Universal Love The Drugs Are Bad Mackay? approved Australian cricketers are cheats Discussion Thread

[Bay62]

Bay62

Have we punished them too harshly, comparing their punishments to previous ball tamperers who have had hardly any punishment for similar acts?
12 months, loss of CA contract, $2.4mil IPL contracts, sponsors, no cricket except club level etc.

Will this make it easier for them to mount a successful legal challenge to their sentences handed down by CA?

Sorry, been having Easter lunch

It’s certainly a lot bigger penalty than we’ve seen so far. No doubt partly in response to the public outrage at seeing the captain and vice captain involved, and in a premeditated way. But also because having the captain and vice captain involved clearly points to a failure of culture and system, which means we need to see it more seriously than previously.

I don’t know what the criteria are for CA to set penalties, or how that relates to the ICC penalties - except it seems that the ICC penalties were agreed by all countries, and now we have gone way beyond that, for the reasons referred to above.

What that means is it’s hard to know on what basis an appeal would succeed. CA going beyond their power to set a penalty? Maybe they have broad authority to set their own penalties.

So I’m not sure if the greater consequences on top of the actual penalty, as you have mentioned, make it easier to appeal - but I think it makes it more likely.

This penalty seems to wipe out Warner’s income and potential to restore it. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong, but it makes it more likely that he’ll take a chance on getting it reduced. I’m sure he’ll be weighing it up in the days ahead.

I think it’s less likely that the other two will appeal, because I think they both have greater potential to restore their income (or at least part of it) once they’ve served the penalty. And their ability to realise that potential depends largely on public goodwill, which they’ve gone a long way to restoring with their unconditional apologies and the fact that they were well liked beforehand - or not as disliked as Warner.

Warner though may have nothing to lose and everything to gain from an appeal. Particularly if he does actually hold a few aces in terms of information as to who else might have been involved. In a review, that information could be traded for leniency or financial value of some sort

More broadly, there’s little doubt that this will prompt a worldwide review of what constitutes cheating and what the penalties should be

 

[FR0GGY]

Geez! Couldn't have thought of something else? I just watched a sad movie sweetie

I just realised what sort of a man daddy is sweetie.

 

[Bay62]

Agree 100%

He's obviously a dummy and sounded like an imbecile repeating those statements but I reckon his lawyer has mapped out a path back for him. And this played into it.

Dummies and imbeciles are a good source of legal work

Getting them to follow your plan is the hard part

Hello Donald Trump

 

[Bay62]

1)3) Many millions. Some have estimated $30-40 million in his lifetime, maybe more. Warner, Bancroft and Smith have also cost CA (and their players who get a %) many millions in sponsorship eg Magellan have dropped their $20 million backing of CA.

I saw one estimate that it could end up costing Smith $100m

You can easily see how it would have happened. All the money and sponsorship during his playing career, then post-career - Australian captain, great character, best batsman since Bradman etc. Media jobs, further sponsorship, book deals, public speaking opportunities. Not to mention the return on commercial investments over 30 years that such an income would support.

Wow

 

[Bay62]

If they challenge CA, they can kiss future selection goodbye...

Yep. Certainly relevant to Smith and Bancroft, probably less so to Warner

 

[GreyCrow]

This is contrary to what most people are saying, but as a former lawyer I don’t agree that Warner has been “poorly advised”

(Just to be clear - I’m not defending anything he did in anyway. Based on the little we know it appears that he deserves what he gets)

If his press conference goal was to seek forgiveness in the hope of playing again - as it was with Bancroft and Smith - then sure, he should have said more.

But unlike those two players, and as he seems to acknowledge, he’s probably got little chance of playing top level cricket again

Hence his strategy is to protect himself on three levels

Family - he may have decided that the abuse his family will have to put up with if he doesn’t say enough is less than the abuse they’ll have to put up with if he tells all. He could be wrong about that, but can’t blame him for trying to protect his wife and children

Money - his income has collapsed and unlike the other two his chances of reviving it seem slim. Meanwhile Cricket Australia have lost millions over this. Potentially, if they think he’s the culprit they might look to sue him to recover some of their loss. In that situation he’s only going to say the minimum at this time. He’s not going to comment on whether he’s done it before or how he knew what to do or what actually transpired

Power - there’s a review coming up and information is power. What he knows about who else did what or knew what could be of use to him at some point. Same with the possibility of an appeal. He’s keeping his powder dry to maximize his leverage as he moves into uncertain situations

Again, I’m not defending him but I can see what his advisers have perhaps told him. If it turns out he is in fact the main instigator then apologise profusely but otherwise saying the minimum at this stage is a sound legal strategy

Roy and HG talked about this . The best thing for Davey was to say as little as possible. This has the above benefits but it also defers for now embarrassing questions as to how long this has been going on.

There is already now the start of the ' My wife got abused I lost my cool and started to think of ways to get back' ie this is a one off because of the sledging

I am just trying to work out some sort of sentencing guideline or punishment precedent etc. on the severity of punishment handed down to Smith & Co. compared to other international cricketers who have been found guilty of similar.

I think this is the main argument that has raged over the last 20 pages or so.

I dont think anybody condones the ball tampering. Its a matter of penalty that has upset some more than others. If previous cases had been dealt with harsh penalties ie 6 games , 6 months etc then I dont think there would be as much outrage.

 

[FR0GGY]

Paine and Cummins digging in.

 

[Cap]

Be great to see both get Tons.

Cummins is one of the best cricketers we have had come through in a long time.

 

[FR0GGY]

Be great to see both get Tons.

Cummins is one of the best cricketers we have had come through in a long time.

Yeah something just to lift the morale a bit.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Buggar, so close to getting through this session.

Gutsy partnership though.

Best of the series for Australia.

 

[Doctor B]

I think this is the main argument that has raged over the last 20 pages or so.

I dont think anybody condones the ball tampering. Its a matter of penalty that has upset some more than others. If previous cases had been dealt with harsh penalties ie 6 games , 6 months etc then I dont think there would be as much outrage.[/QUOTE]


Absolutely agree, I am disgusted with the Australian ball tampering.

The longer that I think about the penalties, especially in relation to penalties applied to previous guilty ball tampering cricketers, I think that we have gone too hard.

They are losing millions of dollars and year long bans, in comparison to similar incidents it is so much more severe.

I hope they and their close family have full access to CA's medical professionals. Whether they are in the right or wrong, none of them look like they are in a great state of mental health ATM.

 

[hey shorty]

Paines brittle hands strike again

 

[John Who]

I made the point early on prior to penalties were handed out. I said a few months should suffice for the tampering crime committed. The main issue I see is that the ongoing fans' scrutiny/ridicule and long-term mental scar from the shame, would be a much greater pain than time off on the side-lines for a defined period. Not to mention now, sponsors and endorsements are going to dry up for Warner and Smith, so a huge financial loss for them both.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Paines brittle hands strike again

Didn't realise.

Makes this knock more gutsy.

Wonder if he will give Handscomb the gloves as they think Saffies won't enforce the follow on.

Great chat with Holding in the break.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Fair catch.

Now for Chadd to take 5 for, all out 120, and we chase it down on Days 4 and 5

 

[earlsta]

Sayers just isn’t fast enough to trouble international batsman.

Shows how poor our state system is.
120 clicks..

 

[hey shorty]

Sayers just isn’t fast enough to trouble international batsman.

Shows how poor our state system is.
120 clicks..

Philander isnt really any quicker

 

[Big Crow]

Sayers just isn’t fast enough to trouble international batsman.

Shows how poor our state system is.
120 clicks..

Show me a superior domestic competition.

 

[earlsta]

Philander isnt really any quicker

Philander can seam the ball and bowls at an international level line&length.

 

[hey shorty]

Philander can seam the ball and bowls at an international level line&length.

Sayers first game, I wouldnt be counting him out yet. Though he should have been playing 2 years ago

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Big innings for Sayers here. If he can bank 2 or 3 more wickets it will go a long way to him making the Ashes tour.

He was a bit inaccurate early in the 1st innings. Needs to zone in.

Go wicketless and they might put a line through him.

 

[Big Crow]

Big innings for Sayers here. If he can bank 2 or 3 more wickets it will go a long way to him making the Ashes tour.

He was a bit inaccurate early in the 1st innings. Needs to zone in.

Go wicketless and they might put a line through him.

Sayers a near certainty to get at least a match in the away Ashes with the Dukes ball in English decks. Agree a poor second innings here could set him back though.

 

[hey shorty]

Got through a Sayers over without Warne bagging him

 

[Thetrader15]

I saw one estimate that it could end up costing Smith $100m

You can easily see how it would have happened. All the money and sponsorship during his playing career, then post-career - Australian captain, great character, best batsman since Bradman etc. Media jobs, further sponsorship, book deals, public speaking opportunities. Not to mention the return on commercial investments over 30 years that such an income would support.

Wow

He'll still get a commentary gig once he retires

 

[1970crow]

I saw one estimate that it could end up costing Smith $100m

You can easily see how it would have happened. All the money and sponsorship during his playing career, then post-career - Australian captain, great character, best batsman since Bradman etc. Media jobs, further sponsorship, book deals, public speaking opportunities. Not to mention the return on commercial investments over 30 years that such an income would support.

Wow

He'll recover though, Warner won't.