he might be developed as a KPD, but hasn't played outside of AFLX (where he was our leading possession getter in the grand final). Has been named as emergency for the first JLT game. Heatherley has perhaps fallen somewhat out of favour after Brand's progress in 2017, but he's another. Tim O'Brien appears to have been named at full back for our first JLT game, so he should probably be considered in the mix for developing KPDs, but you probably see this versatility as a knock on our KPD stocks, given you don't seem to rate players who can be useful in multiple positions. Personally I find this odd when Kangaroos have so many players who are not even useful in one position.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Yes, while at the same time telling us how Gunston was playing as a key defender in the backline. What you lack in knowledge you make up for with the lols. BTW, I'm no spelling bee winner myself, but you also misspelt 'you're' last time you called me clueless.



Given you've proven you can't tell the difference between a key defender and a half back flanker, I don't see much point in discussing this with you, but if you really want to know, Brand is probably our first in line as developing key defender. Conor Nash looks like he might be developed as a KPD, but hasn't played outside of AFLX (where he was our leading possession getter in the grand final). Has been named as emergency for the first JLT game. Heatherley has perhaps fallen somewhat out of favour after Brand's progress in 2017, but he's another. Tim O'Brien appears to have been named at full back for our first JLT game, so he should probably be considered in the mix for developing KPDs, but you probably see this versatility as a knock on our KPD stocks, given you don't seem to rate players who can be useful in multiple positions. Personally I find this odd when Kangaroos have so many players who are not even useful in one position.

You don't have to waste your time replying to me son.

 

[Back One Out]

You don't have to waste your time replying to me son.

Let me guess... The Hawks are in deep s**t and will overtaken by the up 'n' coming Kangas before too long?

Weren't you the guy who (under another nic back in 2007) used to post about how overrated Sam Mitchell was and not as good as Daniel Harris ?

 

[Snake_Baker]

Let me guess... The Hawks are in deep s**t and will overtaken by the up 'n' coming Kangas before too long?

We have hit the bottom. Hawthorn hasn't.

 

[Back One Out]

We have hit the bottom. Hawthorn hasn't.

Should be fun times ahead then for all you Hawk-bashers

I still don't follow these predictions about us collapsing in 2018 when he had a lot of good players miss >12 games in 2017 because of injures and we still managed to finish just outside the Top 8 with a 10-11-1 W/L record (without the benefit of an easy fixture.)

We'll get those injured players back, plus we'll have a bunch of young players who've had a taste of AFL footy and will be better with another pre-season under their belts. I don't think we'll challenge for the flag, but I don't think we'll be as bad as some people think. It's just wishful thinking from many folks. Understandable that people would be jealous of our success and would love to see us on the bottom so they can froth and snarl their meaningless diatribes (as though that's going to somehow help their own shabby clubs win an elusive flag)

The Hawks are in transition. It'll be interesting to see what the next few years hold in store. I'm just eternally thankful that we had a 10 year window of opportunity and managed to snare 4 premierships in that time. Unbelievable! That's as many as North have won over 93 years in the AFL/VFL. We could finish last for the next 5 years in a row and I'd still be happy.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Hawk Basher (slang) : The telling of uncomfortable truths about the Hawthorn F.C.

 

[SA HAWK]

We have hit the bottom. Hawthorn hasn't.

Maybe not i guess time will tell.

You never know whats going to happen with free agency around now.

 

[Scotland]

Hawk Basher (slang) : The telling of uncomfortable truths about the Hawthorn F.C.

Most of the posts ITT are quoting opposition posters to play the man. It's all hater this, obsession that and very little actual discussion about footy. Sad really. Apparently the only thing that matters is which club you go for.

 

[hk89]

Weren't you the guy who (under another nic back in 2007) used to post about how overrated Sam Mitchell was and not as good as Daniel Harris ?

Seems to have gone down hill then. At least he was comparing Mitchell to another midfielder. These days he'd be complaining that Mitchell wasn't getting enough hitouts, such is his confusion about which position is which.

 

[Back One Out]

Hawk Basher (slang) : The telling of uncomfortable truths about the Hawthorn F.C.

If you think Hawthorn will finish on the bottom, then you should plonk all of your hard-earned money on us to win the spoon

Here's the current Sportsbet betting market for "least wins"
Knock yourself out. (Just remember to thank me when you collect)

$2.85_Gold Coast
$4.00_Brisbane, North Melb
$4.50_Carlton
$8.00_Fremantle
$21.00 St Kilda, Hawthorn
$26.00 West Coast, Collingwood
$51.00 Essendon, Melbourne, W.Bulldogs
$81.00 Port Adelaide

 

[KermitJagger]

This just reminds me of the conjecture about who was under more pressure, Collingwood or Richmond after Richmond finished 13th.

Dusty was going to leave, Richmond were going to sack their coach, the world was going to fall apart. Memberships microwaved etc.

What happened? Richmond won the premiership. BigFooty 100% incorrect, as always.

 

[hk89]

This just reminds me of the conjecture about who was under more pressure, Collingwood or Richmond after Richmond finished 13th.

Dusty was going to leave, Richmond were going to sack their coach, the world was going to fall apart. Memberships microwaved etc.

What happened? Richmond won the premiership. BigFooty 100% incorrect, as always.

Important to remember which North Melbourne supporting poster was at the vanguard of the "Dusty was going to leave" cluelessness. Hawthorn fans should feel pretty comfortable with how we'll go this year when the oracle of all things wrong says we haven't hit bottom yet.

 

[Scotland]

'The bottom' and bottom of the ladder aren't the same thing. They can be, but they don't have to be.

Judging by those odds above the bookies expect Hawthorn to finish 12th or 13th. The same site has them $2.25 to make the 8 and 12th listed on the line of betting. Clearly Sportsbet aren't aware of the fabled 18 game streak of 2017. An easy way to double your money for anyone confident the Hawks will make the 8. No chance they win fewer games then all the teams quoted in single digits for least (fewest) wins.

 

[Rev08]

We have hit the bottom. Hawthorn hasn't.

I love that you think you’ve hit bottom. Could be a nasty surprise in store for you this year.

 

[WWSD]

Still think they are rebuilding and will need their engine room depth/quality upped and some young and fresh pace to the side. They might not be too far away, see what comes through. Think Rioli, Mitchell and O'Meara will need a big season.

The improvement will likely come from
Burton, Sicily, Hardwick, Brand, Howe, O’Brien, Glass, Lovell, Morrison etc.

I know that Hawthorn’s list isn’t as good as what it used to be, but if there’s one area in which the Hawks are building a solid unit it’s the back six led by Burton, Sicily, Brand and Hardwick.

He may not be rated that highly by opposition fans just yet, but don’t be surprised if Sicily is in the mix this year or next year for a spot on the half back flank in the All-Australian team. Since Round 11 last year he was number one in the league in contested marks amongst half backs flankers, number two in disposals only behind Docherty and number two in marks.

 

[Back One Out]

'The bottom' and bottom of the ladder aren't the same thing. They can be, but they don't have to be.

Judging by those odds above the bookies expect Hawthorn to finish 12th or 13th. The same site has them $2.25 to make the 8 and 12th listed on the line of betting. Clearly Sportsbet aren't aware of the fabled 18 game streak of 2017. An easy way to double your money for anyone confident the Hawks will make the 8. No chance they win fewer games then all the teams quoted in single digits for least (fewest) wins.

You've also got to factor in the bookies ALWAYS keeping Collingwood well under their true odds in futures betting markets. That's a given.

I accept there is a general air of pessimism about Hawthorn with the departures of Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Gibson since 2016 and the general feeling that their time is well and truly over, therefore it's about time they nosedived towards the bottom four. It's selling short what they achieved last year with a big injury list and a horror 0-4 / 1-5 start. Seems like people are dismissing the actual evidence of last year's results and just parroting the half-baked notion they're a team in decline.

Meanwhile clubs such as Essendon, Melbourne, St Kilda, Port and the Bulldogs are considered by their own fans to be young teams of destiny on the up and up. Aside from the Bulldogs amazing finals form in 2016, none of them have really done much to suggest they'll be that much better than the Hawks in 2018. It's just perception. You could probably chuck West Coast into the mix with those others as well.

 

[Scotland]

Why are North going to go further backwards? 6 wins last year and already a bottom 4 side.

Syd Barker Medal Top 10:

Shaun Higgins 217 (30 this year)
Ben Cunnington 211 (27)
Ben Brown 209 (26)
Robbie Tarrant 204 (29)
Luke McDonald 192 (23)
Jack Ziebell 161 (27)
Sam Gibson 161 (32, de-listed)
Taylor Garner 134 (24)
Scott Thompson 126 (32)
Shaun Atley 125 (26)

Half their 2016 EF side is already gone. They've had their pain in that regard. Already going to be fielding a 1500-2000 game team.

 

[Snake_Baker]

I love that you think you’ve hit bottom. Could be a nasty surprise in store for you this year.

If Lukosius is a "nasty surprise" then I hope I get one again next year.

 

[Snake_Baker]

$4.00_North Melb
$21.00 Hawthorn

I don't know what part of......

We have hit the bottom. Hawthorn hasn't.

....you don't understand.

Is every second Hawthorn supporter on this website a 14 year old?

 

[Slysh]

'The bottom' and bottom of the ladder aren't the same thing. They can be, but they don't have to be.

Judging by those odds above the bookies expect Hawthorn to finish 12th or 13th. The same site has them $2.25 to make the 8 and 12th listed on the line of betting. Clearly Sportsbet aren't aware of the fabled 18 game streak of 2017. An easy way to double your money for anyone confident the Hawks will make the 8. No chance they win fewer games then all the teams quoted in single digits for least (fewest) wins.

Oh mate, you think that where the bookies think we will finish means anything? Come on... That is a very weak argument.

 

[RUNVS]

In some ways I think it would be better for Hawthorn to fall to near the bottom of the ladder for a few years, just so they can get access to some top of the line kids in the next few drafts. Teams like North Melbourne and Essendon know what it is like to be a team that is stuck in the 7th to 12th range, as they don't tend to get worse, but they don't get better either. They just seem to hover in that range because they are not good enough for a premiership, but too good for the really good draft picks. Hawthorn's 4 premierships were built off a few years at the bottom of the ladder where they did some excellent drafting.

Still, if any team can break out of that range and into the top 4 again really quickly it is the Hawks.

 

[Scotland]

You've also got to factor in the bookies ALWAYS keeping Collingwood well under their true odds in futures betting markets. That's a given.

I accept there is a general air of pessimism about Hawthorn with the departures of Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis and Gibson since 2016 and the general feeling that their time is well and truly over, therefore it's about time they nosedived towards the bottom four. It's selling short what they achieved last year with a big injury list and a horror 0-4 / 1-5 start. Seems like people are dismissing the actual evidence of last year's results and just parroting the half-baked notion they're a team in decline.

Meanwhile clubs such as Essendon, Melbourne, St Kilda, Port and the Bulldogs are considered by their own fans to be young teams of destiny on the up and up. Aside from the Bulldogs amazing finals form in 2016, none of them have really done much to suggest they'll be that much better than the Hawks in 2018. It's just perception. You could probably chuck West Coast into the mix with those others as well.

I don't put that much stock in odds (we are favoured to win more games than you but you are more favoured to make the finals, righto).

The reality is that no one outside Hawthorn supporters really rates the 'achievements' of 2017. Every team has injuries, and plenty of teams have slow starts. Sydney turned 0-6 into a SF appearance which has people bullish about their chances than a team that turned 0-4 into 10 wins. If the bookies rated the Hawthorn turnaround they wouldn't be pricing them as a 12th/13th team.

Those clubs you mentioned (excl. Bulldogs with a big fat hangover) were better in 2017 than 2016 and have young teams on the up. You can dress it up as '7th best over 18 rounds' but Hawthorn still went from 17 wins to 10 then lost Hodge and Gibson (who wasn't a factor). Meanwhile Essendon got their players back and played finals then added 3 Ss, Melbourne are finally not s**t, Port played finals and added Motlop and Rockliff. Etc. St Kilda meh, not sure what they're doing. This is what frames the markets.

Collingwood will probably be good this year simply because they've been talked up enough times and been s**t and now most people have lost interest.

 

[Snake_Baker]

In some ways I think it would be better for Hawthorn to fall to near the bottom of the ladder for a few years, just so they can get access to some top of the line kids in the next few drafts. Teams like North Melbourne and Essendon know what it is like to be a team that is stuck in the 7th to 12th range, as they don't tend to get worse, but they don't get better either. They just seem to hover in that range because they are not good enough for a premiership, but too good for the really good draft picks. Hawthorn's 4 premierships were built off a few years at the bottom of the ladder where they did some excellent drafting.

Still, if any team can break out of that range and into the top 4 again really quickly it is the Hawks.

By christ you spout some crap.

 

[Slysh]

Why are North going to go further backwards? 6 wins last year and already a bottom 4 side.

Syd Barker Medal Top 10:

Shaun Higgins 217 (30 this year)
Ben Cunnington 211 (27)
Ben Brown 209 (26)
Robbie Tarrant 204 (29)
Luke McDonald 192 (23)
Jack Ziebell 161 (27)
Sam Gibson 161 (32, de-listed)
Taylor Garner 134 (24)
Scott Thompson 126 (32)
Shaun Atley 125 (26)

Half their 2016 EF side is already gone. They've had their pain in that regard. Already going to be fielding a 1500-2000 game team.

Yea but you have to ask where the improvement is going to come from as well. Will they go backwards? Maybe not, but they were also one loss in round 23 away from the wooden spoon so that isn't saying much.