Analysis Is it acceptable for AFL clubs to be politically biased?

[Purple_Turtle]

Changing the date is about as apolitical a political issue can be.

"If you ignore all the people and arguments against it than it turns out everyone agrees with me."

 

[Tulip]

"If you ignore all the people and arguments against it than it turns out everyone agrees with me."

There is no valid argument for having AD on January 26th compared to any other day. Once you accept the fact that it was a colonisation rather than a 'discovery', that is.

You're welcome to present those arguments. I'm finished work for the day and would be happy to respond to each of them and help get you up to speed?

 

[The Warlord]

I literally said relevant issues. In the 70s & 80s Aboriginal players were part of the fabric of the game, major contributors to the spectacle of the sport, and were literally being abused on-field.

I'm not sure how much more relevant it can get.

Are you trying to argue that the AFL or clubs should make a statement on every single political issue?

Who gets to decide what are RELEVANT issues?

Is kind of the nub of the argument hey.

 

[The Warlord]

That's nice, my club says that to.

Except mine actually lives it.

 

[The Warlord]

Well the masses wanting a day off shouldn't decide such sensitive public policy.

From memory the gov has stated there's no public holiday for remembrance Day because the day is about remembering the soldiers, not having a day to get sloshed.

Anzac Day. If it falls on a weekend we don't get the following Monday off as with public holidays.

Speaking of which, if footy were played across summer, one hesitates to even imagine what kind of horrific BLOCKBUSTER there'd be on the 26th of January.

 

[owen87]

Who gets to decide what are RELEVANT issues?

Is kind of the nub of the argument hey.

I'd say the player base is a big part of that.

As an organisation you can't wade in to every single issue out there, it's folly and a path that's only ever going to lead to you eventually missing an issue and getting on the wrong side of the social commentary.

So you pick relevant issues.

Should clubs have a stance on abortion rights? Trans right? Animal rights? Climate change? Religion? Education? Healthcare? Infrastructure? Economy? All of these are important issues in society right?

Viewers watch AFL first and foremost to enjoy the sport, something I think the AFL loses sight of.

 

[Bicko]

Since politicians and the media turned the whole thing into a “culture war”... which the more cynical of us may suggest was to distract the people from the horrific job of governing and corruption they undertake.

It’d be fu**in great if politics was about growing the economy, healthcare, education, working conditions and jobs... etc etc etc... and we’d judge them on that.

Spot on, people are distracted while the bankers continue to drown us in debt, and the gap between the rich and poor grows, yet during an election none of these things are mentioned. Economic equality was once the reason to protest, now it’s so a 10 year old can have a sex change.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

Once you accept the fact that it was a colonisation rather than a 'discovery', that is.

Wait, who's talking about discovery? That was Cook, and nothing to do with Australia Day.

You also mentioned "if you talked to Aboriginal people and elders and hear what it means from them." I personally know a bunch and they have a spectrum of views on it between "I'm really pissed about this day and would like it changed" to "ideally I'd like it changed but there's 50 other issues I care about way more" to "it's fine as it is." Unfortunately polling for Aboriginal people specifically on this issue is really limited, outside of a Guardian article on a poll from 2018 which had 23% of Aboriginals with a positive view of Australia Day, 30% with mixed and 31% negative, and 54% support for a change (with Guardian omitting the against and don't know percentages.) Good job making yourself the great spokesman for all Aboriginal people though.

As for valid arguments how about the fact that Jan 26th saw the arrival of cultural, government and legal traditions that evolved into this great nation we live in. Going by the 2019 ANU SRC poll most Australians would pick Jan 26th as the ideal day when you mention that fact.

 

[Purple_Turtle]

Anzac Day. If it falls on a weekend we don't get the following Monday off as with public holidays.

Speaking of which, if footy were played across summer, one hesitates to even imagine what kind of horrific BLOCKBUSTER there'd be on the 26th of January.

Well we did get the wonderful BBL blockbuster in its place.

 

[Instincts]

I for one am getting increasingly frustrated with the increase in political virtue signalling coming out of AFL clubs. Football clubs are becoming more interested in pedalling politically correct messaging and I’m increasingly frustrated by it.

I understand why it’s in their interest to focus on inclusiveness as this supports efforts to grow its supporter base and revenue streams.

However, as is becoming increasingly evident, when it starts to take deliberate decisions of a political nature , I believe they cross the line.

I am a proud Australia and believe we should find a way to celebrate this country and what’s great about it. When Essendon released its statement yesterday, mildly taking an anti Australia Day stance, it offended me.

I believe I’m in the healthy majority that may have for the first time been offended by its political stance yesterday. Most Australians support and want a positive celebration of this country by celebrating “Australia Day”.

If the club sees fit to increasingly and overtly focus on taking minority positions on emotive political Issues like Australia Day, then I will withdraw my financial support of the club. To me this isn’t inclusiveness. These positions taken are divisive.

The clubs collective issue is that this could cost them significantly financially.

If you are going to withdraw finacial support for a club taking a seemingly non-radical political stance then I have no words.

It's not like this is some alt-left stance since there's a proper reasoning why so many people protest for the day to be changed.

For me I couldn't care less about if it changes and I think most people are similar, I could only tell you a few people off the top of my head that I think would care if the date was changed

If you are offended by one's non-radical political stance YOU are the problem

Speaking of being offended by one's political stance, do you believe that radical feminists getting offended by reasonable conservative or centre stances is unreasonable?

You can still be a proud Australian but acknowledge that there is a very dirty stain in our history regarding the treatment of aboriginal people.

After all, how would you feel if the Chinese came in, took all of our land away, enslaved, genocided and tortured us only to celebrate when they first landed their soliders onto our country. Wouldn't feel good huh? Wouldn't feel right? That's why this discussion is happening.

A club has a right to the freedom of speech, just like you do. I know what you're about to say "what about twitter." Well, there's a difference between freedom of action and freedom of speech. Twitter did the former, Essendon did the other.

 

[The Warlord]

I'd say the player base is a big part of that.

As an organisation you can't wade in to every single issue out there, it's folly and a path that's only ever going to lead to you eventually missing an issue and getting on the wrong side of the social commentary.

So you pick relevant issues.

Should clubs have a stance on abortion rights? Trans right? Animal rights? Climate change? Religion? Education? Healthcare? Infrastructure? Economy? All of these are important issues in society right?

Viewers watch AFL first and foremost to enjoy the sport, something I think the AFL loses sight of.

???

Player base?

Surely the members who are the actual heart and sould of the club, not the players who are employees, often for very short periods.

 

[Obeanie1]

It is, because there isn't only one sport or TV show or movie etc to watch to escape from reality.

People are attached to their sport, or TV show, or movie etc, fine, I get that - but what I don't get is why people are so attached that they complain about the direction their entertainment takes - and continue with engaging with it anyway. No one is forced to limit their choice of sport or sporting club. I am taking a classic libertarian view on this - don't like it? Don't watch.

Far left.

The balanced view is why mix sports and politics?

If I want to involve myself in politics I will watch those shows, read those papers, engage on line on political forums. And I do.

So why should anyone need to stop watching sport (which is your option suggested) because politics is being jammed down my throat? Why should anyone be forced to stop watching a game because some political or media group has hijacked a popular sporting league / forum to peddle their political ideology?

 

[Forward Press]

Far left.

The balanced view is why mix sports and politics?

If I want to involve myself in politics I will watch those shows, read those papers, engage on line on political forums. And I do.

So why should anyone need to stop watching sport (which is your option suggested) because politics is being jammed down my throat? Why should anyone be forced to stop watching a game because some political or media group has hijacked a popular sporting league / forum to peddle their political ideology?

Hypothetically, would you have supported the Australian sporting position on boycotting South Africa during apartheid?

We can agree that in theory politics and sport should not mix because of the risk of it being hijacked for political purposes which would be distasteful for many fans - but politics and sport have always been intermingled ever since humans made the first ball. I reiterate - you don't have to watch sport you don't like.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Except mine actually lives it.

Mine to.

 

[Virgin Dog]

I think it's fine for clubs to voice support for most social issues (gay marriage, change the date, etc.), but a line needs to be drawn on how involved they do get. Having the clubs all speak out in favour of LGBT rights was great to see, as it's something that affects both players and fans, not to mention the fact that being opposed to LGBT rights is not exactly a justifiable position to take.

If clubs were to start voicing support for particular political parties, however, things could start to get messy. Julie Bishop having been West Coast's number 1 ticket holder is about as far as I'd like to see an AFL club go in terms of affiliation with political groups.

 

[Dan Moody]

There are issues which are blatantly wrong (racism, homophobia, anti semitism, domestic violence, violence against women and children, discrimination against disabled etc) and there are opinions that stir up different emotions (politics, BLM violence, social justice, perceived inequality, perceived racism based on feelings etc).
I'm happy for my club to voice opinions on the clear-cut issues but steer clear of opinion based issues. Eddie has always been a leftie and exhibits his strong opinions on his radio show (well he used to). I don't want grandstanding or political statements made by my club whilst they may be using my membership dollars.

 

[The Warlord]

I think it's fine for clubs to voice support for well-meaning social issues (gay marriage, change the date, etc.), but a line needs to be drawn on how involved they do get. Having the clubs all speak out in favour of LGBT rights was great to see, as it's something that affects both players and fans, not to mention the fact that being opposed to LGBT rights is not exactly a justifiable position to take.

If clubs were to start voicing support for particular political parties, however, things could start to get messy. Julie Bishop having been West Coast's number 1 ticket holder is about as far as I'd like to see an AFL club go in terms of affiliation with political groups.

Yeah, Hawthorn supporters can probably comment here.

 

[Dan Moody]

Spot on, people are distracted while the bankers continue to drown us in debt, and the gap between the rich and poor grows, yet during an election none of these things are mentioned. Economic equality was once the reason to protest, now it’s so a 10 year old can have a sex change.

Can you break down the statement "bankers continue to drown us in debt" for me please?
I'm keen to see this in detail and understand how a banker forces someone to live beyond their means.

 

[The Warlord]

Hypothetically, would you have supported the Australian sporting position on boycotting South Africa during apartheid?

We can agree that in theory politics and sport should not mix because of the risk of it being hijacked for political purposes which would be distasteful for many fans - but politics and sport have always been intermingled ever since humans made the first ball. I reiterate - you don't have to watch sport you don't like.

I always - because I'm an inner city Melbourne flog - find it astounding that West Coast happily train at Mineral Resources Park.

I totally get why and in ye greater scheme of things it isn't a big deal.

But where I live - in a Green seat federal and state - that is a massively political statement.

Yet I imagine for the vast vast majority of West Coast supporters, it is basic common sense.

 

[The Warlord]

Can you break down the statement "bankers continue to drown us in debt" for me please?
I'm keen to see this in detail and understand how a banker forces someone to live beyond their means.

Are you at all aware of events in 2008 and 2009 outside Australia?

 

[Dan Moody]

Are you at all aware of events in 2008 and 2009 outside Australia?

Very well aware, please continue ....

 

[Kwality]

No you completely miss the point.

You can't judge this stuff retrospectively and say oh well it was RIGHT to challenge racism against Aboriginal players after all.

At the time when it was a real problem, people challenging were fobbed off/attacked with stuff like ... not be surrounded by social or political commentary on every issue under the sun.

THIS is the point mate.

Like denying the redneck history of the VFL?
Leave my footy club out of your politics, you selfish bastards.

Reality is views change/evolve .... what is ok today may be rejected in the future SO seeking to claim your views are right/wrong may be unacceptable in the future.

History of conflicts is written by the victor, bit like Cook discovered Australia. We all know its nonsense, but schools still teach it. History of Aussie Rules is written by Victorians & the AFL adopted it as their own. An Aussie rules footballer was that, now he is an AFL footballer, doesnt mean he/her has any claims to have played at the highest level.

PC gobbledygook embraced by would be influencers to the mindless.

Where I work, whether or not I work, who I slept with last night whether or not I'm married or shoplift whether I go to a Synagogue or a brothel has nothing to do with my footy club & I dont want influencers to use my footy club for their own purposes. Who I barrack for isnt anyone elses business.
We need honesty from politicians, not introducing their poison to sport. Sport bind us, politics divide us.
Previous generations understand this, thats why sport is far more widely supported than politics.

Beware do gooders selling poison.

 

[theyellowsash]

Like denying the redneck history of the VFL?

Reality is views change/evolve .... what is ok today may be rejected in the future SO seeking to claim your views are right/wrong may be unacceptable in the future.

History of conflicts is written by the victor, bit like Cook discovered Australia. We all know its nonsense, but schools still teach it. History of Aussie Rules is written by Victorians & the AFL adopted it as their own. An Aussie rules footballer was that, now he is an AFL footballer, doesnt mean he/her has any claims to have played at the highest level.

PC gobbledygook embrace by would be influencers to the mindless.

Where I work, whether or not I'm married or shoplift whether I go to a Synagogue or a brothel has nothing to do with my footy club & I dont want influencers to use my footy club for their own purposes.
We need honesty from politicians, not introducing their poison to sport. Sport bind us, politics divide us.
Previous generations understand this, thats why sport is far more widely supported than politics.

Beware do gooders selling poison.

which poison do you think the afl are selling us? not abusing women and children, treating trans/gay people as equals, abolishing racism in society and sport, doing things to improve the quality of life for aboriginal people to be equal to non-aboriginals? what terrible poisons they are.

 

[The Warlord]

Very well aware, please continue ....

Well, on the global level the bankers drowned us in debt by forcing the nationalisation of failed banks in order to stave complete collapse of the world financial system.

Closer to home bankers drown us in debt largely through their influence on government to keep house prices artificially high.

 

[Virgin Dog]

which poison do you think the afl are selling us? not abusing women ...

Not sure how much positive the AFL is doing in this space when they have Wayne Carey in one of the highest profile commentary positions available