Universal Love The Drugs Are Bad Mackay? approved Australian cricketers are cheats Discussion Thread

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

This is contrary to what most people are saying, but as a former lawyer I don’t agree that Warner has been “poorly advised”

(Just to be clear - I’m not defending anything he did in anyway. Based on the little we know it appears that he deserves what he gets)

If his press conference goal was to seek forgiveness in the hope of playing again - as it was with Bancroft and Smith - then sure, he should have said more.

But unlike those two players, and as he seems to acknowledge, he’s probably got little chance of playing top level cricket again

Hence his strategy is to protect himself on three levels

Family - he may have decided that the abuse his family will have to put up with if he doesn’t say enough is less than the abuse they’ll have to put up with if he tells all. He could be wrong about that, but can’t blame him for trying to protect his wife and children

Money - his income has collapsed and unlike the other two his chances of reviving it seem slim. Meanwhile Cricket Australia have lost millions over this. Potentially, if they think he’s the culprit they might look to sue him to recover some of their loss. In that situation he’s only going to say the minimum at this time. He’s not going to comment on whether he’s done it before or how he knew what to do or what actually transpired

Power - there’s a review coming up and information is power. What he knows about who else did what or knew what could be of use to him at some point. Same with the possibility of an appeal. He’s keeping his powder dry to maximize his leverage as he moves into uncertain situations

Again, I’m not defending him but I can see what his advisers have perhaps told him. If it turns out he is in fact the main instigator then apologise profusely but otherwise saying the minimum at this stage is a sound legal strategy

Agree 100%

He's obviously a dummy and sounded like an imbecile repeating those statements but I reckon his lawyer has mapped out a path back for him. And this played into it.

 

[Doctor B]

In all other ball tampering instances that have come to light over the last 10 years or so.

How does the severity of what we did stack up to the majority of the other ball tampering, lollies, fingernails, dirt in pockets, Afridi biting etc.?

What have been the harshest punishments handed out by the ICC and the individual countries own cricket board on the guilty players?

How much will Smith lose from being banned from the IPL tournament plus his individual sponsorships?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

In all other ball tampering instances that have come to light over the last 10 years or so.

How does the severity of what we did stack up to the majority of the other ball tampering, lollies, fingernails, dirt in pockets, Afridi biting etc.?

What have been the harshest punishments handed out by the ICC and the individual countries own cricket board on the guilty players?

How much will Smith lose from being banned from the IPL tournament plus his individual sponsorships?

IIRC the harshest penalty allowed by the ICC code of conduct is 1 match

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Agree 100%

He's obviously a dummy and sounded like an imbecile repeating those statements but I reckon his lawyer has mapped out a path back for him. And this played into it.

Try this ...
David Warner: Roxy Jacenko hired to represent wife amid cricket ...
www.news.com.au/sport/...wife...jacenko.../d802375950ceb2ce0f262b1e43226e7e
22 hours ago - DISGRACED cricket star David Warner is at the centre of one of the biggest cheating scandals the sport has ever seen so it was always going to be a challenge for any publicist to help pull him and his family out of it

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

In all other ball tampering instances that have come to light over the last 10 years or so.

How does the severity of what we did stack up to the majority of the other ball tampering, lollies, fingernails, dirt in pockets, Afridi biting etc.?

What have been the harshest punishments handed out by the ICC and the individual countries own cricket board on the guilty players?

How much will Smith lose from being banned from the IPL tournament plus his individual sponsorships?

The ball itself wasn't changed, so they weren't very successful & I think the gig was up quickly.

The ICC have been pathetic with previous penalties. Don't think anyone has been suspended for more than 1 test for ball tampering. Think Afridi was given 2 ODI's for biting the ball. Don't think any other cricket board have increased the sanctions.

Both Smith & Warner lose $2.4 each from the IPL, but would be more than double that with other lost earnings.

It could cost CA hundreds of millions in less sponsorship, as the new TV rights are up for grabs & their major sponsor just quit.

Players pay rises will be much less, but I'm sure Sutherland will still give himself a good bonus for his reactionary leadership...

 

[GROTTO]

In all other ball tampering instances that have come to light over the last 10 years or so.

How does the severity of what we did stack up to the majority of the other ball tampering, lollies, fingernails, dirt in pockets, Afridi biting etc.?

What have been the harshest punishments handed out by the ICC and the individual countries own cricket board on the guilty players?

How much will Smith lose from being banned from the IPL tournament plus his individual sponsorships?

FFS show some respect. Pakistan is a poor country, Afridi thought he was eating an apple.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Try this ...
David Warner: Roxy Jacenko hired to represent wife amid cricket ...
www.news.com.au/sport/...wife...jacenko.../d802375950ceb2ce0f262b1e43226e7e
22 hours ago - DISGRACED cricket star David Warner is at the centre of one of the biggest cheating scandals the sport has ever seen so it was always going to be a challenge for any publicist to help pull him and his family out of it

I'll give the Warners some free advice.

Time to lie low for a while, as nothing you can say will improve the situation & anything you do say some will interpret badly.

 

[Doctor B]

IIRC the harshest penalty allowed by the ICC code of conduct is 1 match

I am just trying to work out some sort of sentencing guideline or punishment precedent etc. on the severity of punishment handed down to Smith & Co. compared to other international cricketers who have been found guilty of similar.

 

[CrowBloke]

This is contrary to what most people are saying, but as a former lawyer I don’t agree that Warner has been “poorly advised”

(Just to be clear - I’m not defending anything he did in anyway. Based on the little we know it appears that he deserves what he gets)

If his press conference goal was to seek forgiveness in the hope of playing again - as it was with Bancroft and Smith - then sure, he should have said more.

But unlike those two players, and as he seems to acknowledge, he’s probably got little chance of playing top level cricket again

Hence his strategy is to protect himself on three levels

Family - he may have decided that the abuse his family will have to put up with if he doesn’t say enough is less than the abuse they’ll have to put up with if he tells all. He could be wrong about that, but can’t blame him for trying to protect his wife and children

Money - his income has collapsed and unlike the other two his chances of reviving it seem slim. Meanwhile Cricket Australia have lost millions over this. Potentially, if they think he’s the culprit they might look to sue him to recover some of their loss. In that situation he’s only going to say the minimum at this time. He’s not going to comment on whether he’s done it before or how he knew what to do or what actually transpired

Power - there’s a review coming up and information is power. What he knows about who else did what or knew what could be of use to him at some point. Same with the possibility of an appeal. He’s keeping his powder dry to maximize his leverage as he moves into uncertain situations

Again, I’m not defending him but I can see what his advisers have perhaps told him. If it turns out he is in fact the main instigator then apologise profusely but otherwise saying the minimum at this stage is a sound legal strategy

Really good post, thanks. If you're right, what he said now makes sense.

 

[Doctor B]

The ball itself wasn't changed, so they weren't very successful & I think the gig was up quickly.

The ICC have been pathetic with previous penalties. Don't think anyone has been suspended for more than 1 test for ball tampering. Think Afridi was given 2 ODI's for biting the ball. Don't think any other cricket board have increased the sanctions.

Both Smith & Warner lose $2.4 each from the IPL, but would be more than double that with other lost earnings.

It could cost CA hundreds of millions in less sponsorship, as the new TV rights are up for grabs & their major sponsor just quit.

Players pay rises will be much less, but I'm sure Sutherland will still give himself a good bonus for his reactionary leadership...

Bay62

Have we punished them too harshly, comparing their punishments to previous ball tamperers who have had hardly any punishment for similar acts?
12 months, loss of CA contract, $2.4mil IPL contracts, sponsors, no cricket except club level etc.

Will this make it easier for them to mount a successful legal challenge to their sentences handed down by CA?

 

[CrowBloke]

1) How does the severity of what we did stack up to the majority of the other ball tampering, lollies, fingernails, dirt in pockets, Afridi biting etc.?
2) What have been the harshest punishments handed out by the ICC and the individual countries own cricket board on the guilty players?
3) How much will Smith lose from being banned from the IPL tournament plus his individual sponsorships?

1) It doesn't matter. All the comparisons mean is that the ICC and other countries' Boards (including ours) have been pissweak on the topic of ball-tampering. What they tolerated, they got more of, and it got worse and worse. If what our blokes did is no worse, the Australian public has expressed its disappointment, Australian Cricket is on the nose, and CA has acted to change things.
2) You can get heaps of data on this via Google.
3) Many millions. Some have estimated $30-40 million in his lifetime, maybe more. Warner, Bancroft and Smith have also cost CA (and their players who get a %) many millions in sponsorship eg Magellan have dropped their $20 million backing of CA.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Really good post, thanks. If you're right, what he said now makes sense.

But Warner should have said that he was limited in what he could respond to due the CA review before taking questions. Also, answering questions with an irrelevant answer was silly. May as well have not taken any questions.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Bay62

Have we punished them too harshly, comparing their punishments to previous ball tamperers who have had hardly any punishment for similar acts?
12 months, loss of CA contract, $2.4mil IPL contracts, sponsors, no cricket except club level etc.

Will this make it easier for them to mount a successful legal challenge to their sentences handed down by CA?

If they challenge CA, they can kiss future selection goodbye...

 

[CrowBloke]

Bay62
Please have a look at the Tweets in this:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricke...s/news-story/98fe6b11e1f27c5fca7fbd3df45a3f14
which mention some legalities, as you did.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Bay62
Please have a look at the Tweets in this:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricke...s/news-story/98fe6b11e1f27c5fca7fbd3df45a3f14
which mention some legalities, as you did.

I like Mike Smyth's take on it.

 

[1970crow]

Fun Easter in the Warner household:

Coming home today I walked into the room and I was in tears and our daughters were so upset. They were like ‘why you crying, Mummy?’

“I had to make an excuse and I was like, because you know I spoke to the Easter bunny and he’s not coming. It’s really hard to explain to kids and they don’t understand and they still see it as Mummy and Daddy but it’s hard, it’s really hard.”

Come on, that can't be right. Warner's lost his contract and the missus reckons it's her fault so they cancelled Easter on their toddlers. I guess at least she spoke to EB, rather than declaring him roadkill or something equally as horrible.

 

[1970crow]

I won't be reading any articles that quote Candice Warner about anything except whether Warner himself was the ringleader. That's the only thing she would know that I'm interested in.
This:

was directed at hey shorty, whom I respect. You, as well.
I have zero interest in what Candice Warner did over 10 years ago, when she was 22 and single.

Oh, sorry, missed that.

 

[1970crow]

The Easter Bunny isn't coming ?? What, you couldn't duck down to the shops and grab a couple of choccies for the kids ??

That's a pretty high level of self obsession.

 

[1970crow]

Not sure how I feel over the whole episode yet. However I find it interesting that no one has questioned why somebody would record SBW and Candice and then go on to publish it. It seems at times our culture has a toxic and negative aspect that completely disregards the long term effects that their actions have on others.

Footy players engaging in group stuff isn't exactly new. Filming it I'm not sure about, releasing would be illegal these days. Was it done before it was a crime.

 

[1970crow]

The Easter Bunny isn’t coming because we killed him and buried him in the yard kids, right next to the tooth Fairy and Santa

"Dad and especially me have been having a pretty difficult time in case you hadn't noticed, you inconsiderate little shits"

 

[SaltPeter]

Footy players engaging in group stuff isn't exactly new. Filming it I'm not sure about, releasing would be illegal these days. Was it done before it was a crime.

I don't know why, but for some reason I thought it was another chick who filmed and published? I cannot remember

I'm not sure about the group aspect in this instance either. SBW's seemed a little embarrassed about it, though for the most part he's either been given a free pass or a high five. Candice on the hand has been relentlessly **** shamed.

 

[1970crow]

I don't know why, but for some reason I thought it was another chick who filmed and published? I cannot remember

I'm not sure about the group aspect in this instance either. SBW's seemed a little embarrassed about it, though for the most part he's either been given a free pass or a high five. Candice on the hand has been relentlessly **** shamed.

Group was probably the wrong word as it implies multiple involved in acts. I more meant happy to engage whilst not entirely alone. I've missed this entire thing, I presume the shaming is done via social media. When I googled it, the first page was mainstream online papers, so there wasn't any specific reference or particular slant on the happenings. I didn't delve any further, got the gist, don't care and moved on.

 

[hey shorty]

I don't know why, but for some reason I thought it was another chick who filmed and published? I cannot remember

I'm not sure about the group aspect in this instance either. SBW's seemed a little embarrassed about it, though for the most part he's either been given a free pass or a high five. Candice on the hand has been relentlessly **** shamed.

Agreed On that point. Pretty poor form by both of them one would think

 

[Bay62]

Bay62
Please have a look at the Tweets in this:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/cricke...s/news-story/98fe6b11e1f27c5fca7fbd3df45a3f14
which mention some legalities, as you did.

Thanks for that. Certainly stirred up a hornets nest. Everyone would like to know exactly what happened, how and why, and hopefully it will all come out.

More so than the other two, it’s definitely not over for him yet

 

[SaltPeter]

Agreed On that point. Pretty poor form by both of them one would think

Young athletes who go out for drink and let their hair down a bit. Same thing is happening every weekend across night clubs in Australia. The Olympics committees have been on record sharing the monumental volume of condoms consumed by athletes during the games.

To err is human. I think the behaviour of South African cricket in regard to them seemingly condone the treatment of the wife of the touring VC (regardless of what anyone thinks of him), and the Australian media has been appalling.