List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

George · Aug 22, 2021

Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link

To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

www.bigfooty.com

Yawkey way · Jun 1, 2021

bird_man said:
The fact that we wanted to play two rucks means there was every chance Bruce would have been playing VFL for periods and his value the following year when out of contract would have been even lower.

With the form he was in last year and the fact we had Marshall forward we would have possiboy got a 3rd rounder and not the 2nd and 3rd we did.

Did we though, I thought Ryder surprised everyone and rather than a back up he’s become a star for us.

Anyway trade bruce if the deals right, I just don’t believe in accepting mates rates for contracted players. We have no way of knowing how bruce would have fared I rated him higher than a lot of people, not often out marked and could really split a pack.

Mowman · Jun 1, 2021

Yawkey way said:
Butler is playing very poorly this year and we traded firsts and gave up a second for Higgins.

So butler looked a bargain last year and Higgins was overs not unders imo. I couldn’t tell you if richmond supporters are bothered, maybe they aren’t but three flags in four years will do that I guess.

Really like Higgins think he will be very good player for us. 100 plus games

stavro#4 · Jun 1, 2021

Yawkey way said:
How the hell does he get traded if he’s required and contracted, he doesn’t.

If every contracted player who had an offer from a rival was traded then trade week would be nonstop action. I’m of the school that thinks it’s team first, if you’re contracted and required then it’s a win for us or you stay put. Honestly when we approach a contracted player don’t you expect to pay overs if he’s required.

A variety of reasons could impact our situation.

from memory Jones was the last nomination wasn’t he? Richmond chased hard before he nominated us.

there was a comment from gags saying when someone nominates you - you need to get the deal done.

maybe we bit the bullet on the asking price?

still don’t think Bruce is a huge loss.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

stavro#4 said:
I’m pretty sure Jon Ralph posted his stat averages for the games he played the other week. Didnt look like a finished footballer. Looked like an elite mid.

his knee was what screwed his last 12 months at Sydney. Strangely if I remember the human anatomy- it’s his hamstrings and calf’s that have ruined his time with us.

So great trade then. Good work Saints.

Yawkey way · Jun 1, 2021

Mowman said:
Really like Higgins think he will be very good player for us. 100 plus games

So do I but he wasn’t a give away, we payed what he was worth plus some imo.

I think he’s been ok without having a lot go his way including what’s been a pretty dysfunctional forward line at times. I really like the way he’s able to compete in the air, he’s got the ball to ground in several situations when he was one out and undersized.

bird_man · Jun 1, 2021

Yawkey way said:
Did we though, I thought Ryder surprised everyone and rather than a back up he’s become a star for us.

Anyway trade bruce if the deals right, I just don’t believe in accepting mates rates for contracted players. We have no way of knowing how bruce would have fared I rated him higher than a lot of people, not often out marked and could really split a pack.

Yes we did. We were vocal about wanting to get Marshall forward more. The guy from Geelong was brought over for depth not Ryder.

We started Ryder in the 22 from round one. Unfortunately it didn't work right away so he did play a few games in the VFL at staged but the goal was always two rucks.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

stavro#4 said:
He also has huge queries over his disposal and was seen as abit of a one trick pony that had speed and little else.

don’t rewrite history

Why the **** did we get him then? The list looks great, I'm on the wrong track and everything is fine. Top 4 next year, premiership 2023 in the bag just before we go on our 5-peat..

Yawkey way · Jun 1, 2021

stavro#4 said:
A variety of reasons could impact our situation.

from memory Jones was the last nomination wasn’t he? Richmond chased hard before he nominated us.

there was a comment from gags saying when someone nominates you - you need to get the deal done.

maybe we bit the bullet on the asking price?

still don’t think Bruce is a huge loss.

I do remember that, anyway questions will always come thick and fast when you have our percentage and have dropped off the pace.

Yes we have injuries but I guess when a lack of youth or quality depth are exposed every trade gets looked at with a critical eye. Also I carry the mental scares of st Kilda getting bent over by all and sundry, Russell Greene was a highlight, still can’t believe we did that.

stavro#4 · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Why the fu** did we get him then? The list looks great, I'm on the wrong track and everything is fine. Top 4 next year, premiership 2023 in the bag just before we go on our 5-peat..

I’m not saying the list is perfect at all. But choosing the Bruce Hind and Hanners mountain to die on isn’t something I would do.

BrutThough · Jun 1, 2021

stavro#4 said:
A variety of reasons could impact our situation.

from memory Jones was the last nomination wasn’t he? Richmond chased hard before he nominated us.

there was a comment from gags saying when someone nominates you - you need to get the deal done.

maybe we bit the bullet on the asking price?

still don’t think Bruce is a huge loss.

And even if it was under, the Bruce trade got us what we needed to get Jones and then Butler.

And the end of the night, we had got the 5 players we wanted.

Other clubs who spent the entire trade period arguing to make sure their club 'won' the trade on paper left that night without the players they wanted.

Yawkey way · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
Why the fu** did we get him then? The list looks great, I'm on the wrong track and everything is fine. Top 4 next year, premiership 2023 in the bag just before we go on our 5-peat..

That’s what makes it seem a total waste, recruiting him only to trade him back for peanuts.

We gave him the AFL exposure he lacked and couldn’t get at Essendon then showed him the door. I’m so dirty on how Ben long has gone backwards, I never really rated him as highly as the club clearly did but he’s on the edge now by the looks of things.

Too many small forwards and halfback flankers, should send them a message about mids, outside run and the importance of skills and marking ability. If nothing else I could frame the response from the trainee receptionist, funniest thing in ages I could smell the burn.

Sully111 · Jun 1, 2021

Ephemeral Hope said:
Jeez do you guys think Richmond supporters are sooking over Butler coming to us for nothing and playing almost AA level? They gave us Higgins too who’s our leading goal kicker this year. That’s our best forward last year and our best forward this year Richmond gave away for unders.

It’s the same as the Hind trade.

Richmond are winning flags. Not having one finals win then looking like a complete shambles the following year.

ScrappyDo · Jun 1, 2021

Mowman said:
Is it fact that we did front load his contract ?
If so what sort of money do we think he is on next year

Not fact, maths.

.Club states repeatedly that they're at minimum cap for several years.
.Hanners comes in as the accrued funds hit the defunct threshold.
.Widely reported 800k pa contract
.Lethers states last year that Hanners in on circa 600k

Available SC reserve = Missing 200k pa from Hanners' wage.

I might be wrong.
But I'm not.

ScrappyDo · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I think someone said he's still on $600k a year. He was done though when we got him and it was a big risk. I think in hindsight drafting a bit more then would have been better management and hit the trades afterwards. Too late now, we gambled and it didn't pay off. Just got to make the next ones the right moves. To me we look a bit like Carlton. Going back to getting good high draft pick kids is the better option usually and then cherry pick for needs when you're close.

Yes.
The advent of free agency means the premium mature players are available at no trade cost to contending sides.
What this means, is only chumps trade out 1st round picks.

Hill himself has been a mistake to date but there's still time for redemption.
I also posted a review of the journey of that pick 6 a while back, and we did pretty well on the whole.

Unlike yourself I'm not too concerned with the now, so long as we make the right moves going forward.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
Yes.
The advent of free agency means the premium mature players are available at no trade cost to contending sides.
What this means, is only chumps trade out 1st round picks.

Hill himself has been a mistake to date but there's still time for redemption.
I also posted a review of the journey of that pick 6 a while back, and we did pretty well on the whole.

Unlike yourself I'm not too concerned with the now, so long as we make the right moves going forward.

That's fine but if we don't start playing consistent finals soon we'll be ****ed. We have lost one generation and we stay down longer we will just die out.

LiterallyNobody · Jun 1, 2021

Sully111 said:
Richmond are winning flags. Not having one finals win then looking like a complete shambles the following year.

If I may... are we Richmond 2016? Made finals in 2015 (third year in a row though they lost all three elimination finals) then struggled and finished way down the bottom. Started with a bang in 2017 and... well we all know the rest don’t we.

what I mean is they didn’t even win a final - made three finals and lost them all (frankly I’d rather lose three from three than win one from one but that’s just me) and maybe after three straight finals series they thought they would be a powerhouse?

then they had their review and sorted their shit out the next year.

ScrappyDo · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
That's fine but if we don't start playing consistent finals soon we'll be f’ed. We have lost one generation and we stay down longer we will just die out.

We have a finals list but they lack maturity and appear injury prone.
Last year Ratts backed the kids and it paid dividends.
This year they screwed the pooch on rule changes, lost some games then lost their nerve with selection.
Ratts needs to rediscover his courage.

gringo2011 · Jun 1, 2021

ScrappyDo said:
We have a finals list but they lack maturity and appear injury prone.
Last year Ratts backed the kids and it paid dividends.
This year they screwed the pooch on rule changes, lost some games then lost their nerve with selection.
Ratts needs to rediscover his courage.

We played kids that were already developed though. The kids he played had 2 years under Richo and we had a pretty experienced core.

ScrappyDo · Jun 1, 2021

gringo2011 said:
We played kids that were already developed though. The kids he played had 2 years under Richo and we had a pretty experienced core.

I've probably overstated that. I guess I'm a bit triggered by Chip probably coming in..

Sully111 · Jun 1, 2021

El_Duderino said:
If I may... are we Richmond 2016? Made finals in 2015 (third year in a row though they lost all three elimination finals) then struggled and finished way down the bottom. Started with a bang in 2017 and... well we all know the rest don’t we.

what I mean is they didn’t even win a final - made three finals and lost them all (frankly I’d rather lose three from three than win one from one but that’s just me) and maybe after three straight finals series they thought they would be a powerhouse?

then they had their review and sorted their sh*t out the next year.

Yeah but i was answering a post about them trading butler and higgins, both of which happened after they'd won flags.

g_TRAIN · Jun 1, 2021

BrutThough said:
Last year when he was being offered his contract, he was a depth player when comparing him to who else was in form in our side.

Yeah but he wouldn't have been if we identified his talent as a HBF and that's the point. We didn't!

g_TRAIN · Jun 1, 2021

The Hind thing pisses me off because I was saying we should have tried him at HBF for the last two years. I had a feeling he would be a gun after watching him dominate the few times he got to play HBF for Sandy. I remember one game he had 41 touches and a goal and was just a class above everyone on the ground.

We really should have spotted it. I'll accept mistakes but I really hope Brett Ratten (who I do rate highly) and the selection committee concede they ****ed up and pledge not to let another gun walk without trying them in their preferred position.

Crusty Undies · Jun 1, 2021

BrutThough said:
These claims of mismanagement of him have got out of control.

I know there is this need to find blame for every little thing that happens but playing Paton, Clark, Coffield and Long ahead of Hind was not mismanagement. Finding a different position that Hind could play in our best 22 was not mismanagement. The same claims of mismanagement could be made if we had just kept him playing in the reserves at half back when there was a spot up forward that he could contribute in.

If it is acceptable for our Captain to be moved out of the backline to accommodate younger players performing better than him, than it is acceptable enough for Nick Bloody Hind to have to learn another role at AFL level because other players on our list were consistently performing at half back.

Playing Long ahead of anyone and Clark in the backline IS mismanagement. One is a VFL quality player and the other is a midfielder. You telling me there was not a single way to find a spot for Hind in defence? Because if you are then we shouldn't have drafted him.

George · Jun 1, 2021

g_TRAIN said:
The Hind thing pisses me off because I was saying we should have tried him at HBF for the last two years. I had a feeling he would be a gun after watching him dominate the few times he got to play HBF for Sandy. I remember one game he had 41 touches and a goal and was just a class above everyone on the ground.

We really should have spotted it. I'll accept mistakes but I really hope Brett Ratten (who I do rate highly) and the selection committee concede they f’ed up and pledge not to let another gun walk without trying them in their preferred position.

That's great, in the form he was in who was he replacing last year?

George · Jun 1, 2021

Crusty Undies said:
Playing Long ahead of anyone and Clark in the backline IS mismanagement. One is a VFL quality player and the other is a midfielder. You telling me there was not a single way to find a spot for Hind in defence? Because if you are then we shouldn't have drafted him.

There were others ahead of him at his position, he looked elsewhere.

Playing Clark at half back isn't mismanagement at all. In fact playing any young player at half back isn't mismanagement. It allows them to see and understand the game better behind the ball. It's one of the easiest positions on the ground and allows the player to naturally be more involved in the game / pick up some easy touches. There's a reason Hill went back there.

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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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