the flying ham
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Opinion Commentary & Media III
- Thread starter Kangaroos4eva
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- Apr 8, 2010
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I haven’t done one myself, but have you had a recent crack at a Round 1 team? I’m just interested in who you think doesn’t make the cut if Tyson is in the team.
Snake_Baker
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Something like:
Thompson, Tarrant, Williams
MacMillan, McKay, McDonald
Hall, Jacobs, Polec
Atley, Wood, Garner
Turner, Brown, Ziebell
Goldstein, Higgins, Cunnington
Tyson, Simpkin, Anderson, Dumont, Ahern, Walker, EVW, LDU, Wright, Pittard
Turner has to be on thin ice. A small forward who doesn’t kick many goals, no matter how much pressure he brings to the table is a liability.
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Pykie
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Atleys going to the bench before Dumont.
Hell, Dumont had a better second half of the year than Polec, let alone Hall.
He’s one of the first on the team sheet based off of his 2018.
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Scott Thompson shouldn't be in anyone's round 1 team.
Snake_Baker
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The Filth Wizard
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Hall to half forward in that team, I think he'll rotate with Higgins (with some bursts together).
Dumont to wing.
Atley would need a big pre-season to guarantee a bench spot, considering you'd almost lock in Tyson, Jed, Simpkin and Pittard/EVW (for defensive cover).
Snake_Baker
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They didn't bring Hall on the list to lock down HBF's.
He'll play wing, or maybe HBF.
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I'm only looking at the round one team and presupposing what his pre-season form and fitness is going to be like. Plenty can change. I personally think he'll be more damaging at HFF than coming off HB (especially as we have a queue for those spots) as we work out what our rotations are. And I'd rather have him defensively accountable more forward than the wing until we see him walking the walk on the talk the known defensive side of his game has been made a priority.
Either way, if Atley is in our round one side he has had a ripper pre-season.
Snake_Baker
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I am of the view that modern HFF is primarily a lock down position on rebounding defenders, with attack on the counter once a turnover has been made.
As for critiques about my team, I was asked to give a view and my team was not literal.
Hence: "Something like"
Thompson, Tarrant, Williams
MacMillan, McKay, McDonald
Hall, Jacobs, Polec
Atley, Wood, Garner
Turner, Brown, Ziebell
Goldstein, Higgins, Cunnington
Tyson, Simpkin, Anderson, Dumont, Ahern, Walker, EVW, LDU, Wright, Pittard
Okay, Thompson doesn't play round 1, so it's a ball park best 22 side.
Tyson, Simpkin, Anderson, Dumont, Ahern and LDU are in the midfield depth group
Simpkin and Walker can be forward depth.
EVW, Wright, Pittard are defensive depth.
Who knows what will happen between now and the season getting underway in regards to injury, form, and the impact of the recruits on the rest of the playing list?
Going by past good form, and the belief I have in the impact the recruits will have on the side, this is roughly my best side.
The quality of the blokes on the bench should give rise to a very confident outlook, and a highly expected finals berth.
Snake_Baker
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I think the impact of Hall, Polec, and Tyson, along with improvement in McDonald, Simpkin and Anderson, combined with a fit Ben Jacobs is going to make a lot of people re-analyse how they viewed the Turner, Garner, Atley and hopefully Hrovat.
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I did.
I think if the coaching staff is hell bent on playing Polec/Hall off of the wings, Dumont get's shifted to the HFF as a high possession winning HFF'r.
He averaged 24.8 touches, 4+ tackles a game the second half of the season, the only person with better numbers at the club was Higgins.
In that same period of time Atley averaged 16 touches, 0.5 goals a game and 2.6 tackles.
You really think he's not expendable?
Atley is in the VFL before Dumont is even close to the last position of the bench.
Champion Data ranked him the 4th best wingman in the competition and we can't find a spot for him in a side with 2 players averaging over 21 disposals a game?
Snake_Baker
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I see Trent going in the mix with Polec, Hall, and Simpkin as the rotating wingmen.
Put him in the starting 18 and put one of the others on the bench if you like. I certainly wouldn't be critical. If you want to push me to name a literal 22, then he's in.
It's not an either/or scenario between Atley and Dumont, and Trent's no HFF'r.
As a HFF? No.
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Unpopular view - Turner over Garner if it came down to these 2.
There will be several players either drifting from the midfield or stationed up forward capable of providing a "small" offensive threat - Ziebell, Anderson, Hall, Atley, Simpkin et al. That's before factoring in any possible HF output from Scott, TT or LDU.
Turner is close to unmatched for his ability to run out 4 quarters applying defensive pressure. His only threat in 2018 was Hrovat who has shown nowhere near the same coverage and defensive ability. In 2019 there's talk of Wilkinson being able to provide the same attributes but lets see.
Garner has great upside but has more suitors for his role.
There will be several players either drifting from the midfield or stationed up forward capable of providing a "small" offensive threat - Ziebell, Anderson, Hall, Atley, Simpkin et al. That's before factoring in any possible HF output from Scott, TT or LDU.
Turner is close to unmatched for his ability to run out 4 quarters applying defensive pressure. His only threat in 2018 was Hrovat who has shown nowhere near the same coverage and defensive ability. In 2019 there's talk of Wilkinson being able to provide the same attributes but lets see.
Garner has great upside but has more suitors for his role.
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Yes and no.
Whilst they are a lot more defensive minded than they once were, pretty much all the best ones have one thing in common. They all keep their direct opponents honest because they kick goals on them.
They average over 1+ goals a game and hurt the opposition offensively.
All of Castagna (1.18) , Caddy (2.09), Butler (1.2), Rioli (1.18) kick goals.
De Goey (2.29), Mihocek (1.81), WHE (1.62), J.Thomas (1.46), Stephenson (1.46) all kick goals and keep their defenders honest.
Atley (0.73), Hrovat (0.58), Turner (0.36), Simpkin (0.55) can tackle all they want, but their defenders won't respect them until they start kicking goals on them. That small forward unit is one of, if not the worst in the league for offensive impact.
Snake_Baker
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It's a career defining season for Nathan.
He's got 64 games under his belt now, must go up a level, and I agree that Wilkinson looks ready to challenge early in the season.
As for Kayne, people are undervaluing his contribution when he was playing in stronger sides.
Snake_Baker
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The elephant in this room is that Richmond and Collingwood have gun midfields.
If you believe this has little significance on these numbers, then we're not going to reach any consensus.
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Wilkinson has a much bigger motor than Turner, I think that's been evident in all the pre-season media.
I love Turner's intent, but I think we need to stop re-writing history. Turner averaged 3 tackles a game, not exactly 5 or 6+ is it?
JZ topped the club for I50 tackle averages last year.....let that sink in for a minute.... despite almost topping the league in shots on goal for a medium forward.
Ben Cunnington and Jarrad Waite averaged more I50 tackles than Turner last year.......
For a guy who averages 11 touches a game who kicked 8 goals for the entire season and who's whole purpose in the side is F50 pressure, he wasn't in the top 100 players in the league and was 10th at the club, with the likes of Ziebell, Zurhaar, Cunnington, Waite, Hartung, Higgins, Atley, Anderson, & Simpkin all ahead of him.
He averaged 0.06 more tackles per game inside 50 than Nathan Hrovat.
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- Sep 13, 2013
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Have you ever done a best 22? They always seem to be best 28s.
Pykie
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Actually no, Richmond don't really have a gun midfield.
They have the best forward line in the league and a very very good defence, an especially great intercept defensive unit.
Champion Data ranks our midfield better than Richmonds in 2019.
We were 16th in the comp for clearances in 2018, Richmond were 17th.
Richmond usually concede the clearances, intercept the ball across half back and move it into their forward line, once they get it in, their half forwards work their assess off until they score, said forwards keep the ball in until they kick a goal. Rinse and repeat.
I'm surprised you all people think Richmonds game plan revolves around midfield superiority, in fact it's the complete opposite, it's about intercept marking/forward pressure.
Snake_Baker
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The North Melbourne 2014 side was a good micro-sample of this.
Heading into finals the midfield/HF rotation included high quality users in NDS, Wells, Swallow, Cunnington and Boomer and productive grunts in Gibson, Ziebell and Greenwood the latter blanketing opponents while amassing big numbers himself. LT up forward was an ever-present threat who demanded an accountable defender.
Therefore although he was only a very green player (hell still in high school) Turner was able to free wheel and play the part of human pinball with aplomb.
If our side reaches a similar standard in 2019+ no reason he can't produce a more productive version of the same role.
Pykie
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Pressure ratings is a deep CD ranking system which I don't have access to.
Ben Jacobs had our highest average rating per game.
Which was the 3rd lowest club leading average rating of the 18 clubs.
So I can't imagine they rank too highly competition wide.
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