List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Thread.....

[Psicosis]

Ben Paton from the Saints is someone who I'd be keen on. Dour lockdown small defender, was keen on him in his draft year.

Uncontracted at present, would fill a hole left by Williams but still has plenty of scope for development.

How are his skills?

Unlikely Shaw or Rawlings bring in any defenders that aren't high quality users.

 

[DuckYeah]

Lets stop talking about Cox. His name came up as a suggestion for a salary dump, there has been no link from any media/ITK posters yet we have been talking about him for 20 pages like he's actually coming.

Its masoning!!

 

[New_Roo]

Oh and Geelongs endless salary cap pit too..

Time for us to come in and pick at some of the big bones too...


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[roos_fanatic08]

How are his skills?

Unlikely Shaw or Rawlings bring in any defenders that aren't high quality users.

Very neat. Not a long kick, but very rarely makes bad decisions.

 

[DesertRoo]

The caps would have to stop being fluid and the salaries would have to be open for the salary dump strategies to work.
unfortunately ofal house isn’t a mature enough of a sporting organisation to make it work.

 

[krakouers]

I’m happy to take on Cox’s contract, if we gat a better pick and just pay it out and never let him set foot in Arden St.

Now that's not nice...

I'm sure our Basketball side can do with him..

 

[DuckYeah]

Need to get one to stick first though or they will be all waiting for the first!


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Comes down to list development, coaching staff and game plans. Still all over the place right now. Certainly wouldnt be doing what those muppets ay optus oval have done and pay B grade players A grade prices. Rather pay A grade players A+ prices. We’ll see anyway, if Corr comes, thats a start

 

[7577969923]

Need to get one to stick first though or they will be all waiting for the first!


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

I think if the players we are targeting can see a core group of really talented young players all getting to the tipping point of being established high-quality players they will be comfortable jumping on board. As it stands they probably feel like they would be signing up for 30 plus losses over the next two years.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Dour lockdown small defender

 

[Only Forwards]

there a bit going on and in terms of thread why not this one.

I have some major concerns with what we are doing.

Its not that I don't back the club, and its not going to affect me fronting up next year but there are things occurring that are not sitting totally right with me.

1) We are seemingly making some pretty deep cuts to senior players. I said earlier in this thread that there was a fine line with this stuff and that going all crazy Vossy on us could have some serious ramifications.

• 2 are gone from the leadership group, with a potential 3rd in Higgins, that is half the leadership group gone and I have the expectation that Jack has to step down in 2021. This is a massive change. It also doesn't account for rumours of another being Senior player being talked about in potential trades, or rumours about Cunners. Too deep of cuts to the senior players and we will wade into Melbourne territory.
• Our most marketable player, is seemingly collateral damage in a stand against player managers walking over us. 60 goals a year don't grow on trees. I get the need to get in front of a story and that relationships may have soured but Ben Brown has been one of our best players over the last 5 years and now we are seemingly selling in doom.

2) It looks to me that we are looking to cycle players through our list to play to the coaches "plan" a plan that was largely unidentifiable for swathes of this year. This is a huge concern to me. Not because we are turning over the list. That had to be done to enable change to happen, Change that we desperately need. However we just spent a decade with a coach trying to cycle through our list to get player that could play to his plan. It seems we are going all in on Shaw here. Which is scary. More coaches fail than succeed and very few coaches take bottoming clubs from the bottom to the top. I really don't want to get to mid 2022 have it be abundantly clear that whatever he was trying to do won't work and we have a list built around the idea of making it work. It is this sort of thing that ends up in Melbourne or Carlton type territory.

3) We are making some huge long lasting decisions on the back of a year where I believe we set ourselves up to fail.
Consider this choice:
We have a rookie coach we are trying to implement a new plan and are staring down the barrel of moving into a hub. We need to make cut to the coaches who do we take?

a) line coaches who have have more of a chance to help implement the new plan​

or​

b) Development coaches​

We took development coaches (some line coaches left disgruntled) and IMHO we were worse for it as we moved on some of the support for Shaw that was needed.

4) We are doing all this moving on of senior players in a year where the draft is more speculative than it has been since the early 90s. I expect us to nail our very early picks, but shit is going to get real speculative real fast.

Potential for ramifications as I see it:

After we won the centenary flag in 1996, Denis is quoted as saying (paraphrasing) that a lot of people don't like this club, don't want us around. In 2007 that manifested itself in a relocation push.

A lot of people at the club have feared going so all in on a complete rebuild because of this. It is incredibly important that we get this right. Make no mistake, weathering a storm of being in the wilderness like Melbourne or Carlton have would not be easy. There is not a lot to indicate that much has changed on our perception from the time Denis made that quote. You only need to look at how undervalued our players are in the media to see it.

 

[Star]

Cox and Silvagni are the two worst recruiting suggestions I've ever seen

Hang around. I promise you it will get better...

 

[Phillyroo]

Recruiting Mason Cox & Jack Silvagni would make us so unwatchable.

How many would want to watch those 2 flopping around at Marvel at 4:40 on a Sunday? Would be a disaster commercially.

I cannot believe i am reading Cox name in here. He is an average footballer and ain't going to get any better

I cannot believe that you don’t see the value of the salary dump.

 

[7577969923]

there a bit going on and in terms of thread why not this one.

I have some major concerns with what we are doing.

Its not that I don't back the club, and its not going to affect me fronting up next year but there are things occurring that are not sitting totally right with me.

1) We are seemingly making some pretty deep cuts to senior players. I said earlier in this thread that there was a fine line with this stuff and that going all crazy Vossy on us could have some serious ramifications.

• 2 are gone from the leadership group, with a potential 3rd in Higgins, that is half the leadership group gone and I have the expectation that Jack has to step down in 2021. This is a massive change. It also doesn't account for rumours of another being Senior player being talked about in potential trades, or rumours about Cunners. Too deep of cuts to the senior players and we will wade into Melbourne territory.
• Our most marketable player, is seemingly collateral damage in a stand against player managers walking over us. 60 goals a year don't grow on trees. I get the need to get in front of a story and that relationships may have soured but Ben Brown has been one of our best players over the last 5 years and now we are seemingly selling in doom.

2) It looks to me that we are looking to cycle players through our list to play to the coaches "plan" a plan that was largely unidentifiable for swathes of this year. This is a huge concern to me. Not because we are turning over the list. That had to be done to enable change to happen, Change that we desperately need. However we just spent a decade with a coach trying to cycle through our list to get player that could play to his plan. It seems we are going all in on Shaw here. Which is scary. More coaches fail than succeed and very few coaches take bottoming clubs from the bottom to the top. I really don't want to get to mid 2022 have it be abundantly clear that whatever he was trying to do won't work and we have a list built around the idea of making it work. It is this sort of thing that ends up in Melbourne or Carlton type territory.

3) We are making some huge long lasting decisions on the back of a year where I believe we set ourselves up to fail.
Consider this choice:
We have a rookie coach we are trying to implement a new plan and are staring down the barrel of moving into a hub. We need to make cut to the coaches who do we take?

a) line coaches who have have more of a chance to help implement the new plan​

or​

b) Development coaches​

We took development coaches (some left disgruntled) and IMHO we were worse for it as we moved on some of the support for Shaw that was needed.

4) We are doing all this moving on of senior players in a year where the draft is more speculative than it has been since the early 90s. I expect us to nail our very early picks, but sh*t is going to get real speculative real fast.

Potential for ramifications as I see it:

After we won the centenary flag in 1996, Denis is quoted as saying (paraphrasing) that a lot of people don't like this club, don't want us around. In 2007 that manifested itself in a relocation push.

A lot of people at the club have feared going so all in on a complete rebuild because of this. It is incredibly important that we get this right. Make no mistake, weathering a storm of being in the wilderness like Melbourne or Carlton have would not be easy. There is not a lot to indicate that much has changed on our perception from the time Denis made that quote. You only need to look at how undervalued our players are in the media to see it.

I agree with some much of what you say but in reality what choice did we have. We shouldn't be keeping rubbish players around because they are leadership group. It is time for the next generation of leadership to step up and that is guys like LMac, Jed, and Jye?

 

[Danni_Benson]

I cannot believe i am reading Cox name in here. He is an average footballer and ain't going to get any better

Noticed a typo. You must mean ‘below average’?

 

[DaveyBoy123]

Ben Paton from the Saints is someone who I'd be keen on. Dour lockdown small defender, was keen on him in his draft year.

Uncontracted at present, would fill a hole left by Williams but still has plenty of scope for development.

Well, he basically played for us in rd-1 this past season. Quite a few of the goals we kicked in our 2nd half comeback were through him in one way or another.

Understand the idea and do agree he could develop though.

 

[LB2Snake]

+1 with the renouncing my support for the club if we bring in that big useless Seppo.

Happily accept the trading of Brown and other stars as long as we are adequately compensated AND I mean adequately. But to then bring in compete impostors to fill their positions would sadden me greatly.

We needed this change of course. We are tacking and about to set the spinnaker for pick 1 next year and a big monstrous Horne.

The hilarious thing is when Cox was being recruited it came down to us and pies that wanted him....without him playing a single match, just all based on his athletic ability.
Now after all these av games we still want him.

 

[GreatBradScott]

If this puts a few minds at ease - the vibes I get is the club is acutely aware of the perils of having too few senior leaders. It won't let us be "Melbourne or Carlton" (I don't like those examples because those lists were in priority pick hell for years, poorly run in every facet).

They will not let our talent go to the slaughter, regardless of who gets moved on.

 

[Only Forwards]

I agree with some much of what you say but in reality what choice did we have. We shouldn't be keeping rubbish players around because they are leadership group. It is time for the next generation of leadership to step up and that is guys like LMac, Jed, and Jye?

It is not as much the choices that are being made but the manner in which they are being executed. I said in my post we need to turn over the list, however we appear to be being brutal almost for the sake of it.


Consider:
Scuttlebutt on here suggests that a lot of player knew very early into hub life that they wouldn't be around next year. THis is inviting disharmony among the playing group and apathy on field, which we saw play out and now we are making lasting decisions based on performances in these conditions.

Don't get me wrong, Change is absolutely required.

Us getting this right is also absolutely required.

 

[the flying ham]

I cannot believe that you don’t see the value of the salary dump.

Wright is better option than Cox.

 

[ferball]

I didn't say anything about what she said about the club. The podcast in general just makes no sense.

She is carrying her dead child and will be for another five months. Just give her a break.

 

[R00StaR]

I'd take just about anyone's salary to get more picks.

Nobody will do it for a first rounder so we're talking about buying lotto tickets. Id rather front load one of our own and use money on quality via FA.

 

[Phillyroo]

Wright is better option than Cox.

Whichever club wants to shell out the best deal for Brown is the better option.

 

[New_Roo]

Can someone confirm this for me.... are players able to nominate now? Or do they have to wait until free agency opens before nominations are allowed? I don't recall any official nominations at this stage?


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[7577969923]

It is not as much the choices that are being made but the manner in which they are being executed. I said in my post we need to turn over the list, however we appear to be being brutal almost for the sake of it.


Consider:
Scuttlebutt on here suggests that a lot of player knew very early into hub life that they wouldn't be around next year. THis is inviting disharmony among the playing group and apathy on field, which we saw play out and now we are making lasting decisions based on performances in these conditions.

Don't get me wrong, Change is absolutely required.

Us getting this right is also absolutely required.

I hope the view that Brady is firmly in charge of this and not Shaw is true. I still have concerns about Shaw if the view that we are happy to let Brown go because he doesn't fit Shaw's gameplan is right. If a coach can't Taylor a gameplan to suit a 60 goal forward what good are they? Also, it seems that Shaw's biggest problems have been with players that would be described as a bit different. That worries me somewhat as well.

 

[Star]

there a bit going on and in terms of thread why not this one.

I have some major concerns with what we are doing.

Its not that I don't back the club, and its not going to affect me fronting up next year but there are things occurring that are not sitting totally right with me.

1) We are seemingly making some pretty deep cuts to senior players. I said earlier in this thread that there was a fine line with this stuff and that going all crazy Vossy on us could have some serious ramifications.

• 2 are gone from the leadership group, with a potential 3rd in Higgins, that is half the leadership group gone and I have the expectation that Jack has to step down in 2021. This is a massive change. It also doesn't account for rumours of another being Senior player being talked about in potential trades, or rumours about Cunners. Too deep of cuts to the senior players and we will wade into Melbourne territory.
• Our most marketable player, is seemingly collateral damage in a stand against player managers walking over us. 60 goals a year don't grow on trees. I get the need to get in front of a story and that relationships may have soured but Ben Brown has been one of our best players over the last 5 years and now we are seemingly selling in doom.

2) It looks to me that we are looking to cycle players through our list to play to the coaches "plan" a plan that was largely unidentifiable for swathes of this year. This is a huge concern to me. Not because we are turning over the list. That had to be done to enable change to happen, Change that we desperately need. However we just spent a decade with a coach trying to cycle through our list to get player that could play to his plan. It seems we are going all in on Shaw here. Which is scary. More coaches fail than succeed and very few coaches take bottoming clubs from the bottom to the top. I really don't want to get to mid 2022 have it be abundantly clear that whatever he was trying to do won't work and we have a list built around the idea of making it work. It is this sort of thing that ends up in Melbourne or Carlton type territory.

3) We are making some huge long lasting decisions on the back of a year where I believe we set ourselves up to fail.
Consider this choice:
We have a rookie coach we are trying to implement a new plan and are staring down the barrel of moving into a hub. We need to make cut to the coaches who do we take?

a) line coaches who have have more of a chance to help implement the new plan​

or​

b) Development coaches​

We took development coaches (some line coaches left disgruntled) and IMHO we were worse for it as we moved on some of the support for Shaw that was needed.

4) We are doing all this moving on of senior players in a year where the draft is more speculative than it has been since the early 90s. I expect us to nail our very early picks, but sh*t is going to get real speculative real fast.

Potential for ramifications as I see it:

After we won the centenary flag in 1996, Denis is quoted as saying (paraphrasing) that a lot of people don't like this club, don't want us around. In 2007 that manifested itself in a relocation push.

A lot of people at the club have feared going so all in on a complete rebuild because of this. It is incredibly important that we get this right. Make no mistake, weathering a storm of being in the wilderness like Melbourne or Carlton have would not be easy. There is not a lot to indicate that much has changed on our perception from the time Denis made that quote. You only need to look at how undervalued our players are in the media to see it.

Lots of good points made and not dissimilar to discussions I have had with other good North Melbourne supporters.

However, I find myself replying; What would you do? What is the alternative? What if we do nothing?

The oft use cliché of 'club is bigger than any individual' is relevant here.

We must DO something. Another year where we cut a couple then persevere with the same mid-age, mid-experience, mediocre group will have us in an even deeper hole with even less trade currency than the little we have now.

We grow to love all players on our list. Ben, Maj, Higgo but the future of the club is on the line right here and now.

Also, re Pagan's comments. I love that. I'm actually enjoying the Caro Wilsons and Dwayne Russell's wallowing in our predicament. This is now backs to the wall stuff which will make succeeding all the more sweeter and pleasurable.

We need to trust. There IS no other way