List Mgmt. Jeremy Cameron traded to Geelong

[AM]

Jezza's manager was interviewed earlier and said he will not return to GWS. If our reasonable offer isn't accepted going to the draft remains a live option.

Some cognitive dissonance for me on this one. Want him in the hoops, but don't want the club to be screwed in the process.

Perhaps GWS should remember every dog has its day and we have long memories.

 

[Shadow89]

It's interesting as well, because we can do the Higgins deal in the last 5 minutes if we want (if we end up wanting to at all), and sit on our hands 'til 7:25. We've literally got nothing else going on, lol.

GWS on the other hand, have trades for Hately, Caldwell and Preuss to all work out, whilst trying to 'negotiate' with us. Dodo will not relent until 5 minutes 'til the buzzer, so they'd want to be careful that they don't let all their trades fall over, due to being too stubborn.

Legitimate chance that all 3 of Hately, Cameron and Caldwell get to the draft - instead of them ending up with 3 first round picks and a second or third (depending on what happens). That would have the stench of Matthews all over it, and would spell the beginning of the end for their club me thinks.

Not just us in play anymore. Dodo has Dunkley, Saad and Caldwell to negotiate - and he'll drag all of those out.

Better get a move on McCartney, tick tock

 

[AM]

I think this is the most relevant thing for Cameron's situation should be end up in the draft; if he's putting a price on his head it must be for a minimum period of 2-years

(b) Nominated Football Payments

(i) Offer and acceptance

(A) A Player, (other than a first year draft choice Player or such a Player in his second year), may specify in the nomination lodged pursuant to Rule 6.2(c) the Football Payments which he will require if he is selected at a Draft Selection Meeting.
48

(B) By so specifying the Football Payments he will require, the Player shall be taken to have made an offer to the Club which selects him at a Draft Selection Meeting, to accept employment in return for the Football Payments so specified.

(C) The Club which selects a Player who has specified the Football Payments which he will require shall be deemed to have accepted the offer set out in (b) above.

(D) Immediately following the Draft Selection Meeting, the Player and the Club to whom

(c) above applies, shall execute a Contract of Service providing for the Football Payments specified by the Player in accordance with (a) above.

(E) If a Player nominates his Football Payments he must do so for a minimum period of two years.

https://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/AFL-Rules-June-2017.PDF

He's after 5 years so I guess this wouldn't be an impediment from his perspective. And because of his talent probably not his suitor either.

 

[00VicWard001]

GWS trading up for pick 5 to take Cameron would be the absolute biggest braindead move in the history of sports.

That would take the cake. “We’re going to spend our draft picks to keep our player, who we wanted underpay, and who doesn’t want to stay.” Oh my.

Definitely no weird creepy friend-zone vibes at all. No siree. It’s completely harmless that they are playing acoustic guitar with original love songs written for Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

, in his lounge room and just not taking the hint to leave. That’s okay, they’ll be back later when he’s asleep with duct tape.

 

[ibuprofen]

Maybe the whole draft system is illegal?

From my reading it is unlikely to be declared illegal despite people mentioning that old chestnut. Basically, my understanding if players agree to be bound by the rules of the competition they are bound by them, not just ones they want to be. For example, there are lots of liberties that are signed away for gains elsewhere. For example, having a few beers on the weekend can get you sacked as an AFL player when it would be unreasonable to do that as a regular employer. However, strict rules on this help the promotion of the game and increased revenue which benefits the players also.

Now there could be an argument that they are bound to them unless they are unreasonable. Cameron being denied the ability to choose his employer after ten years could be an unreasonable thing but who really knows.

The house of cards moment is really when the AFLPA refuse to be bound by those rules, that is when it gets nasty and the system collapses. I suspect we will see RFA gone at the next agreement.

 

[Burro]

So..... What if JC asks for 1.3 for 2 years and 0.5 for years 3 and 4 with options for years 5 and 6. If Geelong can do that maybe no other club can.

 

[Burro]

From my reading it is unlikely to be declared illegal despite people mentioning that old chestnut. Basically, my understanding if players agree to be bound by the rules of the competition they are bound by them, not just ones they want to be. For example, there are lots of liberties that are signed away for gains elsewhere. For example, having a few beers on the weekend can get you sacked as an AFL player when it would be unreasonable to do that as a regular employer. However, strict rules on this help the promotion of the game and increased revenue which benefits the players also.

Now there could be an argument that they are bound to them unless they are unreasonable. Cameron being denied the ability to choose his employer after ten years could be an unreasonable thing but who really knows.

The house of cards moment is really when the AFLPA refuse to be bound by those rules, that is when it gets nasty and the system collapses. I suspect we will see RFA gone at the next agreement.

It was a bit tongue in cheek.....but would be great to see if play out in court.... would stop the draft for a while.

 

[Spazz Cat]

The NBA will forever be a big market league.

Sure you get teams that pop-up here and there that win. But why should a 6'8, fit, rich good-looking, 20-something stay at a team like Minnesota or Indiana or Charlotte when they can up and leave to LA, NYC, Miami etc

Especially when these big markets generate huge money and are willing to spend big for players, whereas small markets struggle with income and aren't willing to waste money on FA and pay luxury tax?

I reckon it's even worse here because half the population doesn't even follow or play the sport, yet we put teams there, then take away their COLA then bring in FA.
I don't think the AFL factored in how 2 states don't like the game when bringing it in.
I absolutely get your point though. Why play for bloody Minnesota or Portland when you can play for Miami or the Lakers and be famous and live it up.

 

[frggr]

So..... What if JC asks for 1.3 for 2 years and 0.5 for years 3 and 4 with options for years 5 and 6. If Geelong can do that maybe no other club can.

That's a possibility, with some risk to the club. Could do 2 years at 2m and then the remainder at $250k too, but extremely unlikely

 

[Spazz Cat]

Not sure what you getting at ?

You must of missed the conversation I was having with GC26 on the debate of FA in the future working out to the advantage of the bigger clubs or not.

 

[Vivy]

Maybe the whole draft system is illegal?

I found this to be a nice primer for restraint of trade in sport.

The AFL and Restraint of Trade - Sports Industry AU

Every so often the question of the ability of the AFL to withstand restraint of trade cases in court pops

www.footyindustry.com

Main thing I take away is that going through the draft a second time might struggle to hold up.

Equity for the sake of the AFL gets doled out through FA compensation, or trade. I found it interesting. Not a lawyer though. I'd be keen to know other people's thoughts.

 

[Shadow89]

So..... What if JC asks for 1.3 for 2 years and 0.5 for years 3 and 4 with options for years 5 and 6. If Geelong can do that maybe no other club can.

I'd say it'd need to be more, like 1.5 MIL x 2 and then 600K over the remaining 3 years - future agreed upon contract - with an option for a 6th, to rule out any other club picking him up in the PSD.

In that case, Higgins wouldn't be coming - which I'm not fussed about - and we'd then have enough (Kelly money - $800K, Ablett $400K, Taylor $600K) to secure Cameron for those two years.

Essentially, either Higgins ($500-600K reportedly) and Cameron (950K) and 1 decent first rounder for two years, or Cameron (1.5 MIL) and 3 first rounders - I know which one I'd rather

 

[Burro]

I'd say it'd need to be more, like 1.5 MIL x 2 and then 600K over the remaining 3 years - future agreed upon contract - with an option for a 6th, to rule out any other club picking him up in the PSD.

In that case, Higgins wouldn't be coming - which I'm not fussed about - and we'd then have enough (Kelly money - $800K, Ablett $400K, Taylor $600K) to secure Cameron for those two years.

Essentially, either Higgins ($500-600K reportedly) and Cameron (950K) and 1 decent first rounder for two years, or Cameron (1.5 MIL) and 3 first rounders - I know which one I'd rather

Any club would need to have cap space. I don't understand why GWS should be allowed to trade him at all now. Can't see the player having a fair control of his future.

 

[Turbocat]

You must of missed the conversation I was having with GC26 on the debate of FA in the future working out to the advantage of the bigger clubs or not.

I didnt read it all but is your point that FA is bad for the comp?

 

[Spazz Cat]

I didnt read it all but is your point that FA is bad for the comp?

Yes. But the main argument was that if/when UFA is scrapped it will be even worse.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The AFL can tinker with the criteria but they won’t throw RFA out the window

Its a broken concept. AFLPA want players to choose where they play and have freedom of choice and they absolutely do.. No different to you or me working where we choose to so should an AFL player. Its quite horrible when you think about it that they cant and very illegal to say the least. If AFLPA ever took AFL to court it would be over in a matter of days.

Its just a matter of time until its gone but how soon will depend on how badly some situations unfold like jeremy cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

31

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

 

[Sttew]

A Sydney fan on the GWS board said that Vic clubs need to stop trying to bully GWS and northern clubs.

Remind me again what Sydney and GCS gave up for Ablett and Franklin?

And the way Swans snared Buddy....

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Smith for nothing and Jezza for free

Someone call in that guy with the shades!

 

[CatToTheFuture]

The AFL can tinker with the criteria but they won’t throw RFA out the window

No matter how they change it you couldn't rule out bad faith negotiations and draft tampering. It has to go

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Just have a look how it's gone the last 3 years even with UFA.
3 biggest names on the table.
Lynch Richmond (3rd? biggest club) after a flag.
Kelly (trade) West Coast ( biggest club) after a flag.
Cameron Geelong (Freak club, and nearly top destination club) after a grand final.
Don't follow the NFL at all but in the NBA 11 teams have never even won a championship, some have never even won a conference and 2 teams have roughly 50% of championships between them.
5 teams between them have won 51 out of 72

dazbroncos how does free agency go for the NFL?? Is it better or worse??

Carlton have traded heaps and so have st kilda of late for big fish before they rose. Good management and administration absolutely can do it. As long as we have even salary caps it will all work out well.

There are more than enough players who will chooss money over success spazz dont worry about that.

 

[AM]

Just btw. Don't think Cookies intervention early-on where he said we were to have a fair dinkum crack at Jeremy would have endeared us to GWS. Somehow think he regrets that comment.

 

[r32godzilla]

GWS are acting like a bunch of mercenaries with little regards for the players, no wonder noone wants to go there. Cameron virtually should be an UFA by now given the 10 years service to GWS. They are making a mockery of free agency. They are bloody lucky enough already having been given an armchair ride over the years by the AFL and getting all these high draft picks handed to them. This is unlike other teams such as Geelong that has had to work hard and through shrewd trading to get thiers.

 

[Spazz Cat]

dazbroncos how does free agency go for the NFL?? Is it better or worse??

Carlton have traded heaps and so have st kilda of late for big fish before they rose. Good management and administration absolutely can do it. As long as we have even salary caps it will all work out well.

There are more than enough players who will chooss money over success spazz dont worry about that.

I just think as a whole over history it will clearly favour bigger clubs. It just has too.
And it already has.
Undesirable clubs paying overs for average ones, desirable clubs paying unders for top ones.
If Lynch can go to Richmond straight after a flag and they use no picks it's not great.
I know you can't stop it but I don't think it's good.
Once again I know nothing about NFL but I think Green Bay kicks arse and it doesn't seem like a fancy place to live or would be that loaded.

 

[Turbocat]

Yes. But the main argument was that if/when UFA is scrapped it will be even worse.

I think we are diametrically opposed then . Its almost certain that FA will be able to be accessed at less years served and by more players. To try to deny that is like try to stop the tide. What is required is more FA , not less and No comp bar salcap space.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I think we are diametrically opposed then . Its almost certain that FA will be able to be accessed at less years and by more players. To try to deny that is like try to stop the tide. What is required is more FA , not less and No comp bar salcap space.

I agree with you that it's going to happen.
Just can't see how it makes for an even competition.
It fundamentally can't.