Toast Round 6 = Collingwood 59-27 Hawthorn

[left at home]

Thing is Bucks could do it all - forward, pivot, wing and even defense.
And always loaded . . that booming pass whether 30 meters or up to bloody seventy - hard, flat and perfectly spun.

Yes he could, but for short passes, he needed a little less booming and a little more touch

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yes he could, but for short passes, he needed a little less booming and a little more touch

He worked that out little flaw early in his career.

 

[Robroy22]

I've seen good marks fail to hold chest marks when Bucks searing missiles slam into their chests.

Certainly heard of them and watched all of their careers.

All great players - especially John - but none of them equal Bucks in the kicking area.

And Daicos? Or Colin Tully?

 

[Robroy22]

Barry’s short passes were the best l have seen, but for sixty meter passes it’s hard not to say bucks.

Pricey's were nothing compared to Thorold Merrett's stab passes!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

A quick look at the ladder. We are half a win off second spot ( and that’s assuming Port wins this weekend, otherwise we are half a game off top).

If the Suns win this weekend there will be at least four teams half a game in front of us on the ladder simply because they have played the Crows and we havent yet. Adelaide are a complete rabble.

We haven’t played any of the bottom six teams yet.

The next three weeks will be crucial. If we can jag a win against at least one of Geelong or the Eagles plus beat Freo it will be all downhill skiing after that. Most of the good teams will be behind us and a very good draw looming for the run home.

 

[Cyclops]

My feeling is we got a little help from the umps (at last they are sick of Clarkson's repellent personality) and the footy Gods helped us too (Wingard three or four on the full) but even allowing for that, our list and our coach, even with multiple key players (Howe is our best or second best defender, De Goey our most explosive player and Sidey second or third best mid) absent overpowered their list and their coach with only a few top players out. Clarkson is a very skilled coach and I think he even managed a few tactical wins (they had a spate of marks inside fifty 20-30 metres out, luckily they missed half of them). I thinkthey took beating and we got the job done, it wasn't a steamroller but a hard fight.

Funny to say but I rate that win, it was ugly but it meant something to beat a hoodoo side. Bucks was prepared to really throw them around: Elliot in the square was a nice experiment, Stevo down back gave him a change of scene (not that he needed sprucing up, its just really good education) so he made sure we were not predictable. Ceglar actually played brilliantly on Grundy, he was merely beaten not thrashed, and Grundy's run in the third (one on four!) was a pearler.

Clarkson is by no means gone as a coach,. There have been a couple of points in his career when he lost the players. I believe 2010 was one such, in Sam Mitchell's book he says he asked to be traded to Collingwood at the start of 2011, and Clarkson was stunned "we have a good relationship" he said but Mitchell said "we all hate you" and they sorted it out=3 flags. If Kennett sacks him it will be utter stupidity, he rebuilt the Hawks in 2006 (a very ugly season) and again in 2011. Both time he had Mitchell and Hodge and Roughead, this time he has spare parts, nutcases and scrapheap players. He did make Brian Lake into a great FB, gave Burgoyne a heart transplant and found ways to use Dew and Gunston (all very flawed players at their old clubs).

 

[left at home]

Pricey's were nothing compared to Thorold Merrett's stab passes!

Read about him, just before my time, so take your word on that

 

[No SPIN]

I think its relevant to hunger and want to win at all costs.
I thinks its relevant to ability to score frequently and heavily.
I think our system will get you there to contend but not be good enough to beat a quality team with better offensive game much like 18.


I think the 18 GF shows exactly the concern I have with it.

2019 season how many games that year did we let the opposition back in the game to either get close to winning or actually winning the game after a great start? We played often 1 great quarter or 1.5 if we were having a good day and would just go to sleep.
11 first quarter wins before we lost one and we let many sides back in or beat us.

If you must bring up 2018 I could simply say with Moore we are now an even stronger defensive that which will make iteven more difficult to be scored against. Defence wins Finals not offense according to the experts.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'm calling it. Clarkson has failed at moneyball that the Hawks have historically been so successful at in prior years.

They have too many overpaid recruits from other clubs . A lot of them are not capable performing to the standard required of a top four club. Some of them are one dimensional, some are inoffensive possession accumulators, some have chronic injury, and some are flaky. Not naming names (fill in the blanks yourself) but just look at the number of "recruits"in last nights side. The number of list spots they have spent on these good ordinary players has seriously reduced their capacity to build from the ground up via youth development.

I see hard times coming up for Hawthorn.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

I'm calling it. Clarkson has failed at moneyball that the Hawks have historically been so successful at in prior years.

They have too many overpaid recruits from other clubs . A lot of them are not capable performing to the standard required of a top four club. Some of them are one dimensional, some are inoffensive possession accumulators, some have chronic injury, and some are flaky. Not naming names (fill in the blanks yourself) but just look at the number of "recruits"in last nights side. The number of list spots they have spent on these good ordinary players has seriously reduced their capacity to build from the ground up via youth development.

I see hard times coming up for Hawthorn.

To the Hawks credit, they're weren't stupid enough to trade Beams for pick 18.

 

[domus]

Lol....u never heard of the Richardson's, Greening and Barry Price?

In fact the players you mentioned were better than Buck's for much of his career because Buck's used to drill passes instead of using some touch and allowing players to run onto the pass which was something Wayne Richardson and Price often did to perfection. I think Dermie used to comment on Buck's overly aggressive footpasses early in his career.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

To the Hawks credit, they're weren't stupid enough to trade Beams for pick 18.

I was talking about Hawthorn so not sure of your point except to snipe.

On balance I’d prefer our list of players from other clubs to Hawthorns. We probably have fewer of them too, giving our list a better chance to develop home grown talent. Even with Beams wasting one of those spots.

 

[Cyclops]

My recollections on Buckley's kicking is this: he's the best long drop punt I have ever seen. There are so many examples, a win at the G against Geelong in 1995 I think (not the Ablett non-mark or the pinching game): We had them on the ropes but were still just under a goal down, kicking with swirling wind to the punt road end. Paul Williams and Gary Pert both got on the end of passes on the southern flank and missed: I don't need to tell you Williams was a very hard long accurate kick (regularly kicked bombs from outside 50), and Pert if anything a more accurate straight kick. Both missed narrowly, then Bucks had a shot from the same area,further out and slotted it. It was almost like a ranking event.with Bucks coming out on top.

He kicked drop punts from 60 metres out, and his long passes were like lightning bolts.

That said his bananas were merely above average, and his torps were not like Tony Rocca's, I'd say a little sloppy almost by comparison (they were very rare, I think I saw one at Docklands and it drew a roar that turned confused because it wasn;t very good in the end).

I think there's a case to be made for calling Buckley the best long drop punt ever. Best kick? I don't think so. Tony Lockett won a goal kicking test against Dunstall and Daicos once, a silly TV event but a reasonable test nevertheless. He could punt, torp, banana, grub, I bet he could drop kick (but I never saw it) and his short and long passing (rarely used) was as impressive as his kicking for goal, made Loewe look better than he was.

Having mentioned Daicos, the Macedonian Marvel could execute kicks no one ever thought of before, eg the grubbed banana so many players use these days. Daicos and Didak, had short passing better than Bucks and a wider repertoire. Surprisingly Shane Morwood was a brilliant kick, a regular for the kick in and wonderfully deft for the little loft or dab to pick out a team mate in just a spare metre. Tony Rocca was a better torp. Sav Rocca was only one level below Bucks as along drop punt: in 1995 his flat searing kicks clocked up 96 or so goals often from outside or right on 50.

I can think of easily a dozen players whose overall kicking ability matches or exceeds Bucks. Lockett, Daicos, Paul Couch (yes he was usually an ugly shanker but he could not be stopped from finding a team mate and thats what matters), Darren Jarman, Akermanis (as itrritating as he was he was a brilliant passer, snapper, dabber, goal kicker and lofter on both feet).

Buckley was an almost unbelievably consistent professional and his kicking was polished to a high sheen. My feeling is his kicking suffered after his leg injuries (was it an ankle?) and a series of hammies after 2000: did not stop him from being number 1 still, just by a lower margin IMHO. In the period 1996-1999 he was a terrifying thunderbolt of a kick and even when he began to fade he was still the best drop punt in the league.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Conversion is not really an issue just because we missed a few on one night. I don’t see any issues with our conversion generally except for JDG who didn’t even play last night.

We had 19 scoring shots, with that much leather should've had - at least - 25. Should've won by another 4 goals - at least.

Scoring is a major issue for us.

 

[Carringbush2010]

At this stage the cats are going well, but let’s see how they are towards the end of the season, they are getting old, l think the will tire by the end of the season

Maybe, what I meant to say in my previous post was you'd be brave to tip us - not the cats.

Cats maybe old but there are other teams that we need to get better than before we even look like contending.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We had 19 scoring shots, with that much leather should've had - at least - 25. Should've won by another 4 goals - at least.

Scoring is a major issue for us.

It was yesterday but I dont see that as a worrying trend over the season

 

[Carringbush2010]

It was yesterday but I dont see that as a worrying trend over the season

Actually it has been, when was the last time we kicked 100 pts?, 36 against tigs, 63? against the bomb outs and 59 last night, 2 goals in a half against the aints, 64 against giants........................ not looking good.

 

[Pistol Night]

Don’t care how we win gf, seen us have many seasons blowing teams away, then to ultimately fail under finals pressure.
I think we forget that half of our defence was sitting on the park bench in 2018, with some of the others really not right like Howe.
It’s how u enter the finals that count, fitness of the playing group, brand of footy, and morale of the group these days. We are early in on a strange season where thrashings are going to be rare, because minutes played is a factor.
They have time to get the chemistry right.

Imagine if we picked Darcy for the GF and his body held up. Bloody what ifs

 

[JB1975]

Actually it has been, when was the last time we kicked 100 pts?, 36 against tigs, 63? against the bomb outs and 59 last night, 2 goals in a half against the aints, 64 against giants........................ not looking good.

The reduced time of each quarter not only provides less time in which to score, but it also makes it easier for teams to maintain defensive structures for longer.

In short, the game is less 'open' for a greater proportion of the game, as well as less time overall.

 

[No SPIN]

Maybe, what I meant to say in my previous post was you'd be brave to tip us - not the cats.

Cats maybe old but there are other teams that we need to get better than before we even look like contending.

who are the teams we need to get better than to contend?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Actually it has been, when was the last time we kicked 100 pts?, 36 against tigs, 63? against the bomb outs and 59 last night, 2 goals in a half against the aints, 64 against giants........................ not looking good.

Thought we were talking about goalkicking accuracy?

 

[jonmacTrag]

And Daicos? Or Colin Tully?

Yes better than Daics because he wasn't confined to Daics headspace - don't get me wrong Daics was the better all round player but we're not discussing that.
As for Tully even I'm not old enough to remember him - although at times I feel like Methuselah lol.
Buckley was the die from which the modern player is cast - immensely dedicated athlete, obsessive perfectionism and IMHO the best kick the game has seen.

 

[jonmacTrag]

To the Hawks credit, they're weren't stupid enough to trade Beams for pick 18.

Yeah they were merely stupid enough to stack their list with never will be champions which not only didn't make them a dynastic team but also stifled any possibility of climbing out of the hole they have dug for themselves for a decade.
A real good win for them there eh?

 

[Ocram69]

Actually it has been, when was the last time we kicked 100 pts?, 36 against tigs, 63? against the bomb outs and 59 last night, 2 goals in a half against the aints, 64 against giants........................ not looking good.

How many of the other teams have scored 100 points this season? Not looking good for any team it would seem going by your analysis.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Yes he could, but for short passes, he needed a little less booming and a little more touch

Agreed no one is perfect as we all know but viewing the package as whole he is the best I have seen in over 50 years of watching the pies.