Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)

[BrutThough]

I don't know if you've ever coached. I have. As a coach you are the difference between success and failure. I have never blamed my players. I have always questioned my attitude and planning when faced with a loss. I am better than my players, and the buck stops with me.

Richo can't kick the ball for the players. He can do his best to "motivate" or "inspire" the team each week, but Richo can't be help accountable for the poor skill execution or the lack of chasing or effort on the field.

 

[Mowman]

Richo can't kick the ball for the players. He can do his best to "motivate" or "inspire" the team each week, but Richo can't be help accountable for the poor skill execution or the lack of chasing or effort on the field.

Of course he can he is the coach and is in his fifth year, absolutely he is responsible for all of that.

 

[Superduperouzel]

Ratten deserves another chance. Great club man and best coach at the Blues for 25 years. I just worry about his emotional baggage.
We are not a Vic club that demands success but lets face it when things get a bit wobbly we are not the most patient, especially if we feel we are
on the cusp of something. Caracella seems to fit the bill as one of those next in line modern coaches a like Dew.
Sometimes it pays off like Clarkson, Beveridge who in some ways inherited decent lists but also developed their own new age footy club.
The age of bringing in messiah coaches is over. I´d rather go bang with a new coach but been in the system for some time or a recycled passionate
AF leader like Ratten.
Still hoping cos its only R2 , Richo can absorb the pressure and lead this club.

 

[Jade Buddha]

So those that do think Richo is responsible would you say we have the talent at the club?

 

[BrutThough]

Of course he can he is the coach and is in his fifth year, absolutely he is responsible for all of that.

The players need to be held accountable for the lack or effort or their inability to hit a target.
You can blame the coach for everything.
They shouldn't need an inspirational speech and mind blowing game plan to put in the basic effort expected of a professional footballer.

 

[Saintbloke]

In my research I came across this article- soccer related, but it might shed light on the subject. Sometimes clubs may just have to change coaches to achieve success, then it may all go bad down the track again. Or clubs can do nothing and never achieve success. Anyway have a read:
https://www.theodysseyonline.com/whos-to-blame-coach-or-players

 

[sunny3193]

For once in my life I’d like to see the club go the distance, and support the coach.
Players do not lose their skill sets overnight.
This is a list we were all bullish about not eight weeks ago.
And which had no issues with either game plan or coaching.
Richo is right (though many are critical of him for saying this).
The only way to fix this is hard work.
There’ll be many reasons for this result.
Tick them off.

 

[Superduperouzel]

For once in my life I’d like to see the club go the distance, and support the coach.
Players do not lose their skill sets overnight.
This is a list we were all bullish about not eight weeks ago.
And which had no issues with either game plan or coaching.
Richo is right (though many are critical of him for saying this).
The only way to fix this is hard work.
There’ll be many reasons for this result.
Tick them off.

Sure I agree with you. You´d like to see the Saints stick it out and see what the coach we´ve invested in can do.
I wish the likes of Alves, Sheldon, Thomas had become career coaches but for whatever reason it didn´t happen.
Fremantle are never gonna cut Lyon a drift cos for some reason he seems too powerful over there. Why on earth did Collingwood
persist with Buckley. I mean the guy is not gonna get Collingwood through their dark era. It´s different to what Hardwick had to work with though.
Richardson has less runs on the board than Brad Scott let´s be perfectly clear about this. If a coach can´t get passion and effort from his players, they´re living on borrowed time.

 

[#gosaintas]

For once in my life I’d like to see the club go the distance, and support the coach.
Players do not lose their skill sets overnight.
This is a list we were all bullish about not eight weeks ago.
And which had no issues with either game plan or coaching.
Richo is right (though many are critical of him for saying this).
The only way to fix this is hard work.
There’ll be many reasons for this result.
Tick them off.

I would back the coach in too. We have no choice really...
I'd like to see us bulk up on quality assistants. Not sure what Hamill and Spud are adding to the mix.
Leadership at the club is a massive issue, both onfield and off. Geary is a poor matchday captain. He's also a poor player. Problem is there's nobody to obviously replace him. Yet. Worst case is that it's a wasted year, we get another high pick and get to reboot in the offseason. Club will survive and things will turn around. I still think our list is pretty good. For some reason we play our players out of position, play without spirit or aggression and fumble like children. Then there's our inexplicable kicking skills.
Good old StKilda. We shit the bed every time the eyes of the footy world are upon us.

 

[saintbill]

Richo can't kick the ball for the players. He can do his best to "motivate" or "inspire" the team each week, but Richo can't be help accountable for the poor skill execution or the lack of chasing or effort on the field.

If the side is not fit enough to execute Richo's game plan then he is absolutely responsible.

Personally I have major question marks over our fitness relative to other sides. Richo also has a taxing game plan he us trying to implement. No doubt this impacts our skills also. Execution when you are knackered is obviously far more difficult.

It is all correlated, and whilst Richo is not the sole reason for our current predicament, he is at least part of the problem.

 

[gringo2011]

It's actually done the polar opposite. Whole club was so rapt to be back at Moorabbin, when I went down there a couple weeks ago you could sense a shift. Which makes the result on Friday even more baffling. Players had everything at Moorabbin set up for them. They literally had to walk in the door and put their personal belongings in their lockers.

It's definitely no excuse for the shocking performance. Again I reiterate that these are professional footballers. If you get distracted moving lockers maybe the games not for you.

Turn the hot water off until they grow some gonads. Get them old school tough.

 

[Superduperouzel]

Turn the hot water off until they grow some gonads. Get them old school tough.

Bring Robert Walls in to teach Billings how to fight

 

[saintbill]

So those that do think Richo is responsible would you say we have the talent at the club?

Richo does not have the talent right now, that is obvious. Is he getting the best out of this list right now? That is probably debateable either way?

Has he been successfully at developing talent? This is where it is hard to argue that he has been anything other than a failure. Coming into his 5th year we should have multiple players that have surprised on the upside. Almost all of the talent coming into the club has either just met expectations or failed to meet expectations. That is not just unlucky recruiting.

Other clubs are smoking us when it comes to development. This falls on the coaching staff.

 

[gringo2011]

I've got a bad feeling we'll have to let Richo go this season. I don't reckon he can survive, I can't see us doing a Richmond with our biggest game breaker being Jack Steven. There's too much bad feeling out there for him now, I think him and his assistants have run their race at our club. Sad but it happens.

So the question probably should become, if not him then who?

My money would be on Ratten as he has actually done the job before.

No to Roos or Mick, no to Hird. Knights? Ayres? Not sure. Caracella? Camporeale? Too green.

Everyone's dream Clarkson seems a long shot. Chris Scott ditto. Brad Scott? Bevo?

Robert Harvey would probably want the gig but I'd not be keen. Justin Plapp? Lenny Hayes?

Whose gun coaching (not magic) would turn our group of players into a skilled finals outfit?

If we have to keep Richo we should demand he has a new set of quality assistants with proven ability. Caracalla, Campo, Ratten, Knights....anyone. No more of these guys that are Richo's mild yes men. He's stacked the assistant list with yes men who don't seem have a talent for their job or aren't able to push their own agendas.


We can't afford to bring in Harvey or Lenny, history says integer ends well bringing in an old boy. It might be unfair but if it fails it will just make us more ridiculously stupid looking.

 

[Superduperouzel]

Richo does not have the talent right now, that is obvious. Is he getting the best out of this list right now? That is probably debateable either way?

Has he been successfully at developing talent? This is where it is hard to argue that he has been anything other than a failure. Coming into his 5th year we should have multiple players that have surprised on the upside. Almost all of the talent coming into the club has either just met expectations or failed to meet expectations. That is not just unlucky recruiting.

Other clubs are smoking us when it comes to development. This falls on the coaching staff.

Or our recruiting staff. Bont & Petracca in Saints colors. Mute point but how different would we look now.

 

[gringo2011]

Richo does not have the talent right now, that is obvious. Is he getting the best out of this list right now? That is probably debateable either way?

Has he been successfully at developing talent? This is where it is hard to argue that he has been anything other than a failure. Coming into his 5th year we should have multiple players that have surprised on the upside. Almost all of the talent coming into the club has either just met expectations or failed to meet expectations. That is not just unlucky recruiting.

Other clubs are smoking us when it comes to development. This falls on the coaching staff.

I don't think it is obvious, we have a terrible list. No one rates the player rankings but it the best guide we have. Collingwood are a mid table side, look at the difference between the top 50s, top 100s, and top 200s. We are a long way off even mid table sides. If some of the kids improve then it changes but we are not very good.

http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#club/CD_T130

http://www.afl.com.au/stats/player-ratings/overall-standings#club/CD_T40


Edit.....Sorry just realised you said not obvious.

 

[gringo2011]

Of course he can he is the coach and is in his fifth year, absolutely he is responsible for all of that.

He hasn't got many players he inherited though. He has Geary...B grade trier, Webster B grade, Stuv elite, Armo injury prone but B grade, Gilbert B to C, Minch, Wright, Hickey etc all delist next season. Hardly like what Buckley started with and he's had to build the list with top up players like Bruce and Roberton and go to the draft.

I still think our biggest issue is who ever is managing the list. Why do we have this policy of not going after the type of players we need? Surely Richo must want a quality outside mid or fast indigenous player like the Hills. Why not go after Walters, Charlie Cameron even Motlop. We can all see what is missing but we fixate on certain stars and then when it doesn't work sulk and give up. We should have delisted several players that we signed up to long term contracts. That's why I was never as sold on Ameet Bains, he seemed to spend the cap on guys like Pierce and Minch instead of bring in talent we need even if they weren't stars but added something.

 

[Saint Watto]

If some of the kids improve then it changes but we are not very good.

gringo......I think this is where many were pinning their hopes too.....that several would take the next step this year and make an ordinary list that much better........I know I did........and they still may do that.

We all knew we didn't have the greatest list and some of the match day actions or lack of them just compounds/highlights our list woes.

We're in or perceived to be in that "nightmare" place where....is it the coach....is it the players(talent wise or application wise)......is it the assistants......is it our development systems.

I couldn't help be envious of yesterday's game.......huge crowd(big bucks for the Hawks......again)......a close exciting game.....god I yearn for those days again.

And you have to give credit to Clarkson what he's done in the last 12 months......it's a little mind boggling.

They were flogged by 70 points plus for 3 of their first 6 games.

 

[StCicatriz]

He hasn't got many players he inherited though. He has Geary...B grade trier, Webster B grade, Stuv elite, Armo injury prone but B grade, Gilbert B to C, Minch, Wright, Hickey etc all delist next season. Hardly like what Buckley started with and he's had to build the list with top up players like Bruce and Roberton and go to the draft.

I still think our biggest issue is who ever is managing the list. Why do we have this policy of not going after the type of players we need? Surely Richo must want a quality outside mid or fast indigenous player like the Hills. Why not go after Walters, Charlie Cameron even Motlop. We can all see what is missing but we fixate on certain stars and then when it doesn't work sulk and give up. We should have delisted several players that we signed up to long term contracts. That's why I was never as sold on Ameet Bains, he seemed to spend the cap on guys like Pierce and Minch instead of bring in talent we need even if they weren't stars but added something.

Why would those players come here?

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

honestly we could have had a jock McHale, Sheedy, Jeans, Clarkson hybrid coach on friday and our boys wouldnt have got the job done ... in my opinion there is something mentally holding our guys back , there is no other excuse why when the expectation is so high the boys come out serving up a meek performance .. look at the footage Richo is beside himself on why the guys are not running back , why they continually are bombing it out of defence , Friday was the first time in a long time ive seen soo many Saints standing flat footed at a contest... its almost like they were waiting for someone else to flick the switch to get them going , they were waiting for Steven to charge through and lift the team or they were waiting for Acres to grab hold of the game ... in the past it would have been looking for Rooey we cant afford that we need the guys to want to be the one to flick the switch not waiting for someone else to do it for them ... how we respond is going to be interesting we were humiliated and coming against three massive mountans in the next few weeks the expectation is going to be low on us doing anything we dont handle being favorites so maybe being rank underdogs will see our efforts improve

 

[FQFjt]

I agree that Ratten should be top of our list. Other interesting candidates are Leppitsch and Voss. Both had terrible times at Brisbane but are known to be excellent coaches and who have worked with successful senior coaches.

I like Richo, he seems like a genuinely good bloke and I can’t imagine he would have many enemies at the club or in the league. But I am wracking my brain and cannot come up with a single example of a time where he:
- has spoken in any actually insightful way about football tactics or strategy
- has demonstrated unexpectedly good and consequential game day strategising
- has shown any sort of innovation

Watching him somewhat regularly on 360 has only driven home this point. No coach is going to reveal club secrets, but hearing Scott actually go into interesting and substantive tactical footy talk juxtaposed to Richo’s almost braindead cliched drivel does not fill me with confidence, to say the least.

Of course, behind closed doors and when the cameras aren’t rolling he could be a completely different guy, but there’s basically no reason to suppose that is the case.




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[st_trav_ofWA]

I agree that Ratten should be top of our list. Other interesting candidates are Leppitsch and Voss. Both had terrible times at Brisbane but are known to be excellent coaches and who have worked with successful senior coaches.

I like Richo, he seems like a genuinely good bloke and I can’t imagine he would have many enemies at the club or in the league. But I am wracking my brain and cannot come up with a single example of a time where he:
- has spoken in any actually insightful way about football tactics or strategy
- has demonstrated unexpectedly good and consequential game day strategising
- has shown any sort of innovation

Watching him somewhat regularly on 360 has only driven home this point. No coach is going to reveal club secrets, but hearing Scott actually go into interesting and substantive tactical footy talk juxtaposed to Richo’s almost braindead cliched drivel does not fill me with confidence, to say the least.

Of course, behind closed doors and when the cameras aren’t rolling he could be a completely different guy, but there’s basically no reason to suppose that is the case.

that is exactly the case... the limited look behind the curtain i have had says a lot of what we see of richo is very diferant to the behind closed doors Richo... he is cliched in front of medai , so are all of our guys ... the fear of saying the wrong thing or having something said turned around and thrown back at us means we basically say nothing every time ... we need to be visable cause we need the exposure but you are not ever going to get anything insightful from our team cause we have been burnt too many times .. we will always play it safe

 

[FQFjt]

that is exactly the case... the limited look behind the curtain i have had says a lot of what we see of richo is very diferant to the behind closed doors Richo... he is cliched in front of medai , so are all of our guys ... the fear of saying the wrong thing or having something said turned around and thrown back at us means we basically say nothing every time ... we need to be visable cause we need the exposure but you are not ever going to get anything insightful from our team cause we have been burnt too many times .. we will always play it safe

I’m sure many of us would really appreciate you giving your impressions from behind the curtain. I think half the problem is that his (public) style is so disengaging.


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[gringo2011]

Why would those players come here?

Last year we still had bluff. We looked to be progressing. I reckon right this moment you'd need your head read or be ken on money.

 

[gringo2011]

honestly we could have had a jock McHale, Sheedy, Jeans, Clarkson hybrid coach on friday and our boys wouldnt have got the job done ... in my opinion there is something mentally holding our guys back , there is no other excuse why when the expectation is so high the boys come out serving up a meek performance .. look at the footage Richo is beside himself on why the guys are not running back , why they continually are bombing it out of defence , Friday was the first time in a long time ive seen soo many Saints standing flat footed at a contest... its almost like they were waiting for someone else to flick the switch to get them going , they were waiting for Steven to charge through and lift the team or they were waiting for Acres to grab hold of the game ... in the past it would have been looking for Rooey we cant afford that we need the guys to want to be the one to flick the switch not waiting for someone else to do it for them ... how we respond is going to be interesting we were humiliated and coming against three massive mountans in the next few weeks the expectation is going to be low on us doing anything we dont handle being favorites so maybe being rank underdogs will see our efforts improve

Yeah it was strange how they stopped running. It was like they were throwing the match it was so obvious.