Review Geelong defeats GCS by 34 points. Rd 10, 2021

[DanA]

So let’s look at Kolodjashnij on measures in the areas he is being criticised here.

Already covered that he is 6th of 45 in terms of contested defensive losses. So elite on that measure.

The criticism is he turns the ball over and I have some time for that.

On kicking efficiency, of those same 45 players, he has efficiency of 77% which places him 17th of 45. So surprisingly high IMO.

On turnovers, again of the same 45 players, he has had 215 career turnovers which ranks 33rd (so 12th best). Again, surprising but them’s the facts.

What 45 players are we talking about?

 

[bombersboy]

Duncan had one arm free but was slow to brace himself. Two weeks is unfair. Looked like it deserved a fine


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Duncan was turned/rolled onto the side where his arm was pinned. He had no chance/opportunity to use the arm that was free to brace himself.

 

[catempire]

On turnovers, again of the same 45 players, he has had 215 career turnovers which ranks 33rd (so 12th best). Again, surprising but them’s the facts.

Should look at averages here to be fair.

Of players averaging 2.3 contests or more (Kolodshashnij and peers), he averages 1.8 turnovers per game which ranks equal 9th best out of 49.

 

[Spazz Cat]

While Kolo can have some fantastic games he is definitely not as great as some think.
While Kolo can have some absolutely horrendous moments and bad games he is absolutely nowhere near as bad as people think.
It all averages out.

 

[catempire]

What 45 players are we talking about?

It’s the 45 current players who have 200 or more career contested defensive one-on-ones. I’ve chosen that cohort as it means we are comparing like players.

 

[thejester]

It’s the 45 current players who have 200 or more career contested defensive one-on-ones. I’ve chosen that cohort as it means we are comparing like players.

How many other Geelong players are on that list out of interest?

 

[catempire]

How many other Geelong players are on that list out of interest?

It’s Blicavs, Henderson, Kolo and Tuohy. Stewart on 155 CDOOOs. Stewart has the best kicking efficiency of the lot but also makes the most turnovers per game (twice as many as Kolo).

 

[Spazz Cat]

It’s Blicavs, Henderson, Kolo and Tuohy. Stewart on 155 CDOOOs. Stewart has the best kicking efficiency of the lot but also makes the most turnovers per game (twice as many as Kolo).

Anyway you can see turnovers that turn into scores?

 

[catempire]

Anyway you can see turnovers that turn into scores?

Don’t think that’s published anywhere.

 

[FredLeDeux]

It’s Blicavs, Henderson, Kolo and Tuohy. Stewart on 155 CDOOOs. Stewart has the best kicking efficiency of the lot but also makes the most turnovers per game (twice as many as Kolo).

**** your Facts.

Us Anti-Koloists is gonna stick to the only real measure in these things - Internal Truthiness!

In fact, what's the betting that within 24 hours it will be like these facts and these posts never even existed.

 

[Sire of Claude]

Interesting discussion re Kolo. It's my observation that nearly all his turnovers are when he attempts dinky little short kicks deep in defence. It should be possible to coach this out of him. I'm sceptical about Stewart having more turnovers: where do they occur, one wonders, since Stewart is far more likely than Kolo to be turning defence in to attack.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Don’t think that’s published anywhere.

Interesting discussion re Kolo. It's my observation that nearly all his turnovers are when he attempts dinky little short kicks deep in defence. It should be possible to coach this out of him. I'm sceptical about Stewart having more turnovers: where do they occur, one wonders, since Stewart is far more likely than Kolo to be turning defence in to attack.

Told ya

 

[thejester]

Interesting discussion re Kolo. It's my observation that nearly all his turnovers are when he attempts dinky little short kicks deep in defence. It should be possible to coach this out of him. I'm sceptical about Stewart having more turnovers: where do they occur, one wonders, since Stewart is far more likely than Kolo to be turning defence in to attack.

Stewart has more turnovers precisely because Kolo mainly kicks short. His howlers might be more memorable but generally he takes low-risk options, unlike Stewart.

 

[DanA]

It’s the 45 current players who have 200 or more career contested defensive one-on-ones. I’ve chosen that cohort as it means we are comparing like players.

Okay gotcha, missed this and needed some context.

This is "feels" again but my suspicion is that if you plotted a scatter graph of aggressive ball use and turnovers per possession. Kolo is in the bottom left quadrant while Stewart would be in the top right. You can't compare that, stats have to be applied in the context of how a player is used. Regardless, guys like Darcy Moore, Shannon Hurn, Tom Stewart, and James Sicily can't reasonably be compared to Kolo as they are quarterbacks and Kolo is a stopper.

 

[Seeds]

It’s Blicavs, Henderson, Kolo and Tuohy. Stewart on 155 CDOOOs. Stewart has the best kicking efficiency of the lot but also makes the most turnovers per game (twice as many as Kolo).

But Stewart has far more disposals then kolo so that’s a silly comparison. What is a better measure is turnovers per disposal. Although even then that’s not a great measure as Stewart tries to take the game on. Most of kolos possessions are chip kicks around the backline. 1 turnover of a chip kick backwards in the back fifty is worse then 4 turnovers booted 40 metres to a contest on thé wing. We need better stats.

 

[Seeds]

Stewart has more turnovers precisely because Kolo mainly kicks short. His howlers might be more memorable but generally he takes low-risk options, unlike Stewart.

Exactly. And Stewart has double the disposals.

 

[Spazz Cat]

Told ya

I'm not against Kolo. But some players attack more and take more risks.
Indide midfielders also have more turnovers because they are under pressure.
That's a fact yeah.
What happens if you look at the weather app and it tells you it's not raining but its bucketing down outside?
"Nup its not raining cause it says so. I'm not getting wet and cold in my t-shirt. It's just not happening"
You must get the flu a lot.

 

[catempire]

Okay gotcha, missed this and needed some context.

This is "feels" again but my suspicion is that if you plotted a scatter graph of aggressive ball use and turnovers per possession. Kolo is in the bottom left quadrant while Stewart would be in the top right. You can't compare that, stats have to be applied in the context of how a player is used. Guys like Darcy Moore, Shannon Hurn, Tom Stewart, and James Sicily can't reasonably be compared to Kolo as they are quarterbacks and Kolo is a stopper.

You might be right but most of the 45 players (or 49 for average turnovers) are players like Kolo and not like Stewart. That’s why it’s useful to compare them.

 

[Seeds]

fu** your Facts.

Us Anti-Koloists is gonna stick to the only real measure in these things - Internal Truthiness!

In fact, what's the betting that within 24 hours it will be like these facts and these posts never even existed.

F*** you facts. stewart twice as many turnovers but also twice as many disposals. So they are the same In turnovers per disposal. Only difference is Stewart takes risks and goes foward where kolo chip kicks to safe options backwards.

 

[thejester]

But Stewart has far more disposals then kolo so that’s a silly comparison. What is a better measure is turnovers per disposal. Although even then that’s not a great measure as Stewart tries to take the game on. Most of kolos possessions are chip kicks around the backline. 1 turnover of a chip kick backwards in the back fifty is worse then 4 turnovers booted 40 metres to a contest on thé wing. We need better stats.

A 40m kick to a contest wouldn't be considered a turnover, though.

 

[Seeds]

A 40m kick to a contest wouldn't be considered a turnover, though.

if it doesn’t make it to the contest and marked by a player 3 metres in front of the contest it would be though.

 

[catempire]

I see we’ve latched onto the turnovers point, creating a plausible yet unprovable narrative, and conveniently ignored the main point which started this which is that Kolo is selected because he’s a very reliable and effective negative defender.

 

[Seeds]

I see we’ve latched onto the turnovers point, creating a plausible yet unprovable narrative, and conveniently ignored the main point which started this which is that Kolo is selected because he’s a very reliable and effective negative defender.

Got stats to back that up?

you bought up the turnovers.

 

[cats_09]

But Stewart has far more disposals then kolo so that’s a silly comparison. What is a better measure is turnovers per disposal. Although even then that’s not a great measure as Stewart tries to take the game on. Most of kolos possessions are chip kicks around the backline. 1 turnover of a chip kick backwards in the back fifty is worse then 4 turnovers booted 40 metres to a contest on thé wing. We need better stats.

If Stewart averages twice as many disposals & twice as many turnovers as Kolodjashnij, wouldn't the ratio of turnovers per disposal then be the same (or close to) for both players

 

[Seeds]

If Stewart averages twice as many disposals & twice as many turnovers as Kolodjashnij, wouldn't the ratio of turnovers per disposal then be the same (or close to) for both players

Yes