List Mgmt. 2020 List Management, Free Agency & Trade thread - Part 2

[Lach72]

 

[heypenny]

What a nonsense saying. When we lost to Hawks in 2013, they had 6 imports who all won a premiership that year.

And the reason we got the 2013 Grand Final was because (for once in our short history) we had a draft-first strategy. Although D.Pearce and Dawson were helpful - the reason we had the most successful period in our clubs history was on the back of Fyfe, Hill, Walters, Barlow, Ballas, Mayne, Clarke, Suban, Muzungu etc who were drafted between 2007-10.

I really hope we can reflect on our drafting period between 2016-2020 in the same fashion.

 

[Docker82]

And the reason we got the 2013 Grand Final was because (for once in our short history) we had a draft-first strategy. Although D.Pearce and Dawson were helpful - the reason we had the most successful period in our clubs history was on the back of Fyfe, Hill, Walters, Barlow, Ballas, Mayne, Clarke, Suban, Muzungu etc who were drafted between 2007-10.

I really hope we can reflect on our drafting period between 2016-2020 in the same fashion.

We’ve drafted pretty well but we’ve been through this before. Sydney are the only team in a decade that haven’t traded a first rounder for an established player that have won a flag. Josh Kennedy sure played like he was traded for a first rounder though!!!

You don’t win premierships without doing both well. End of story.

 

[tonygeeks]

We’ve drafted pretty well but we’ve been through this before. Sydney are the only team in a decade that haven’t traded a first rounder for an established player that have won a flag. Josh Kennedy sure played like he was traded for a first rounder though!!!

You don’t win premierships without doing both well. End of story.

How many teams haven’t traded a 1st though ?

Doesn’t mean much if every team has done it , the list of teams that have traded in a player for a first rounder that haven’t won the flag is a lot longer

Not sure that stat means anything because what are you measuring it against?


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

 

[Superkoops]

I can’t see Collingwood trading picks 14 and 16 until the draft tbh.

The only trade that kind of makes sense is moving pick 14 back to pick 15 if they expect a bid for McIness comes around the 10-12 mark. Pick 15 is still easily enough to cover it, whilst the later pick/s Collingwood could get from GWS would allow them to cover the extra list spots, which they have a lot of.

Thing is Collingwood’s preference is probably using picks 14 and 16, matching a bid for McIness and filling the remaining list spots with late draft picks.

I agree. I think the majority of pick swaps will occur on draft night. But if we go armed with a suite of decent picks we’ll be in a good position to move up. Teams will as you say wait till their player is bid on and then execute a trade. I feel Colingwood’s picks which will end up around 17 and 19 are in that sweet spot for McIness. Given closeness of bid and some chance for 20-24 they will likely wait and take their chances to trade as soon as his name is called. But imagine the scenario of three first round picks if we did the Gold Coast trade and McIness is bid at 18, we trade for 20 and then have Richmond bid at 21 for Walker.

15. Cox/Henry
20. Carroll/Neale
21. Walker
36. Western

 

[Docker82]

How many teams haven’t traded a 1st though ?

Doesn’t mean much if every team has done it , the list of teams that have traded in a player for a first rounder that haven’t won the flag is a lot longer

Not sure that stat means anything because what are you measuring it against?


Sent from my iPad using BigFooty.com

I think it was a first rounder within three years of a flag or something like that. Someone else posted it a while back.

Of course every team has traded a first rounder...

 

[heypenny]

We’ve drafted pretty well but we’ve been through this before. Sydney are the only team in a decade that haven’t traded a first rounder for an established player that have won a flag. Josh Kennedy sure played like he was traded for a first rounder though!!!

You don’t win premierships without doing both well. End of story.

This argument's be done to death so let's not go over it again - we'll concentrate on the upcoming draft! I have no doubt the debate will re emerge in October 2021.

 

[heypenny]

I think the majority of pick swaps will occur on draft night. But if we go armed with a suite of decent picks we’ll be in a good position to move up. Teams will as you say wait till their player is bid on and then execute a trade.

Completely agree. With the amount of NGAs this year, there will be loads of shuffling around and desperation from clubs at certain points. It's really really critical that we have a few picks to be flexible and make the most of particular opportunities.

I want us to be the Port Adelaide of last year, and take advantage where we can!

 

[Taylor]

Starting from:
#12, #32, #55, #56, #63 (2365 points)(1097 after #12)

Assuming that the rankings of academy players taken before our picks plays out as: Ugle-Hagan #1, Campbell #7, Jones #10, McInnes #11

Then... our picks look like when the time comes for us to first choose:
#16, #33, #46, #47, #53 (2510 points)(1443 after #16)

This is heavily pivotal on the McInnes bid being at #11 and the matching a bid rule not allowing clubs to reach to the back of their stack to fill a little deficit. For example, a bid on McInnes at #11 requires Collingwood to 1063 points, Collingwood hold #17 which is worth 1025 points and that leaves 38 points to find. If it's the next pick in the draft, which it should be, that's pick #19 worth 948 points.

They also hold #56 at that time, worth 194 points - if they can reach back and use that pick instead then it changes things slightly.

Now it gets interesting..

What if we bid on Gulden and Downie before our first pick to try and burn extra picks to bring ours in? It pushes us back to #18

...but the rest of our picks become:
#34, #45, #46, #51

Makes no difference really once bids get to our first pick.

 

[TheLastCall]

Starting from:
#12, #32, #55, #56, #63 (2365 points)(1097 after #12)

Assuming that the rankings of academy players taken before our picks plays out as: Ugle-Hagan #1, Campbell #7, Jones #10, McInnes #11

Then... our picks look like when the time comes for us to first choose:
#16, #33, #46, #47, #53 (2510 points)(1443 after #16)

This is heavily pivotal on the McInnes bid being at #11 and the matching a bid rule not allowing clubs to reach to the back of their stack to fill a little deficit. For example, a bid on McInnes at #11 requires Collingwood to 1063 points, Collingwood hold #17 which is worth 1025 points and that leaves 38 points to find. If it's the next pick in the draft, which it should be, that's pick #19 worth 948 points.

They also hold #56 at that time, worth 194 points - if they can reach back and use that pick instead then it changes things slightly.

Now it gets interesting..

What if we bid on Gulden and Downie before our first pick to try and burn extra picks to bring ours in? It pushes us back to #18

...but the rest of our picks become:
#34, #45, #46, #51

Makes no difference really once bids get to our first pick.

That is interesting.

WB now can cover a bid at 1.

Would it be worth going to GWS and trading 12 & 32 (16&33)for 15 & 20(19&~23)

 

[Taylor]

If we are going to pick a player at #12 that would be available at #19 then having that second pick four later could be quite handy.

 

[Dockeroo]

Starting from:
#12, #32, #55, #56, #63 (2365 points)(1097 after #12)

Assuming that the rankings of academy players taken before our picks plays out as: Ugle-Hagan #1, Campbell #7, Jones #10, McInnes #11

Then... our picks look like when the time comes for us to first choose:
#16, #33, #46, #47, #53 (2510 points)(1443 after #16)

This is heavily pivotal on the McInnes bid being at #11 and the matching a bid rule not allowing clubs to reach to the back of their stack to fill a little deficit. For example, a bid on McInnes at #11 requires Collingwood to 1063 points, Collingwood hold #17 which is worth 1025 points and that leaves 38 points to find. If it's the next pick in the draft, which it should be, that's pick #19 worth 948 points.

They also hold #56 at that time, worth 194 points - if they can reach back and use that pick instead then it changes things slightly.

Now it gets interesting..

What if we bid on Gulden and Downie before our first pick to try and burn extra picks to bring ours in? It pushes us back to #18

...but the rest of our picks become:
#34, #45, #46, #51

Makes no difference really once bids get to our first pick.

McInnes will hardly get a bid at 11? I thought it’s far more likely that he slides out around pick 20 before a bid. The likes of Cox, Reid, Perkins, Bruhn, Chapman, Henry all rated ahead of Mcinnes on most phantoms, as well as the top 5 in the open draft. Add jones, JUH and Campbell and the earliest bid on McInnes looks to be pick 15 or so (our pick). Haven’t even mentioned Carroll, O’Driscoll or Cook. Also seems unlikely that Adelaide will bid on JUH at pick 1. I think if we bid on Gulden at 15 the swans would say “fine then - keep him”.
We’d look like right idiots then.

 

[Taylor]

McInnes will hardly get a bid at 11? I thought it’s far more likely that he slides out around pick 20 before a bid. The likes of Cox, Reid, Perkins, Bruhn, Chapman, Henry all rated ahead of Mcinnes on most phantoms, as well as the top 5 in the open draft. Add jones, JUH and Campbell and the earliest bid on McInnes looks to be pick 15 or so (our pick). Haven’t even mentioned Carroll, O’Driscoll or Cook. Also seems unlikely that Adelaide will bid on JUH at pick 1. I think if we bid on Gulden at 15 the swans would say “fine then - keep him”.
We’d look like right idiots then.

It was based off this.

 

[GingerDocker]

Starting from:
#12, #32, #55, #56, #63 (2365 points)(1097 after #12)

Assuming that the rankings of academy players taken before our picks plays out as: Ugle-Hagan #1, Campbell #7, Jones #10, McInnes #11

Then... our picks look like when the time comes for us to first choose:
#16, #33, #46, #47, #53 (2510 points)(1443 after #16)

This is heavily pivotal on the McInnes bid being at #11 and the matching a bid rule not allowing clubs to reach to the back of their stack to fill a little deficit. For example, a bid on McInnes at #11 requires Collingwood to 1063 points, Collingwood hold #17 which is worth 1025 points and that leaves 38 points to find. If it's the next pick in the draft, which it should be, that's pick #19 worth 948 points.

They also hold #56 at that time, worth 194 points - if they can reach back and use that pick instead then it changes things slightly.

Now it gets interesting..

What if we bid on Gulden and Downie before our first pick to try and burn extra picks to bring ours in? It pushes us back to #18

...but the rest of our picks become:
#34, #45, #46, #51

Makes no difference really once bids get to our first pick.

**** me...I thought contemporary astrophysics was difficult to get my head around...

 

[FreoRicci]

Schulz and Bewley Rookie Listed under new provisions.
Good news.
We ll select 4 in the draft and 1 Rookie with Banfield. Why is the need for Banfield there? Use a Lifeline for a forward in VFL/SANFL etc.

 

[Bateman]

Have we no,instead Wa
Ker and Western as potential NGA picks?
I thought we had to do it by today?

 

[Dockeroo]

What slipped by unnoticed today was that we won’t be picking up either Chris walker or Keanu Haddow as Cat B rookies. I thought we may have picked up one of them. Must be keeping an extra list spot on the rookie list then.

 

[Dockeroo]

Have we no,instead Wa
Ker and Western as potential NGA picks?
I thought we had to do it by today?

Yep B Walker and Western nominated by the club today. Not the others though as I said above.

 

[apuchar]

“We are most likely to have four selections in the National Draft and we have a commitment to re-rookie Bailey Banfield

41

Bailey Banfield

Age

27

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.9

5star

MG

175.5

3star

D

9.5

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

4.3

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.8

4star

MG

109.5

2star

D

14.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

6.8

5star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.2

5star

MG

200.4

4star

, which would leave one opening on the rookie list,” Bell said.

“We’ve also committed to Leno Thomas for an additional year as a Category B rookie. Should certain circumstances arise, we do have the capacity to add a second Cat B rookie.”

 

[Dockeroo]

View attachment 1021206

It was based off this.

Ok that’s interesting. Still be surprised if he’s bid on before Perkins especially. Twomey has Perkins ahead of will Phillips even.

 

[Square Peg]

Should certain circumstances arise, we do have the capacity to add a second Cat B rookie.”

And what would those certain circumstances be? Gee Bell-speak is annoying.

 

[apuchar]

And what would those certain circumstances be? Gee Bell-speak is annoying.

If someone like Western goes through without a bid, is my best guess. We could then put him straight onto the cat B.

 

[WilloTree]

And the reason we got the 2013 Grand Final was because (for once in our short history) we had a draft-first strategy. Although D.Pearce and Dawson were helpful - the reason we had the most successful period in our clubs history was on the back of Fyfe, Hill, Walters, Barlow, Ballas, Mayne, Clarke, Suban, Muzungu etc who were drafted between 2007-10.

I really hope we can reflect on our drafting period between 2016-2020 in the same fashion.

Mzungu wasn't drafted. He was traded in from Gold Coast.

 

[go_the_dockers]

Hamling will return to training next week with 1 to 4 year players.

I assume this means he is fully fit?

 

[Cesoir]

Mzungu wasn't drafted. He was traded in from Gold Coast.

Nup.