Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)

[aussierulesrules]

You'd have to think that if we continue on as we are (losing to average teams by 40+ points and not winning) he will lose the playing group, if he hasn't already, and it will become an untenable situation and he'll get the flick.

So for him to still be there next year I'd say we will need to show a significant spike in form, that shows he is capable of turning this ship around, because if we don't, the damage he could do to the playing list/morale and so-on if he's lost them could be far worse than the prospect of losing two years worth of what we owe him on his contract.

 

[plugger66]

I get the feeling that Wosha (Essendon) and Richo have both gambled on the game evolving a certain way, to which the game has not (or in this case moved in a different direction). This has caused problems at the stoppages and ensuing clearance disabling our ability to provide our forwards with definitive marking opportunities.

Perhaps our goal kicking is to blame to a degree, however, our forward thrusts are seldom with purpose, and generally placing our forwards out of position. I don't for a second think that this is an easy fix, however, I do think that it can be overcome slowly i.e. by the time round 1 2019 commences. This scenario is not what we want to read, however, someone within the coaching department is clearly responsible for the current plight and needs to raise their hand.

Win lose or draw, I think Richo needs to face the fans on the boundary post game. It's not alright to only be seen after a good win or a chivalrous loss, dodging the membership only raises further doubts surrounding his credibility.

The club needs to be transparent moving forward, as I witnessed a great number of members gravely disappointed and disillusioned with the club yesterday. Finnis, Richardson and Co must provide factual and rationale reasons to the fans as to why it has gone so terribly wrong. Further failings will see Membership and sponsorship dollars decline without a strong statement.

Totally agree on your first part. We recruited the wrong players for how the game was heading. Couldn't disagree more about Richo facing fans on the boundary post game. Maybe you were joking.

 

[Persevering Saint]

The club needs to be transparent moving forward, as I witnessed a great number of members gravely disappointed and disillusioned with the club yesterday. Finnis, Richardson and Co must provide factual and rationale reasons to the fans as to why it has gone so terribly wrong. Further failings will see Membership and sponsorship dollars decline without a strong statement.

What on earth would be the point? So he can spout the same crappy cliches he spews out every week in the Members' Only videos? The only thing that gets added to that dynamic is making it easier for a disgruntled fan to pelt something at him.

 

[gringo2011]

04 we had a good experience of players, young, mid, old... But let’s not forget, our young players jumped early, but there was a period 2006-2008 where development looked to have stagnated, older players retired and we looked like we already peaked...

Our peak 2009-2010 was when our core was around 26-28, it can take time!

Difference is that our players haven’t bolted out of the blocks ala 2004-2005, we haven’t seen the capabilities on a consistent basis with this group! Development looks to have stalled without us seeing there best.. Development and coaching of these players is a huge concern right now..

I think if players are around 22 they can still be good to above average but the superstars have usually shown themselves by then. Nat Fyfe was a slow developer comparatively and of the real guns but he was already well ahead of guys like Acres at the same age. We don't have a Robert Harvey or Tony Lockett and we need to just accept that and start trying to find some proper X factor. I wasn't for going after De Goey or Mc govern etc but considering we are useless at the draft we might as well roll the dice.

 

[TheEnsign]

The relevant question (if we only win 3.5 or 4.5 games) is probably, what is the opportunity costs in membership by not sacking Richo? To be clear, I think the rot extends far beyond Richo but ultimately he's in the big chair and is accountable, plus if we have a rubbish season you have to sell the members on some kind of hope. The questions are:

1) How much is his contract per year? I'm genuinely curious about this, I don't know what AFL head coaches are paid? 500k per annum?
2) (If 3 - 4 wins plus one draw) - how many members will otherwise not renew their membership, and how many would (on the basis of blind hope) with a new coach?

If the answer to the membership question is ~2.5k members, then sacking him is probably revenue neutral imo.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

We need new board of directors.

Roo would be perfect for this.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

i dont know if the board of directors are impacting the players kicking ability

 

[MUFKilda]

I know he has two years left, but he's been there for five, and this was supposed to be the year Saints really kicked on. Clearly things have gone backwards, and everyone can have their view as to why, but surely the buck ultimately stops with the head coach. Is there a different culture in Aussie Rules when it comes to hiring and firing? If he was a soccer manager in England, he'd be gone now; his feet wouldn't touch the ground. Or is the cost of paying out his contract the only thing saving him? If so, those who gave him the contract should also be accountable. Perhaps I don't understand the way it operates?

 

[triggering bro]

The relevant question (if we only win 3.5 or 4.5 games) is probably, what is the opportunity costs in membership by not sacking Richo? To be clear, I think the rot extends far beyond Richo but ultimately he's in the big chair and is accountable, plus if we have a rubbish season you have to sell the members on some kind of hope. The questions are:

1) How much is his contract per year? I'm genuinely curious about this, I don't know what AFL head coaches are paid? 500k per annum?
2) (If 3 - 4 wins plus one draw) - how many members will otherwise not renew their membership, and how many would (on the basis of blind hope) with a new coach?

If the answer to the membership question is ~2.5k members, then sacking him is probably revenue neutral imo.

Hit the nail on the head

Need to get some accountants on the job Joffaboy sunny3193

 

[StCicatriz]

ive been a big supporter of the coach .. and strong advocate for the stabiliy over the very St Kilda sack first ask questions later approach but honestly im starting to think Richo may be losing or already has lost the players.. the whole energy coming out of the club at the moment is flat absoultly everything seems a little off from their media apperances to their social media presence its almost like they are just phoning it in.. theres not a lot of passion in anything we do ... honestly we have the team over this week here in Perth and ive got no clue what to expect ... we have both Peter Summers and Simon Lethlean coming to our function to talk about the club and ive got no idea how thats going to turn out.. no offence to the club at all but for our WA members they have got more information from me over the last two weeks then what the club has given them its our first game at the new stadium we should be jumping out of our skins about this but ive got members who still dont know where they are sitting for the game ...
im personally a bit concerned

when are the ballot dates open for the wce game? emailed them. still havent heard anything back. i paid for the freo game tickets, so the wce ones are freebies. if they dont get around to booking them, then they are going to lose 7 memberships.

 

[Mowman]

I know he has two years left, but he's been there for five, and this was supposed to be the year Saints really kicked on. Clearly things have gone backwards, and everyone can have their view as to why, but surely the buck ultimately stops with the head coach. Is there a different culture in Aussie Rules when it comes to hiring and firing? If he was a soccer manager in England, he'd be gone now; his feet wouldn't touch the ground. Or is the cost of paying out his contract the only thing saving him? If so, those who gave him the contract should also be accountable. Perhaps I don't understand the way it operates?

Hopefully we put certain KPI that must be met in his contract and hopefully that will give us a get out clause.
With how it is going it will cost the club more $$ to keep him then what it will to pay him out, game day crowds - Memberships -Sponsers
I can see players wanting out of the place at years end if we continue down the track we are on

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

What on earth would be the point? So he can spout the same crappy cliches he spews out every week in the Members' Only videos? The only thing that gets added to that dynamic is making it easier for a disgruntled fan to pelt something at him.

Could encourage more fans to turn up to games? Everyone bring your rotten tomatoes down for the weekly Richo pelting!

 

[VDS66]

Fair to say that I've never seen supporters as angry as they are not.

Drive past Linton St this morning and they demolished the whole grandstand...

 

[FQFjt]

Is it time for a Richmond style Focus on Footy challenge, even if just to shove this whole administration into the spotlight? Something has got to give.

 

[StCicatriz]

Look it up but if you want to know a few facts we came last from 83 to 86 and won 2 games in 86. We also lost our first 3 games in 85 by margins of over 100 points. That's just a couple for you but I don't expect a response or you find something even more negative about this year. Remember this is only one year. The 80's certainly early were a whole lot of bad years worse then the current one.


By the way can you actually quote anyone who has connected the 80's and richos coaching ability. Bar you of course.

we also scored a lot heavier though plugger. losing but scoring in excess of 100 from my recollection at looking at the round results.

who said anything about richo's ability, i am just repeating what some have said who were around in the 80s, that this is harder for them.

in the 80s what did you look forward to?

 

[plugger66]

we also scored a lot heavier though plugger. losing but scoring in excess of 100 from my recollection at looking at the round results.

who said anything about richo's ability, i am just repeating what some have said who were around in the 80s, that this is harder for them.

in the 80s what did you look forward to?

Are you serious? Every club scored heavily. Plugger kicked 70 goals even though we finished last. Today that would win the Coleman. You were the one trying to link Richo coaching ability to the pro Richo people and how bad the 80's were. I cant find anyone else linking them.

In the 80's I looked forward to 2 things. Plugger and the hope of a fluke win. There are no Pluggers in todays footy so now I look forward to a fluke win but only this season. Try doing it for 4 in a row.

 

[wayneolsen]

I think if players are around 22 they can still be good to above average but the superstars have usually shown themselves by then. Nat Fyfe was a slow developer comparatively and of the real guns but he was already well ahead of guys like Acres at the same age. We don't have a Robert Harvey or Tony Lockett and we need to just accept that and start trying to find some proper X factor. I wasn't for going after De Goey or Mc govern etc but considering we are useless at the draft we might as well roll the dice.

As I said post 17 presentation night re coach and pres declaring that in 2018 growth will come from within. That is just spin and code for we can't trade or pinch players from anywhere! There is hope and since then we have pissed off the useless Cox and brought in Lethlean. He is just what we need. A bloke that knows the game and clearly has balls to make any necessary changes to coaches and players. My guess is that this yr will continue be a test for us all But we will bring in some fresh quality players in the 23-29 yr bracket next yr that will give us big improvement. Keep your powder dry and have faith

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

when are the ballot dates open for the wce game? emailed them. still havent heard anything back. i paid for the freo game tickets, so the wce ones are freebies. if they dont get around to booking them, then they are going to lose 7 memberships.

as per the email sent to all members :

Thanks for getting your halo on in 2018!

We’re making the journey over to the West twice this season and we can’t wait to experience the new stadium with you. As a Saints member residing interstate, we have recently mailed you your 2018 Interstate booking form.

This outlines everything you need to know about securing yourself one complimentary ticket, with access to purchase a ticket for the additional game.

Round 8 bookings open at 9am Monday 9 April, 2018.

Round 11 bookings open 9am Monday 30 April, 2018.

As we have many members in each state we strongly advise booking early to avoid disappointment.

If you have only very recently renewed, you may have missed out on receiving the booking form in the post, so please find this available to download here

Please note your complimentary upgrade to a home game in Melbourne will now be available to book at 9am Monday 20, March 2018.

If you have any questions, please contact the Membership Support Team on 1300 467 246.

Kind Regards,
Saints Membership Support Team

#HalosOn

 

[VDS66]

1975 through to when Plugger arrived was a decade of weekly shit sandwiches.

No one has said that it's an excuse to accept poor standards. Not one of us has said that we should keep him at all costs. Not one!

It was a reply to fans over exaggerating how bad our current plight is.

Back then there was no first draft pick, no PP and the VFL basically didn't give a stuff about you.

All we had was a whisp of a lad named Trevor.

Anyone who started following us in the late 80's have had a decent run in terms of finals and GF appearances.

That's all we are saying.

So apologies if some of our views on Richo and his future don't fall into line with the sack him and it will turn out great mob.

Like it or not, this decision will either make it break us as a club.

So yeah, **** it if I and a few others want a more measured response by the club.

Some of us actually want to weigh up the financial ramifications.

Some of us actually want to know what the real reason are before pulling the trigger.

Some of us want to know if there is a better candidate available and why.

Sadly, certain posters cry foul when called out then sook it up with an "I told you so" response when things turn out as predicted.

#sookylala #bruisedego.

Us oldies are probably hurting as much if not more about our current plight because we've been exposed to this for 50 ****ing years. Not 5... 50!

To then accuse people of blindly supporting the coach, or the war is lost or whatever floats your boat just says more about individuals stupidity and fragile egos.

Rather be an arrogant old flog than an ignorant sheep that follows the herd regardless of the long term consequences to the club.

And frankly I don't expect millenials to agree or understand this post because you have been raised in a world where it's all been handed to you on a platter without any real struggle.

When the going gets tough, just go with the magic quick fix... Then come back and whinge when the magic fix doesn't work, and tell us again how shit the club is...

 

[Mowman]

NPD

 

[StCicatriz]

Are you serious? Every club scored heavily. Plugger kicked 70 goals even though we finished last. Today that would win the Coleman. You were the one trying to link Richo coaching ability to the pro Richo people and how bad the 80's were. I cant find anyone else linking them.

In the 80's I looked forward to 2 things. Plugger and the hope of a fluke win. There are no Pluggers in todays footy so now I look forward to a fluke win but only this season. Try doing it for 4 in a row.

no i wasn't, i was commenting on the rebuttal the pro richo crowd has used to justify the acceptance of the results we are now seeing today. the 80s line has been rolled out ad nauseam as a way to minimise the dissatisfaction with this years results. i never once made the link of the 80s to richo or this year. i don't see the relevance of the two and have argued in the past that the 80s has no bearing on whats happening now and nor should it even be brought up.

because we were poor 3 decades ago, doesn't mean we should be ok with being poor now.

the first time the 80s were brought up was in a way to throw support around the current football dept through minimising how the losses may be seen.

my commentary has been on that!

as for the scoring high comment, i guess that is my point, people still saw scoring and it created the reason why you went to games. no one has a plugger to drag them to games. that's my point here. atleast the dullness of the 80s still had some star players to watch. right now you have a bland, low scoring, poorly performed team, with no hope of winning, getting beaten in what is a generic stadium with no feel. atleast moorabbin had its own thing. etihad. spare me.

 

[VDS66]

Sure thing Paris...

NPD

 

[Saintbloke]

Sure is hard for us old farts to see how bad the Saints have become. Seen all the good and bad times over the years, but for some reason, it feels all the good we did in recent history has now been dismantled and is all down the gurgler, and it is really one of the more depressing times as a Sainter that I have ever experienced. The whole Westaway, Sumner transition has resulted in the sh*t we have now.

 

[plugger66]

no i wasn't, i was commenting on the rebuttal the pro richo crowd has used to justify the acceptance of the results we are now seeing today. the 80s line has been rolled out ad nauseam as a way to minimise the dissatisfaction with this years results. i never once made the link of the 80s to richo or this year. i don't see the relevance of the two and have argued in the past that the 80s has no bearing on whats happening now and nor should it even be brought up.

because we were poor 3 decades ago, doesn't mean we should be ok with being poor now.

the first time the 80s were brought up was in a way to throw support around the current football dept through minimising how the losses may be seen.

my commentary has been on that!

as for the scoring high comment, i guess that is my point, people still saw scoring and it created the reason why you went to games. no one has a plugger to drag them to games. that's my point here. atleast the dullness of the 80s still had some star players to watch. right now you had a bland, low scoring, poorly performed team, with no hope of winning, getting beaten in what is generic stadium with no feel. atleast moorabbin had its own thing. etihad. spare me.

But no clubs have a plugger. I went to most games in the 80’s and I’m telling you there was no fun losing 3 games in a row by 100 points even if plugger was there. It was no fun getting wet. It was no fun watching mud everywhere.

And how can you link saying the 80”s was worse to accepting today’s footy. All people who grew up in the 80’s are saying is it has been worse. That’s fact. I could say whinging on here about our footy today has no effect so why waste your energy. Is that accepting the performance. Not one little bit. It’s realising that we can’t have a say because bf forum should have no say.

If you really want to influence the club find a way of doing it. And influencing can be positive not negative like a silly boycott of games but if you feel that strongly don’t go this week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[StCicatriz]

Sure is hard for us old farts to see how bad the Saints have become. Seen all the good and bad times over the years, but for some reason, it feels all the good we did in recent history has now been dismantled and is all down the gurgler, and it is really one of the more depressing times as a Sainter that I have ever experienced. The whole Westaway, Sumner transition has resulted in the sh*t we have now.

this is exactly the type of post or story i'm hearing from saints fans who went through the 80s. i find it interesting. its not the first time i've read it or heard it either.

if you had to try and identify why you don't feel as bad as back then, why do you think that is? what got you through the 80s?

 

[StCicatriz]

But no clubs have a plugger. I went to most games in the 80’s and I’m telling you there was no fun losing 3 games in a row by 100 points even if plugger was there. It was no fun getting wet. It was no fun watching mud everywhere.

And how can you link saying the 80”s was worse to accepting today’s footy. All people who grew up in the 80’s are saying is it has been worse. That’s fact. I could say whinging on here about our footy today has no effect so why waste your energy. Is that accepting the performance. Not one little bit. It’s realising that we can’t have a say because bf forum should have no say.

If you really want to influence the club find a way of doing it. And influencing can be positive not negative like a silly boycott of games but if you feel that strongly don’t go this week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

but that's the thing plugger people who went through that period are telling me its WORSE NOW!

i do find your comment interesting where you said plugger made you look forward to games but you also say it wasn't fun. so you were looking forward to something that wasn't fun? is that a hope thing, like you hoped it would be fun but it wasn't?

do you enjoy the football now this season, compared to those dark years in the 80s? what makes you look forward to games now?