List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

George · Aug 24, 2021

Continued in Part III

List Mgmt. - 2021 Trade Thread - Part III

We are onto Part 3.

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Delisted;
Oscar Clavarino
Sam Alabakis

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Dylan Roberton
Shaun McKernan
James Frawley

Current Players Out of Contract;
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link

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List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...

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Restricted and Unrestricted Free Agency Window
Friday October 1 – Friday October 8

Trade Period
Players: Monday October 4 – Wednesday October 13
Picks: Monday October 4 – tbc (approx. Friday November 19)

List Lodgement 1
tbc (approx. Thursday October 28)

Delisted Free Agency Window 1
tbc (approx. Friday October 29 - Monday November 8)

List Lodgement 2 (Final date for primary list delistings)
tbc (approx. Tuesday November 9)

Delisted Free Agency Window 2
tbc (approx. Wednesday November 10 - Friday November 19)

Mangus · Oct 2, 2021

botts said:
What’s the knock on him? I don’t get it. He seems to dominate and hasn’t featured in any phantom draft order. Do recruiters think he has reached high full potential?

Re: Trudgeon I haven't seen him play for about 3 years but he was a key position defender for most of his early junior football, last time I saw him play was for Carey and he was Full Back. He didn't keep growing to KP height so it is a credit to him he was able to transition to be a dominant mid, you see the reverse happen a lot with kids who grow late but few who go the other way. He is a 19 year old so was draft eligible last year and missed out. I did see him training by himself a few times over summer though around the local cricket ground and he was smashing lap after lap around the oval at speed. I would be overjoyed to see any of our Saints listed players running at the intensity he was. He is a big powerful kid who from what I saw is already training at an elite level. I imagine the knock on him is whether there is much scope for improvement. Certainly if someone takes a punt on him they won't have to worry about his commitment to the AFL lifestyle.

BrutThough · Oct 2, 2021

letssmashem said:
Yeah I agree with that.

I just think we get caught up with high end draft picks. Other clubs have still got the rose tinted glasses on coffield...mainly because he was drafted pick #8. If the internal opinion is highmore is the better interceptor, then let's take advantage of the esteemed perception of coffield and use the pick to get another midfielder. I'm sure coffield would be open to a trade if he's been told he's 2nd or 3rd in the defender pecking order

Do we know if Highmore is a better interceptor though? He played better in games this year but Coffield has probably had better 'best games' than Highmore at this stage.

Unless they are 100% sure Coffield will never return to his 2020 form, there isnt a need to trade him. We have seen he is capable of being a very good intercepting defender and can do it under finals pressure. He had a poor year - probably get ahead of himself and didnt go hard enough in the preseason.

What do we gain by trading him now before giving him the chance to regain his best form and learn from what is a very common mistake that 21 year old footballers make?

gringo2011 · Oct 2, 2021

Mangus said:
Re: Trudgeon I haven't seen him play for about 3 years but he was a key position defender for most of his early junior football, last time I saw him play was for Carey and he was Full Back. He didn't keep growing to KP height so it is a credit to him he was able to transition to be a dominant mid, you see the reverse happen a lot with kids who grow late but few who go the other way. He is a 19 year old so was draft eligible last year and missed out. I did see him training by himself a few times over summer though around the local cricket ground and he was smashing lap after lap around the oval at speed. I would be overjoyed to see any of our Saints listed players running at the intensity he was. He is a big powerful kid who from what I saw is already training at an elite level. I imagine the knock on him is whether there is much scope for improvement. Certainly if someone takes a punt on him they won't have to worry about his commitment to the AFL lifestyle.

He's had the most dominant NAB league season ever. You don't accidentally do that. He looks like a player that inexplicably gets over looked as clubs look for the negatives.

letssmashem · Oct 2, 2021

BrutThough said:
Do we know if Highmore is a better interceptor though? He played better in games this year but Coffield has probably had better 'best games' than Highmore at this stage.

Unless they are 100% sure Coffield will never return to his 2020 form, there isnt a need to trade him. We have seen he is capable of being a very good intercepting defender and can do it under finals pressure. He had a poor year - probably get ahead of himself and didnt go hard enough in the preseason.

What do we gain by trading him now before giving him the chance to regain his best form and learn from what is a very common mistake that 21 year old footballers make?

List management is not an exact science...it's based on perceptions. The red flag i have on Coffield is he had some real poor games for Sandringham this year. You'd like to see him dominate at this level. He was injury free as far as we know. Highmore, on the limited exposed form, shows more urgency compared to Coffield. I can't see how both can play in the same side going forward. We're better off making the call now and re-directing our assets to other areas of the ground-midfield.

hayes · Oct 2, 2021

We’ve lost it already and trade week hasn’t even started yet. Coffield is a top 10 pick, he cannot be traded under any circumstances. He’ll probably be a slow developer like everyone on our list but he’ll justify that pick one day when Ratten actually starts playing him to his strengths again.

Dr Spaceman · Oct 2, 2021

With Heath and perhaps another ruckman coming in, then surely we don’t need to retain this Hunter fella.

Let’s move him on while the smooth mover still has some value

bird_man · Oct 2, 2021

gringo2011 said:
He's had the most dominant NAB league season ever. You don't accidentally do that. He looks like a player that inexplicably gets over looked as clubs look for the negatives.

These recruiters would have watched him plenty, they wouldn't just be looking at his super coach points

MrFoster · Oct 2, 2021

bird_man said:
Plenty of great players taken in the teens also.

I guess it comes down to how Libba and co rate the draft. I think there'd be a reason we are chasing another pick.

It's only early days, but Libba seems to have a much better eye for talent than Trout, but he hasn't had a great hand in any draft since taking over.

I was agaijst trading Battle mid year but unless the plan is to move Battle to CHB I think he'll struggle to get a game this year with the emergence of Sharman.

Battle did ok at CHB in 2019 when we had lots injuries, play him (a natural forward) against tall and fast gun CHF like Franklin, Naughton is not ideal.. He can pinch hit in the backline doesn’t mean he is a good backman. Same with him playing on a wing. He is a natural leading 3rd tall, slow but good endurance, for that role Sharman looks already a better option than Battle and with Membrey also a 3rd tall forward, Battle will not get a lot of chances next year, unless we have more injuries or he wants to play VFL..

holllywood · Oct 2, 2021

While Melbourne are an excellent team, they did require the AFL to step in and make them stop being a basket case.

The AFL gave them Paul Roos and a CEO, which helped them get off the bottom of the ladder.

Yawkey way · Oct 2, 2021

bird_man said:
These recruiters would have watched him plenty, they wouldn't just be looking at his super coach points

I’m sure they have and as they often are their probably wrong about this kid as well. Anybody who finds the football that much against his peers is doing a lot right.

gringo2011 · Oct 2, 2021

bird_man said:
These recruiters would have watched him plenty, they wouldn't just be looking at his super coach points

they have made plenty of bad calls before.

Mstr Strokesman · Oct 2, 2021

letssmashem said:
List management is not an exact science...it's based on perceptions. The red flag i have on Coffield is he had some real poor games for Sandringham this year. You'd like to see him dominate at this level. He was injury free as far as we know. Highmore, on the limited exposed form, shows more urgency compared to Coffield. I can't see how both can play in the same side going forward. We're better off making the call now and re-directing our assets to other areas of the ground-midfield.

If we are to entertain trading The Coff, I would be looking at a swap for a mid, Rather than a draft pick, where we would have to wait 3 years before we find out if the kid is any good .
Something like Dunkley for Coffield
Listening to Gags and the need for speed and spread,can’t see why we didn’t take Trelor with Magpies paying a third of his contract?

BrutThough · Oct 2, 2021

letssmashem said:
List management is not an exact science...it's based on perceptions. The red flag i have on Coffield is he had some real poor games for Sandringham this year. You'd like to see him dominate at this level. He was injury free as far as we know. Highmore, on the limited exposed form, shows more urgency compared to Coffield. I can't see how both can play in the same side going forward. We're better off making the call now and re-directing our assets to other areas of the ground-midfield.

I get that. I just think Coffield has a higher ceiling and based off his 2020 form, I dont think trading away that quality of player for another stab in the dark is worth it.

Or that Highmore's 7 games were that incredible that trading away Coff is necessary - what if he is a flash in the pan player while Coffield just had down year, and we ended up trading someone who had shown A grade form 12 months prior just for the sake of it?

I also think they can play in the same side moving forward, especially if we don't find a quality tall defender this off season. If Wilkie continues to play undersized, both Coffield and Highmore easily fit in the team.

bird_man · Oct 2, 2021

gringo2011 said:
they have made plenty of bad calls before.

They have, but I don't think just because he gets super coach points he's going to be a good footballer.

If it were as easy as reading stats iut of the herald sun we'd all be able to do it I guess

Yawkey way said:
I’m sure they have and as they often are their probably wrong about this kid as well. Anybody who finds the football that much against his peers is doing a lot right.

The fact he hasnt got a gig obviously means he's doing a lot wrong too.

I've never seen him play so I'm not going to pretend I know, just stating there is clearly more to recruiting than looking at who gets the most super coach points

Mangus · Oct 2, 2021

Joffaboy said:
My god made a bit of sense there. Not sure about midfield first class, need a bit of work before they are Melbourne or Bulldog good but over all not a bad assessment

Here is some goss and don't @ me just got PM'ed this:

Battle and a fourth rounder to Brisbane for pick 14 with a swap of future picks. Don't know all the details but thats what I was told. Is it true? Well it is the silly season, but take it for what it is.

Brisbane have a potential pick 1 Father Son next year in Will Ashcroft. If this even has the remotest chance of being true I would imagine it will involve them beefing up their draft points in the 2022 draft. Possibly also they are looking to off load their 1st rounder next year like Collingwood did last year.

At face value Battle and junk for Pick 14 seems too good to be true.
But if it were next years first then makes more sense. We are in opposite positions next year they will want a lot of late picks and no early ones so they can accumulate the points to take Ashcroft and we will want 2 first round picks to start the bidding for Ben King. Maybe there is a win win in there for the banker to take advantage of he is a smart operator.

Saintos The ITK · Oct 2, 2021

I’m the only one here that always had faith in The D-Train and now I’m putting my faith in P Hunts.
Give him another year.

Groater · Oct 2, 2021

Mangus said:
At face value Battle and junk for Pick 14 seems too good to be true.

Eric Hipwood is a big loss for them. There aren't a lot of ready made replacements available.

Chef Ratts · Oct 2, 2021

End of second round compo pick to swans for trading Hewett to the blues

PlayerNumber9 · Oct 2, 2021

gringo2011 said:
These drafts are much more of a gamble than usual is the only issue. Long and Battle make more sense than Coffield. Battle looks like we are ruining him and Long looks like he needs a new start.

I don't know that we're ruining Battle. He's a guy that has a lot of great attributes, but they're just hot adding up to the great player that you would hope for. He hasn't been able to command a spot because he has never shown that he is a better option in the spot.

I like him as a forward (I think he's one of our most reliable shots at goal when he's in form) but his size and speed mean he can only play as a third tall - but he's picked behind Membrey and now potentially even Sharman.

As a defender he lacks the height to play as KPD, so again, he is playing as a third tall, and we have a long list of those.

Where I think he excels is as a defensive third tall, as seen against GWS in 2020 where he blanketed Haines and kicked a couple himself. I dream of him doing the same sort of job on McGovern when we play against the Weaggles (although King has taken that job into his on hands by just marking over the top of Gov).

The other role he excels at is as a true utility, where he can pinch hit in just about any position on the ground. This is actually where he can reliably bring value to the team, and could see him with a best 22 position. Of course this is an incredibly difficult role, where he needs to be able to take up a position during a game and perform well, often with little preparation.

The result is that he's probably never going to be a player that's seen as a first choice A grader, but rather a reliable soldier.

gringo2011 · Oct 2, 2021

bird_man said:
They have, but I don't think just because he gets super coach points he's going to be a good footballer.

If it were as easy as reading stats iut of the herald sun we'd all be able to do it I guess

The fact he hasnt got a gig obviously means he's doing a lot wrong too.

I've never seen him play so I'm not going to pretend I know, just stating there is clearly more to recruiting than looking at who gets the most super coach points

I obviously have seen **** all of any of them but I read reports on draft central and every week he's their best player and getting disposals and goals. I haven't seen any criticism off his deficiencies but perhaps they know more. He seems a pro kid as well. I don't get why you wouldn't give him a go in a pretty unknown draft. It seems insane.

Saint_Dos · Oct 2, 2021

Chef Ratts said:
End of second round compo pick to swans for trading Hewett to the blues

Need to find a new home for Ross and Dunstan. AFL is feeling very generous with compo this year it seems.
Sadly dont think it will happen

Yawkey way · Oct 2, 2021

bird_man said:
They have, but I don't think just because he gets super coach points he's going to be a good footballer.

If it were as easy as reading stats iut of the herald sun we'd all be able to do it I guess

The fact he hasnt got a gig obviously means he's doing a lot wrong too.

I've never seen him play so I'm not going to pretend I know, just stating there is clearly more to recruiting than looking at who gets the most super coach points

Yes of course there is but the misses are more famous than the hits across many codes. A lot of guys couldn’t play according to richo because he focused heavily on what players didn’t do. I’ve never seen this kid play so I have no idea what his game is like but if you can find the ball the way he does there’s something to work with Imo. Ben Paton was an overage player and he might just be the most complete player on our list.

Diehard Saint · Oct 2, 2021

BrutThough said:
Do we know if Highmore is a better interceptor though? He played better in games this year but Coffield has probably had better 'best games' than Highmore at this stage.

Unless they are 100% sure Coffield will never return to his 2020 form, there isnt a need to trade him. We have seen he is capable of being a very good intercepting defender and can do it under finals pressure. He had a poor year - probably get ahead of himself and didnt go hard enough in the preseason.

What do we gain by trading him now before giving him the chance to regain his best form and learn from what is a very common mistake that 21 year old footballers make?

Just can’t believe the club would be stupid enough to let him go.

Ephemeral Hope · Oct 2, 2021

gringo2011 said:
I obviously have seen fu** all of any of them but I read reports on draft central and every week he's their best player and getting disposals and goals. I haven't seen any criticism off his deficiencies but perhaps they know more. He seems a pro kid as well. I don't get why you wouldn't give him a go in a pretty unknown draft. It seems insane.

Wouldn’t he just be another Bytel? We have enough trouble fitting in Bytel as a pure inside mid who can’t do other things. Owens and Windy provide other side roles and I assume we’re going a faster silky type for our first round. Not opposed to Trudgeon but just wonder whether he sits in the 2s for ages then gets delisted

Jack Stevens · Oct 2, 2021

I'd love Coffield to spend the preseason buddied up with McKenzie. We could be sitting on an elite wing/running half back if he could get his conditioning cherry ripe.

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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part II

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