Tiger Family World Cup Cricket Chat (Opposition Welcome)

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Meteoric Rise said:
Haha. Yes as it happens, I often get complaints about my criticism of movies. Usually from women... :)

You guys don't seem to know what is happening. I am in constant contact with several other experienced full time cricket watchers both here in the UK and also one back in Australia, and I can tell you we are all of one voice on this issue so it is not like I am a rogue conspiracy theorist on cricket corruption. I am sorry if it bursts your bubble but you really are better off knowing. Why I piped up about this match in particular is because it would have been obvious even to the most casual observer India made no real effort to win it. Scoring 1 for 72 in the last ten overs of their innings when 104 were needed for victory does not leave any room for doubt on that score. And did you get the explanations from the Indian camp as to why Mahendra "take it deep" Dhoni made no apparent effort to win? Astoundingly, even commentators were murmuring about it.
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Meteoric Rise said:
Do you have a position on the current state of the integrity of major cricket matches? I mean, do you actually believe there is no corruption? And if you believe there is some, how do you think it is organised and what is the level of corruption? I am genuinely interested to know your view on this.
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I watched England bat and saw them make a competitive score on a good wicket after an excellent opening partnership.
India tightened up in the middle overs and Bumrah is a gun!
The fact that India started and finished poorly may have been because England bowled and fielded well... just a theory.

I believe that the integrity of the teams at the World Cup and series like The Ashes is intact... individual integrity is always fallible.
The Indian Board of Control have too much influence on the structure of international cricket, IMO but they are not, nor are CA and ECB, orchestrating outcomes like it's the WWE!! Also, just my opinion.
 

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This Is Anfield said:
Do you go see a movie with friends and afterwards point out all the plot inconsistencies and continuity fails and completely destroy any enjoyment they may have got from the movie?
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Raiders of the lost ark. Ending would be the same regardless of whether indy was there or not 😜
 
tigerdan said:
Raiders of the lost ark. Ending would be the same regardless of whether indy was there or not 😜
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I can't remember much about it!!
701839
What is out of place in this scene from Last Of The Mohicans?
 
This Is Anfield said:
I watched England bat and saw them make a competitive score on a good wicket after an excellent opening partnership.
India tightened up in the middle overs and Bumrah is a gun!
The fact that India started and finished poorly may have been because England bowled and fielded well... just a theory.

I believe that the integrity of the teams at the World Cup and series like The Ashes is intact... individual integrity is always fallible.
The Indian Board of Control have too much influence on the structure of international cricket, IMO but they are not, nor are CA and ECB, orchestrating outcomes like it's the WWE!! Also, just my opinion.
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Thanks for posting your view. It is admirably faithful but does leave a few things unexplained of course...

Just focus on India's slow last 10 overs because it is easy to figure out. If India's low runs scored, 61 in the first 9 of those overs, was down to England's bowling and fielding and not India's lack of intent, then shouldn't more wickets have fallen? Or shouldn't India have started trying to loft the ball in search of boundaries when needing 10 then 11 then 12 then 13 then 14 then 15+ runs per over rather than appearing to attempt to get double figure run rates in singles, as they did? Kohli's ahem....explanation, where he seemed to be suggesting India batted on a different ground to the one they bowled and fielded on:

Virat Kohli: "Look every team has lost a a game here and there. No one likes to lose but you have to accept the other side played better. The mood is absolutely same in the change room, we understand as professional cricketers it's a setback. (The toss) was vital, specially looking at the boundary that was quite short. I think it was 59 metres which coincidentally is the minimum amount required in an international match. Quite bizarre on a flat pitch. It's crazy that things fall in place like that randomly. But we should have been clinical because the wicket was flat. We could have accelerated and got closer to their total. If batsmen are able to reverse sweep you for six on a 59 metre boundary there is not much you can do. And one side was 82 metres. Look they had to be a bit smart in the lines they bowled, but you can't do much with a short boundary. I thought they were going towards 360 at one stage and we did quite well to pull them back. We could have restricted them more but Ben played a good innings. We were quite happy at the break. We thought if we get a start we can get it but that didn't happen, we still had a partnership. When Pant and Pandya were in there we thought we had a decent chance. But England were better on the day.

There will be precisely zero official scrutiny about any of that. That is why they can be so lax and so blatant. In fact, Virat Kohli could block every single ball he faces for the remainder of the WC and never have to answer a single official question for it. So could any player.

When you say individual integrity is fallible, I believe you are correct. So are you by extension saying you believe that there are instances of corrupt play by individual players? If there are, then what are the authorities doing about it?

- No players EVER caught deliberately under-performing by ICC anti corruption staff(almost 20 years existence and at least 12 full time staff.)
- No instances of corrupt play EVER identified by ICC anti-corruption staff
- ICC anti-corruption staff are at pains to tell the world mobile phones are banned from dressing rooms because of the corruption threat they pose. Yet unfettered internet access is allowed in the same dressing rooms, presumably because corrupting forces are so dumb they cannot work out how to communicate with players via the internet in the absence of mobile phones.
- People from the dressing room are allowed to constantly run messages out to players on the field, so there are two easy avenues for authority to make corruption more difficult to organise that have been magically overlooked forever, why would that be?
- There is no record and no evidence, not even any claim by the ICC of any player ever having been questioned by authorities over unsatisfactory play like India's conclusion to their batting innings yesterday. Why? In horse racing stewards would question anything that didn't look right, and take action if required. In cricket, nothing!
- ICC anti-corruption head makes statements prior to the 2019 WC along the lines they know who the corrupting people are and they have been uninvited to the WC and if they are seen there they will be asked to leave. Can you even believe that? Don't you stop to question why a person in this position would make such a foolish and limp statement?

I could go on, but in this environment, how could corruption possibly not be thriving? Why would the ICC Anti-Corruption Unit not act to set up a more robust anti-corruption system unless they were under instruction to not do so from the ICC, who is controlled by the BCCI, who is known to be corrupt? And why would this be the case if corruption in the sport was not institutionalised? I don't suppose most people care about all this stuff, easier not to think about it.

Put it this way, if our police did not investigate crime, do you think criminals would fail to take advantage?

Look out for: in the semi-final or final the Australian bowlers mysteriously losing their line and length, and with it the WC. Or the batsmen mysteriously surrendering their wickets meekly or batting inexplicably slowly or all of these things...and commentators saying they didn't perform on the big stage...and what a great turnaround by England or great performance by India...
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Haha. Yes as it happens, I often get complaints about my criticism of movies. Usually from women... :)

You guys don't seem to know what is happening. I am in constant contact with several other experienced full time cricket watchers both here in the UK and also one back in Australia, and I can tell you we are all of one voice on this issue so it is not like I am a rogue conspiracy theorist on cricket corruption. I am sorry if it bursts your bubble but you really are better off knowing. Why I piped up about this match in particular is because it would have been obvious even to the most casual observer India made no real effort to win it. Scoring 1 for 72 in the last ten overs of their innings when 104 were needed for victory does not leave any room for doubt on that score. And did you get the explanations from the Indian camp as to why Mahendra "take it deep" Dhoni made no apparent effort to win? Astoundingly, even commentators were murmuring about it.
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WTF is a “full time cricket watcher” and who do I need to pay off to get that job?
 
Meteoric Rise said:
You would be picking the wrong moment to get involved.

I have made my living betting on cricket for around 15 years. If you try that now you will pay through the nose....
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Not really. Every game is fixed so you just need to know who to pay off
 
Sir_Loin said:
Not really. Every game is fixed so you just need to know who to pay off
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Well if you find out who to pay off let me know. I would like to punch them in the face. :mad:

Here is a thing. High scoring innings, Sri Lanka get 338, 319 of those off the bat. In normal circumstances a decent bat taking a free shot at a 6(either last ball 6 to win or a free hit after a no ball) will hit a 6 about every 4-5 attempts if my memory serves, and a boundary(4 or 6) would occur better than once in three attempts. In this innings WI bowled 5 no balls, each of which created free hits. The results of the free hits(off the bat) were 0 0 1 1 1. 3 runs off 5 free hits. So SL scored at a slower rate off the 5 free hits than they did off the other 295 legit deliveries. I think the average expectancy off 5 free hits would be something like 12-13 runs. If somebody knew this was going to happen in advance after the mysterious 4 byes on the first free hit you would make very decent money just trading the match odds price.

It would be very illuminating to see the results of all free hits in this fiasco of a tournament, and then take out all the full tosses and rank short balls or length balls from the sample - so as to remove the deliveries where the bowler has deliberately tried to concede maximum runs. The average expectancy should be comfortably over 2 runs per free hit where both the batsman and bowler execute genuinely. I would not mind betting in this tournament it is well below that, closer to or even less than 1.
 
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Meteoric Rise said:
Well if you find out who to pay off let me know. I would like to punch them in the face. :mad:

Here is a thing. High scoring innings, Sri Lanka get 338, 319 of those off the bat. In normal circumstances a decent bat taking a free shot at a 6(either last ball 6 to win or a free hit after a no ball) will hit a 6 about every 4-5 attempts if my memory serves, and a boundary(4 or 6) would occur better than once in three attempts. In this innings WI bowled 5 no balls, each of which created free hits. The results of the free hits(off the bat) were 0 0 1 1 1. 3 runs off 5 free hits. So SL scored at a slower rate off the 5 free hits than they did off the other 295 legit deliveries. I think the average expectancy off 5 free hits would be something like 12-13 runs. If somebody knew this was going to happen in advance after the mysterious 4 byes on the first free hit you would make very decent money just trading the match odds price.

It would be very illuminating to see the results of all free hits in this fiasco of a tournament, and then take out all the full tosses and rank short balls or length balls from the sample - so as to remove the deliveries where the bowler has deliberately tried to concede maximum runs. The average expectancy should be comfortably over 2 runs per free hit where both the batsman and bowler execute genuinely. I would not mind betting in this tournament it is well below that, closer to or even less than 1.
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Or because a batsman knows they have a free hit they premeditate or swing too hard instead of playing each ball on it's merits... or they are human.
As a full time cricket watcher, how many people do you feel will be in on "The Fix" of a cricket tournament involving 10 squads and all the administration, support and families etc?
And how do you manage to keep it all under wraps?
 
This Is Anfield said:
Or because a batsman knows they have a free hit they premeditate or swing too hard instead of playing each ball on it's merits... or they are human.
As a full time cricket watcher, how many people do you feel will be in on "The Fix" of a cricket tournament involving 10 squads and all the administration, support and families etc?
And how do you manage to keep it all under wraps?
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The outcome of the free hits today could be random, or it could be caused by 5 brilliant free hit deliveries, or 5 organic batting malfunctions, of course. I am merely giving it as an illustrative example to show how you can make good money quickly from knowing in advance the outcome of a number of events such as that within an innings. I chose this as an example because I see the usual fixer's pattern there, creating situations to trigger astute people to make bets of apparent value then ensure the outcome is unfavourable to those value punters.

If your explanation was correct then why is the average expectancy on a free hit over 2 runs but the corresponding expectancy on a ball carrying normal jeopardy is under 1 run? Surely if premeditation or swinging too hard and not playing each ball on its merits had a negative impact on scores from free hits then free hits would have an average expectancy below a normal ball? And why would a batsman's humanity negatively affect his ability to score off a free hit when compared to other humans? That makes little sense to me. I know you are only giving these as possible explanations but there are an awful lot of these counter intuitive things happening in these matches.

I am an outsider to any corruption that is occurring so of course I have no reliable way of saying precisely how it might work. But using my imagination, and my knowledge of resources available and patterns I have noticed, here goes one possible explanation....

- there is no "fix" they are all in on, no need, that sort of thinking is way out of date
- there are just instructions given to each player and each may not know how his teammates are instructed.(have seen many examples of where one batsman is fed with balls that are easy to score from and his teammate face real bowling for eg)
- the above would keep emotional reactions of players realistic. So say A opens the batting, B opens the batting and C bats at 3, D bats 4. They are all informed to look on their laptop for instructions prior to the match. A is told try to ensure you are dismissed in the first over, if not, as soon after that as possible. B is instructed to bat genuinely erring on the side of aggression in the first ten overs, then slow and try to run D out before the 30 over mark.. C is instructed you should be in early you must not be aggressive under any circumstances, but you must try to stay in to the 40th over if possible, getting out as near to that time as possible...
- the bowlers are also instructed similarly, bowl properly in the first ten overs, then bowl 2 no balls and at least 3 full tosses in your second spell, bowl properly at the end, but not to batsman F, feed him 2-3 boundaries at least
- the players may have no idea who else in their team or in the opposition is "instructed" or even if anyone is, they may think they are the only guilty party and this is why they feel the need to keep quiet
- a betting/bookmaking team armed with all these instructions goes to work just trading in and out of positions as the innings/match unfolds according to who is facing and who is bowling.
- so it is not just a matter of let's back England at even money and sit back and relax. This is massively more lucrative than that. Armed with all the likely player behaviours through many twists and turns in a match you might be getting odds of 10-1 or 20-1 or higher effectively. Every match and in markets where over US$1 billion are bet.

Watch carefully and you will see the unnatural tendency for players in batting and bowling partnerships to appear disconnected. The high prevalence of this is a very new phenomenon. previously fixes tended to go the way you are imagining, all the bowlers bowl properly until late then they all bowl rubbish, or all the batsmen smash early then stop trying to score later. This new stuff is way more subtle, way more sophisticated than that.

How they are getting all the players in I have no idea but it is apparent they are. Compromising photos from IPL stints? That is an old gangland favourite from way back. Threats, bribes, I just don't know. Perhaps they convince the players the money made is desperately needed to fight poverty in stricken areas, I have no certain idea. But it is happening. I have been privy to advice from one investigative journalist a few years back who named some names he could not divulge publicly, and when I watched those people(both players and non players) let's just say I had little reason to doubt the information I was given. But even that is out of date, because from about 12 months ago I believe something changed to broaden the net to include just about every player, if not every player. For absolute certain at a bare minimum every major player who goes to the IPL gets doctored these days.
 

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Tiger Toffee said:
Is someone seriously questioning India's loss to England or are they just upset because they may have dropped a bundle betting on India considering they claim to make their living from betting on cricket. :think:
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So let me get this straight....you would expect a person who had lost a lot of money on a cricket match to come here casting false aspersions on the match, and into the bargain falsely claim to make their living from betting on cricket? Why?

I don't mind being disagreed with, or told that people don't want to hear what I have to say about matters of integrity in cricket, others can judge the merits of all of that stuff for themselves. But your post is a weak and baseless attempt at suggesting I am a liar who would deliberately mislead others here.

To be clear, I understand and accept my posts on this thread are not popular. But my posts are definitely sincere, and I want everyone here to know that.
 
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