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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

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Aug 17, 2015
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Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.
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Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley


Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com



Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)
 
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Hi guys,

This thread will always get a bit wild in while we're waiting for trade period to start and some news to come out.
In the meantime people will share their opinions on the list or players, but the normal forum rules will apply.

1. If you see a post that you feel breaches the rules, report it.
2. If you have a problem with a particular poster, you can Ignore them so you don't see their posts.
3. Posts calling out specific users contribute nothing except starting arguments and taking the thread off-topic. Don't do this.

Thanks,
 
hayes said:
The us vs Carlton list debate reminds me of the one we used to have with Melbourne a few years ago. It was always their midfield was better than ours but we’re ahead at all the other positions with better depth. Now look where Melbourne have gotten to.
Click to expand...
Well to be fair quite a lot has changed since then as well. Depending on when you’re talking about, they’ve traded/drafted/brought in May, Lever, Brown, Fritsch, Jackson and Pickett since then, while we’ve had literally 3 of our best 4 players from that time have their careers ended prematurely by unforeseen serious injury/health/mental health issues, in Steven (4-time B&F), Carlisle (was gunning it at 25/26yo, before his back issues) and Roberton (AA squad at 26yo. Plays 5 more games).

Take 3 of the best 4 out of any team unexpectedly (and permanently) and it’s going to be a pretty damn big roadblock for them on their journey and almost certainly detail it. Temporarily at least.

Especially if you’ve got $2mil of your salary cap tied up in them and they’re either not playing, or playing like a shadow of their former selves. Add Paddy into that and it’s $2.5mil.
 
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jwikked said:
What’s he saying that is wrong? People like to go at him for his negativity but the truth is he is usually right to do so.
He was right to question our rebuild. He’s right to question the direction of the club. Where was the club sitting at the halfway point of the year? Just about rock bottom.
I’m not sure why blind faith in the club is what is required to be a supporter. The club has gotten a lot of things wrong in the last 10 years. I think the people running the club now are the best we’ve had for a long time but I probably said the same thing when Richo was appointed as coach.
Click to expand...
Well said & as for yipper & his comments at least gringo2011 is telling it how he sees it & does it regularly. Love him or hate him, he is our gringo2011so don’t come on here & start potting him. We have experts on here that are fully trained to do that. Deep down We All ❤Gringo
 
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Dunstan will be lucky to find a spot on a senior list next year.
 
Trade Radio - BJ floating Ben Long to Dons - says they have asked the question. I personally would be physically ill to see Long in the Bombers jumper.
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
Wasn’t there a rumour that he’d had a run in with Ratts after the Geelong game?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
No I think that was Carlisle
 
Premium said:
Dunstan's last game he had 20 touches against Carlton and for a inside mid - it is woeful , but made it worse was he had 8 clangers ans 6 turnovers and from that you fully understand why he is gone.
He played 12 games and we won 5 , so you can see he was no game changer - even Bytel had a better game winning ratio.
Click to expand...

Really going to go here? Cherry picking at it's finest!

Crouch played 20 games this year with seven games under 25 disposals. Steele played 22 games with five games under 25 disposals.

17 disp with 5 clangers round 19
21 disp with 9 clangers round 10
18 disp with 5 clangers round 6
15 disp with 4 clangers round 3

Gresham 2020 played 11 games with seven of those under 19 disposals. Steele played 19 games with three games under 21 disposals.

10 disp - 3 clangers - round 4
13 disp - 4 clangers - round 5
17 disp - 6 clangers - round 6

Dunstan played 12 games this year with three games under 25 disposals. Steele played 22 games with five games under 25 disposals.

16 disp - 5 clangers - round 5
18 disp - 4 clangers - round 19
20 disp - 8 clangers - round 22

Steele 2021 disposal efficiency 70.7 averaging 29.1 disposals
Crouch 2021 disposal efficiency 65.5 averaging 26.4 disposals
Dunstan 2021 disposal efficiency 66.0 averaging 25.2 disposals


Steele 2020 disposal efficiency 71.0 averaging 21.9 disposals
Gresham 2020 disposal efficiency 58.8 averaging 17.6 disposals

According to the nuffie brigade, Greshams an A grader, Crouch gets a pass, Dunstan is a spud while Steele is an AA champion.

Bytel and Clarke get a pass due to age, games played. Ross no point, he's barely AFL standard.

This is akin to the 2014 draft thread on this forum if anyone wants to search for it. The jumping for joy when we took McCartin first.... lol and wow. Me sad face, just reading it!
 

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Sun Ra said:
Also Dunstan shouldn't have been dropped last round - that was, to put it mildly, a harsh call on him.
Click to expand...
It’s not about him though, it’s about the team/club, and it was the best thing for the team/club, because we were no longer in the hunt for finals and had the opportunity to pick a team with an eye to the future.

As such, it made a lot of sense to drop a guy who we knew wouldn’t be at the club next year, who’s form had dropped off, for the young guy who has been earmarked to replace him.
 
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One thing that annoys me quite a bit, is how biased/clueless the media can be, especially when it comes to St Kilda. I think it was on trade radio how they were saying how good Dunstan was this year, and that Brad crouch was just serviceable, and that it wasn't really a good "Trade" (we didn't even trade for him!). Dunstan played majority of the time in the Centre as was unable to play anywhere else, Crouch got pushed out to the Half Forward as a result, yet if you look at the stats of the players, Crouch was statistically better in key areas such as disposals and tackles, and wasn't too far behind in Clearances and inside 50's, even though he wasn't playing in the middle for anywhere near as much as Dunstan was. Also proves that Crouch is arguably a far better 2 way runner, as nearly doubled Dunstan's rebound 50's per game, showing that he works back to help support the defenders.

Crouch
1633051108334.png

Dunstan
1633051133535.png
 
Winmar2Lockett said:
Posted this in the Draft thread too... interesting to consider when debating whether splitting our first pick is warranted.

How often do top 10 picks turn into All-Australian calibre players?

We've crunched the numbers, looking at 2005 to 2015.
www.sen.com.au www.sen.com.au
Click to expand...


If you took GWS and Gold Coasts expansion drafts out and us it would be a lot more condensed.

Even in their article they say it's closer to a 20% chance of an AA in the first 10 picks. That's one in 5 make AA and there are handy players outside of that list of AAs. If it's 28 percent it's one in every 4 make an AA squad. We've had about one AA in 10 years and wouldn't have drafted one since about 2003 so it looks good odds to me. Most of the absolute busts were GC and GWS reaching for players when they had so many picks that they could burn them.
 
aussierulesrules said:
Well to be fair quite a lot has changed since then as well. Depending on when you’re talking about, they’ve traded/drafted/brought in May, Lever, Brown, Fritsch, Jackson and Pickett since then, while we’ve had literally 3 of our best 4 players from that time have their careers ended prematurely by unforeseen serious injury/health/mental health issues, in Steven (4-time B&F), Carlisle (was gunning it at 25/26yo, before his back issues) and Roberton (AA squad at 26yo. Plays 5 more games).

Take 3 of the best 4 out of any team unexpectedly (and permanently) and it’s going to be a pretty damn big roadblock for them on their journey and almost certainly detail it. Temporarily at least.

Especially if you’ve got $2mil of your salary cap tied up in them and they’re either not playing, or playing like a shadow of their former selves. Add Paddy into that and it’s $2.5mil.
Click to expand...
Why stop there. Hugh, Koby, Hanners, Freezer.
 

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Joffaboy said:
Indeed.
It has been reported our preseason was not what it should have been after the 2020 bubble etc, but my take is that the club as a whole are a bit mentally weak, just thought they would make the finals as a given and then would not do the work to do so.

We were so incredibly inconsistent, even in games, the WCE first round game comes to mind. Absolutely looked mentally shot in the first half of the year, culminating in losing to Adelaide in the worst loss of the year.

The bye comes and because of % and ladder position we are a huge long shot to make finals. Guess what, we become consistent, we start winning well and our losses were respectable and the supporters can cope with a team who tries but not good enough on the day.

The second half of the season is a reflection on what we needed to do all season to make the eight. To me this shows that the team is a bit mentally weak. They did not handle the pressure when we had a chance to make the eight, and when the season was stuffed, played with a bit more freedom and structure, and pressure.

We have the players to make the eight and go up the ladder, what's between the ears is something that needs to be worked.
Click to expand...


I guess it's a difference of perception then. I see us as a pretty mediocre list with not much top end that play with a bit of spirit. If we can play good team footy we can beat most sides. That said we are vulnerable to sides that can come at us and hit our weaknesses. We definitely seem to get mentally overwhelmed when there is a chance to progress though.

I think the mid season change was a few things, we brought in Dunny over kids who was able to play at a higher level immediately and changed for a slow kick mark build up style to a more frenetic run and carry game. It seemed to make the footy more fun and hid a lot of the weaknesses in our skills and application.
 
BrutThough said:
I know Brownlow votes are meaningless, but it seems remarkable that someone can get 11 votes and not be on a senior list the following year.
Click to expand...
It is indeed remarkable! What’s not in his favour though is that they all came in a 6 week purple-patch- when he was pretty much playing for his career- and that in his last 5 games he dropped back to more like his old self. Including 18 and 20 disposal games.

The other clubs probably realise they’re not getting purple-patch, 11-Brownlow-votes-in-6-games Dunstan.

He also had a 6 week purple-patch at the end of 2017 (when he averaged 28 disposals a game and kicked 5 goals)
 
FootyMaster11 said:
One thing that annoys me quite a bit, is how biased/clueless the media can be, especially when it comes to St Kilda. I think it was on trade radio how they were saying how good Dunstan was this year, and that Brad crouch was just serviceable, and that it wasn't really a good "Trade" (we didn't even trade for him!). Dunstan played majority of the time in the Centre as was unable to play anywhere else, Crouch got pushed out to the Half Forward as a result, yet if you look at the stats of the players, Crouch was statistically better in key areas such as disposals and tackles, and wasn't too far behind in Clearances and inside 50's, even though he wasn't playing in the middle for anywhere near as much as Dunstan was. Also proves that Crouch is arguably a far better 2 way runner, as nearly doubled Dunstan's rebound 50's per game, showing that he works back to help support the defenders.

Crouch
View attachment 1250376

Dunstan
View attachment 1250377
Click to expand...

Load
of
cherry
picking
crap

and he did play midfield just as much as Dunstan.

Luke Dunstan and Brad Crouch AFL Stats Comparison

Luke Dunstan and Brad Crouch AFL Stats Comparison.
www.footywire.com www.footywire.com

I can play this game too!

Dunstan averaged 50% more marks, 50% more inside 50s and 50% metres gained while also averaging more kicks, disposal efficiency, clearances in both centre and stoppages, 1%ers, intercepts and a better supercoach score while having less overall disposals.
 
aussierulesrules said:
It is indeed remarkable! What’s not in his favour though is that they all came in a 6 week purple-patch- when he was pretty much playing for his career- and that in his last 5 games he dropped back to more like his old self. Including 18 and 20 disposal games.

The other clubs probably realise they’re not getting purple-patch, 11-Brownlow-votes-in-6-games Dunstan.
Click to expand...
The circumstances around list sizes and the salary cap probably aren't helping either.
 
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