List Mgmt. Carlton's 2018 Draft Thread (cont. in Part 2)

[BlueRenaissance]

gibbs was aside from simpson our most resilient player, and is super flexible . I can see the crows squeezing another 5 years out of him just like they have Betts. Waite was never expected to play as long as he has either.

True but by 2021 you wont care one jot about him as you watch O Brien at the mere age of 21/22 play his part in our rise....and then consolidation for oh...another 7-8 years being conservative.

And that is value from one pick only.

We reamed Adelaide on shelf life and picks!

 

[therubbernub]

They got poor picks in return (Docherty 12 to 33?) and lost years of development.

If you think that is not critical, think of losing Curnow (Docherty) for pick 33. Then you would be banging down the AFL's door for a pick.

Not sure that Docherty was rated at the same heights as Charlie at the time. And its not the AFL's job to underwrite clubs poor trading. But in the end they did lose out as you say.

 

[therubbernub]

True but by 2021 you wont care one jot about him as you watch O Brien at the mere age of 21/22 play his part in our rise....and then consolidation for oh...another 7-8 years being conservative.

And that is value from one pick only.

We reamed Adelaide on shelf life and picks!

I think it was win win. We got what we needed, the crows got what they needed. if Gibbs lands them a premiership, I dont think any amount of reaming will be noticed

 

[katmanblue]

How are we getting 19?

By losing every game this year.

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[Blues90]

Why not ?
In 2015 we had a clear plan to draft in talls with
* Weitering
*Curnow
*Mckay
*Silvagni
Cuningham with * Glass Mccasker also on the rookie list
5 talls .
Its a strong draft why would we not make the most of this perceived strong draft to bolster a glaring weakness our midfield but not just midfield but general running players forward and back non talls .
If we dont bring in a FA mid or trade for a quality mid and go to the draft with picks 1 + roughly 22 pick up Lukosius with our first and BSOS with a later pick .
Then imo thats a disaster for our side .
If we do grab a FA mid unlikely but that could change the landscape slightly .
Theres been plenty of talk about the talls that will be going off the list over the next couple of years how about the smalls midfielders running types ?
We have Murphy seemingly getting closer to the end with every injury Ed probably not far after that .
Not only those 2 a bit down the track but we are also going to be replacing Simpson Thomas possibly at the end of this year and maybe Wright at the end of next . Thats not taking into account who may be delisted Kerridge Graham Lebois Lamb Mullett ?
These are list spots that have to be filled or we are stuck with players we would rather not have on the list .
I suspect Lebois and Mullett may survive .
Yes all the young smalls youve mentioned look great but will they all make it will one get a tempting offer from somewhere else .
Will one have a major injury that curtails his development and career .
Cuningham has the talent but does he have the desire . Point is they may not all make it leaving us with our arses hanging out once again if there isnt a concerted effort this off season to do something about it .

Cuningham is a lot better tha. Lucas and the rest


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[SkyhorseTamer]

Hahahahahaha nice move. Back track on that statement because our posts in that thread were removed due to site issues. It was in the 2018 draft thread and you know you said that. If anything, I referenced it here and you did not object...

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...ent-discussion.1186643/page-108#post-55099999

Assuming our picks remain tied to our current position and no compo picks (I cbf guessing that)

1 - Rankine
22 - I'd look for a mid here that has the most speed + disposal skill available
32 - Best inside mid available
55 - Ben Silvagni
73 - Not fussed here, if pressed, I'd grab a small defender

I don't really see many significant trades happening. We don't have much trade value left and highly doubt we'll want to part with our picks this year. Wines for our 2019 1st is the only one that might happen but a lot has to play out for that. If not, perhaps our 2019 2nd will get involved for someone SOS has his eye on.

Every player we take must have a backbone though. I can't stand afraid of contact types in a contact sport.

Rankine + another fast mid with reasonable disposal will give our team the injection of speed it needs.

Another inside mid to help out in the guts.

Simmo is getting on in age, will retire in the near future. Wouldn't mind getting a small defender with some pace.

Eeek. This strategy leaves us paper thin at each end of the ground. We’ve got no young talls down back behind Macreadie. With Rowe Asos n a few others close to done we need to build a little more depth. Also, what happens if McKay doesn’t work out? There’s minimal key forward options on our list. Charlie will play his best footy if he can’t be double teamed. He needs help. Lukosius will provide that. Imagine his brilliant leading to the wings or high half forward. Strong mark and the hitting Curnow on the lead. That combination is potentially deadly and something not many teams have access to or the ability to stop. A midfield of Cripps Kennedy Sps fisher Dow lob maybe a gaff/wallis and role players in cunners JSos polson Garlett and Pickett is almost enough. I understand the want to improve that area but if we’re patient we almost have the cattle there.

My biggest concern with rankine is how well he transitions into the midfield at Afl level. He’s not incredible around stoppages or with contested ball. If, say, the choice is put to you as a generational mobile key forward or a very good explosive small half forward who would you take ? To me that is definitely lukosius. However we have to watch the champs for this to become clearer in my opinion.

Both incredible talents?

Then I look at what we currently have on our list. Which is pretty much what I've been saying the whole time. We have Charlie and Harry. They've shown a bit, Charlie more so, but Harry has been given his chance and looking like he'll be a good ff. Plus we will be taking Ben Silvagni and have Kerr + TDK as well. We don't need another list spot taken by a kpf. Especially when we have quite a few taken by kpd's as well.

I look at our midfield and it definitely needs more A grade talent.

So the choice for me becomes simple. Go for the mid.

Kerr by no means will make it. Or is close. He’s trying his guts out though. Ben Silvagni has hardly played any footy worth watching and judging. Let’s see if he makes and plays champs well before we decide he’s going to even be drafted. TDK is more likely a replacement for kreuzer than a KPF. I wouldn’t be lumping him in under the KPP umbrella.

We haven't scored 100 points because we don't have enough mids chipping in and kicking goals. We also don't have any good small or medium forwards that apply forward tackling pressure. Wright is way too hot and cold. Jack has gone backwards this year, Garlett not up to it and Pickett injured. Lamb I often forget he's even playing most of the time.

As for recruiters all saying Lukosius is the best player, I doubt that is actually the case.

Lukosius in exposed form is the best player in the draft.

Just to have a quick look at balance and need. Our potential best 22 in 2020 with players currently on the list could look like this:

Fb: Plowman Weitering Docherty
Hb: Cuningham Macreadie Marchbank
C: Fisher E Curnow Williamson
Hf: SPS C Curnow Pickett
Ff: Garlett McKay Polson
R: Kreuzer/TDK Cripps Kennedy
I/c: Lob Dow Kerridge Lang

No murphy or other seniors, obviously ideal world without injuries but how else are we supposed to project and hence debate.
Midfield is not a huge issue for this team in my opinion. I’d like a small defender so Cuningham can push into the midfield and I think we’d be hoping Sps and Kennedy become good to very good players but I’ve got no reason to think they won’t yet. Highly rated juniors who are still very young in their Afl careers. We’d also have still have graham type players, JSos who we are re modelling at the moment, Schumacher, multiple other draft picks, and a free agent or two. I honestly see the biggest need in that team is the front 6. Lukosius in that team is mouthwatering. It’s more transformative than Rankine slotting I’m in my opinion.

So if we had a forward who knows where to lead wouldn't make it easier for our midfielders to deliver the ball? Locket played in a s**t team at St.Kilda and still kicked 100 goals a year. Think about it. The good players know where to lead and position themselves to make it easier to get the ball.

Exactly. So many supporters lose their s**t at players who look like they don’t know what they’re doing/ kick it long to no one... it’s cause we’ve got no one in the team who consistently leads to the right place. Midfielders with no options look s**t on tv, when it’s their team mates letting them down.

So we keep a slow midfield
As Jim Carey once said
Alrighty then

Look at the team I’ve just written above. That midfield is not slow. Now, Compare it to the best midfields in the comp at the moment and it compares very evenly. Richmond are running around with Lambert Grigg Cotchin Prestia Caddy and Martin. None are fast. Geelong have Selwood x2 Ablett Duncan Menegola kelly and Dangerfield. I’d suggest Dow fisher Cuningham Sps Cripps Kennedy lob Lang is faster overall. Then we’d have Willo Garlett and Pickett outside, they’re all quick.

Lets say Luko ends up being every bit as good as a Nick Riewoldt...

I still don't think Riewoldts career is anywhere near as good if he wasn't being fed by...
Hayes, Dal Santo, Goddard, Jones, Gram, Ball

We need mids... we have invested in height.. we need to get the engine room going

Riewoldt was a champ. He made those players better. In s**t saints teams his numbers never dropped. Absolute gun.

Not that he suits our needs, but I am on this kids bandwagon.

#10 Bailey Williams
Key Position Forward/Ruckman (Dandenong Stingrays/Vic Country)
17/04/2000 | 198cm | 95kg

The red-haired Williams burst onto the scene last year with some eyecatching displays for the Dandenong Stingrays, while he was also able to represent the Vic Country Under 18 team as a bottom-ager, where he mostly played in the ruck. While Williams is a strong ruck, he is probably a better forward at the moment – in the mould of Gold Coast’s 2014 draftee Peter Wright. Williams has an outstanding leap and marks well overhead. He is a capable set shot for goal and booted a stunning bag of seven against the Western Jets in Round 4 of the 2018 TAC Cup.

Me too. He’s a great looking player.

JSOS currently only ever shown talent as a forward

Currently showing talent as an inside midfielder. I’d suggest if he doesn’t work out as an inside mid he’ll by tried down back. If that doesn’t work he’ll be delisted. Obviously that gives him a few years but I think he’s no longer included in the forwards group.

Funny how TDK hasn't played a game as primarily a ruckman for blues, and has played all games as a forward/ruck - but it not considered a forward option?

Hard for him to spend majority of time in the ruck yet. He’s still learning and is sharing ruck time with Lobbe Phillips and Milham. He’s spent more time in the ruck the last two weeks. His work around the ground is great. He won’t be predominantly forward.

So of a Nick Graham matrix then... Nick isn't on my retire/delist line just yet although he is around the fringe with a few others. Mostly those we grabbed this year actually.

You are probably right though that maybe we are better looking elsewhere. The same could probably be said for Oskar Manton as well.

Nicky G puzzles me. I’ve got quite a few mates who think he’s a decent player and should be left in the team. Richmond supporting mates say they’d love to have him. I dunno... I still think anyone who is that much better than vfl standard is always a chance to click at Afl level. Hopefully he does.

I want a blue chip mid/s not a good to solid mid.
I will be extremely pissed if we don’t go mids on first 3 selections

You’re going to be really pissed off then.

We will get a huge bounty off Adelaide for Pick 1 in that case. Adelaide are probably the best planners and developers in the comp. I believe with Tex and Jerker(and Eddie) reaching the end, they have planned their future around hometown(no go home factor) boys Fogarty and Lukosius.

They have accrued a bounty of Picks already for this year plus they may add another one for Sloane(although i doubt he leaves). I believe they'll pay what they have to to get Lukosius.

We are in a position( having Charlie, Harry, TDK and Kerr on the books) to accept a huge bounty for Lukosius. Live trading on draft night will give SOS and his team the ability to mould that bounty into what we need.

Have a strong gut feeling that Bailey Smith will be our main target in Nov.

You might be on to something. Hope whoever has pick one makes them pay a kings ransom.


Think I caught up on 40 pages worth.

Gee I’m excited for the champs.

 

[Matty411]

Interested to hear more as to why we might be so into Bailey Smith TerryWallet ? Where's the talk coming from?

 

[TerryWallet]

Interested to hear more as to why we might be so into Bailey Smith TerryWallet ? Where's the talk coming from?

The talk is only coming from my gut so far Matty lol.

Smith is a top end quality young mid. Ball magnet. Solid build and height. Good pace. Good skills. Leader. He also trained with us over summer.

Future midfield - Big Patty Cripps and MK. Nippy SPS, Fish and Obrien. Quality midrangers Dow and Smith.

 

[bmaurizio]

I like Bailey Smith after Rankine he would be my choice a smaller midfielder about 184 . He's a complete midfielder beautiful kick, very good production, strong accumulater. He's only weahness zero X factor

 

[Matty411]

The talk is only coming from my gut so far Matty lol.

Smith is a top end quality young mid. Ball magnet. Solid build and height. Good pace. Good skills. Leader. He also trained with us over summer.

Future midfield - Big Patty Cripps and MK. Nippy SPS, Fish and Obrien. Quality midrangers Dow and Smith.

How about Walsh? If we pick outside #1 you'd think we'd go for a mid and he's all the rage atm.

 

[Pinnell]

Interested to hear more as to why we might be so into Bailey Smith TerryWallet ? Where's the talk coming from?

Now I can put two and two together... he plays with Ben? SOS been seeing plenty of him...

 

[Matty411]

Now I can put two and two together... he plays with Ben? SOS been seeing plenty of him...

I did see he was captain for Oakleigh and playing at Xavier... so I'm starting to see the dots being connected.

 

[Jimmae]

I did see he was captain for Oakleigh and playing at Xavier... so I'm starting to see the dots being connected.

Must be awkward for him every time he walks out for Sandringham then....

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Exactly. Their second and our third looks like they will pretty much cancel each other out and pick 19 this year it a lot better then 16 last year. They pretty much got him for pick 10. It's about what you would expect

 

[Pinnell]

Must be awkward for him every time he walks out for Sandringham then....

Plays at Xaviar, as you would know Jimmae

 

[Matty411]

Must be awkward for him every time he walks out for Sandringham then....

My recollection of this was clearly wrong! Would be very awkward indeed.

 

[skadoosh]

Eeek. This strategy leaves us paper thin at each end of the ground. We’ve got no young talls down back behind Macreadie. With Rowe Asos n a few others close to done we need to build a little more depth. Also, what happens if McKay doesn’t work out? There’s minimal key forward options on our list. Charlie will play his best footy if he can’t be double teamed. He needs help. Lukosius will provide that. Imagine his brilliant leading to the wings or high half forward. Strong mark and the hitting Curnow on the lead. That combination is potentially deadly and something not many teams have access to or the ability to stop. A midfield of Cripps Kennedy Sps fisher Dow lob maybe a gaff/wallis and role players in cunners JSos polson Garlett and Pickett is almost enough. I understand the want to improve that area but if we’re patient we almost have the cattle there.

My biggest concern with rankine is how well he transitions into the midfield at Afl level. He’s not incredible around stoppages or with contested ball. If, say, the choice is put to you as a generational mobile key forward or a very good explosive small half forward who would you take ? To me that is definitely lukosius. However we have to watch the champs for this to become clearer in my opinion.


Kerr by no means will make it. Or is close. He’s trying his guts out though. Ben Silvagni has hardly played any footy worth watching and judging. Let’s see if he makes and plays champs well before we decide he’s going to even be drafted. TDK is more likely a replacement for kreuzer than a KPF. I wouldn’t be lumping him in under the KPP umbrella.



Lukosius in exposed form is the best player in the draft.

Just to have a quick look at balance and need. Our potential best 22 in 2020 with players currently on the list could look like this:

Fb: Plowman Weitering Docherty
Hb: Cuningham Macreadie Marchbank
C: Fisher E Curnow Williamson
Hf: SPS C Curnow Pickett
Ff: Garlett McKay Polson
R: Kreuzer/TDK Cripps Kennedy
I/c: Lob Dow Kerridge Lang

No murphy or other seniors, obviously ideal world without injuries but how else are we supposed to project and hence debate.
Midfield is not a huge issue for this team in my opinion. I’d like a small defender so Cuningham can push into the midfield and I think we’d be hoping Sps and Kennedy become good to very good players but I’ve got no reason to think they won’t yet. Highly rated juniors who are still very young in their Afl careers. We’d also have still have graham type players, JSos who we are re modelling at the moment, Schumacher, multiple other draft picks, and a free agent or two. I honestly see the biggest need in that team is the front 6. Lukosius in that team is mouthwatering. It’s more transformative than Rankine slotting I’m in my opinion.



Exactly. So many supporters lose their s**t at players who look like they don’t know what they’re doing/ kick it long to no one... it’s cause we’ve got no one in the team who consistently leads to the right place. Midfielders with no options look s**t on tv, when it’s their team mates letting them down.



Look at the team I’ve just written above. That midfield is not slow. Now, Compare it to the best midfields in the comp at the moment and it compares very evenly. Richmond are running around with Lambert Grigg Cotchin Prestia Caddy and Martin. None are fast. Geelong have Selwood x2 Ablett Duncan Menegola kelly and Dangerfield. I’d suggest Dow fisher Cuningham Sps Cripps Kennedy lob Lang is faster overall. Then we’d have Willo Garlett and Pickett outside, they’re all quick.



Riewoldt was a champ. He made those players better. In s**t saints teams his numbers never dropped. Absolute gun.



Me too. He’s a great looking player.



Currently showing talent as an inside midfielder. I’d suggest if he doesn’t work out as an inside mid he’ll by tried down back. If that doesn’t work he’ll be delisted. Obviously that gives him a few years but I think he’s no longer included in the forwards group.



Hard for him to spend majority of time in the ruck yet. He’s still learning and is sharing ruck time with Lobbe Phillips and Milham. He’s spent more time in the ruck the last two weeks. His work around the ground is great. He won’t be predominantly forward.



Nicky G puzzles me. I’ve got quite a few mates who think he’s a decent player and should be left in the team. Richmond supporting mates say they’d love to have him. I dunno... I still think anyone who is that much better than vfl standard is always a chance to click at Afl level. Hopefully he does.



You’re going to be really pissed off then.


You might be on to something. Hope whoever has pick one makes them pay a kings ransom.


Think I caught up on 40 pages worth.

Gee I’m excited for the champs.

Agreed re: your point about speed in the midfield. Common denominator for a successful midfield? 1. Having a tank to run out 4 quarters. To be able to consistently impact contests not only in the first 10 mins of each quarter, but the last 5-10 mins. Notice a pattern of where we seem to play better and when we drop off? Yup, younger players don’t have the stamina required...yet.

2. Stronger bodies with solid cores. You take the hits, take the tackles and keep going.

 

[BluesRule]

Agreed re: your point about speed in the midfield. Common denominator for a successful midfield? 1. Having a tank to run out 4 quarters. To be able to consistently impact contests not only in the first 10 mins of each quarter, but the last 5-10 mins. Notice a pattern of where we seem to play better and when we drop off? Yup, younger players don’t have the stamina required...yet.

2. Stronger bodies with solid cores. You take the hits, take the tackles and keep going.

We have drafted kids who can run (have a tank relative to the other kids). If we develop them right they will run out games well for us and the stronger bodies are also building. Just need to be patient, work really hard and have a lot of luck.

 

[BluesRule]

I think they overpaid based on shelf life. They are in their window so have gone for it and paid for it.

People often forget about shelf life. Gibbs will be long gone soon. And even if he does play on 3 more, some of those years wont be at an elite level and might even be injured as age plays a part.

I'd agree we gave up an elite player. I'd also say he has only been elite from around 25+. Conditional player before that.

Fair enough Adelaide have gone for a flag, but they overpaid IMO.

Loved Gibbs at CFC and really hope things go well for him, but hopefully not 100 games for Adelaide as we will want his Son in the future.

 

[cfc05]

I didn't edit what you said. I moved parts around so I answered two questions at once, but I didn't actually change any of your wording.

I said “Your first line is just completely false!”


The first line in your comment was “That's assuming all those key forwards pan out. How many actually do pan out though?”


My next line proceeded to say “If we both agree we have X amount of key forwards on our list, then we have X amount of key forwards on our list. It does not assume any number of them pan out, regardless of how many "pan out", we still have X amount of key forwards on our list next year and most likely the year after. Recent successful teams have half the key positions players we do on our list.”


Just to clarify what that comment was in relation to it was in relation to the amount of key forwards on our list and your comment about them "panning out".

Your quoting of me, whilst not changing any words, was a classic gutter journalism tactic of re organising quotes to have a completely different meaning. I must apologise though, you did not edit a quote to give it a different context as I suggested, you edited a post and “moved parts” to give what I was saying a different context.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

The talk is only coming from my gut so far Matty lol.

Smith is a top end quality young mid. Ball magnet. Solid build and height. Good pace. Good skills. Leader. He also trained with us over summer.

Future midfield - Big Patty Cripps and MK. Nippy SPS, Fish and Obrien. Quality midrangers Dow and Smith.

IIRC Todd Elton trained with us one summer.

Academy kids get rationed to the clubs. Geelong had Walsh.

 

[HARKER]

AFL Draft 2018: Pick 1, top 10 prospects, order, date, AFL Draft Watch, Nick Daicos

The general, industry-wide view is that South Australia’s Jack Lukosius is the Pick 1 favourite at the moment. So highly rated is Lukosius that he’s being dubbed one of the best and most unique tall talents ever seen at his age.

High acclaim indeed.

Early days of course, but if this guy does prove to ve everything that is being said about him, SOS just has to find other ways to acquire quality mids.
You just can't pass on a tall of his calibre because we need mids. SOS goes to plan B and makes good. Simple.

TOP 10 POWER RANKINGS

1. Jack Lukosius (Woodville-West Torrens/South Australia)
2. Max King (Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro)
3. Nick Blakey (Sydney Swans Academy/Allies)
4. Tarryn Thomas (North Launceston/North Melbourne Academy/Tasmania/Allies)
5. Bailey Smith (Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro)
6. Sam Walsh (Geelong Falcons/Vic Country)
7. Izak Rankine (West Adelaide/South Australia)
8. Ben King (Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro)
9. Ian Hill (Perth/Western Australia)
10. Jackson Hately (Central District/South Australia)

No Rozee here yet, but that doesn't matter if he keeps tracking the way he's going

 

[Arr0w]

AFL Draft 2018: Pick 1, top 10 prospects, order, date, AFL Draft Watch, Nick Daicos



High acclaim indeed.

Early days of course, but if this guy does prove to ve everything that is being said about him, SOS just has to find other ways to acquire quality mids.
You just can't pass on a tall of his calibre because we need mids. SOS goes to plan B and makes good. Simple.

TOP 10 POWER RANKINGS

1. Jack Lukosius (Woodville-West Torrens/South Australia)
2. Max King (Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro)
3. Nick Blakey (Sydney Swans Academy/Allies)
4. Tarryn Thomas (North Launceston/North Melbourne Academy/Tasmania/Allies)
5. Bailey Smith (Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro)
6. Sam Walsh (Geelong Falcons/Vic Country)
7. Izak Rankine (West Adelaide/South Australia)
8. Ben King (Sandringham Dragons/Vic Metro)
9. Ian Hill (Perth/Western Australia)
10. Jackson Hately (Central District/South Australia)

No Rozee here yet, but that doesn't matter if he keeps tracking the way he's going

Rozee is getting more minutes through the midfield, i see him as a more dangerous version of Florent

 

[HARKER]

My current 'no ******* idea' top five for Carlton:

1. Lukosius
2. Walsh
3. Rozee
4. Rankine
5. M. King

Should be into Hately, but just can't do it yet. May have to swing over soon enough.
I like Smiths profile but just haven't seen anything yet.
Just not excited about Hill for us.

Not sure why I even posted this, but I did.

 

[HARKER]

Rozee is getting more minutes through the midfield, i see him as a more dangerous version of Florent

Apparently kicked 2 goals and had 9 possessions in the first quarter and then scored an injury.
Just seems to be the right fit for us, this far out.

Pretty sure SOS really liked Florent and Hayward in '15